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Old 26th November 2012, 13:15   #136
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Quite an emotional outburst there. Tickled my funny bone, sorry.

Picking up the pieces and being consistent is what Kimi Raikkonen also did, albeit a little further back - but I haven't heard anyone calling his 2012 season "magical".

It's all about perspective. Vettel was defending a lead of 13 going into the last 3 races of the season (with 75 points available). And he still won the title after being dead last on the first lap in 2 of those 3 races. If Alonso had done it, fans would've called it "magical", tenacious, gritty and what not. Because Vettel did it, he's just lucky.
Was that emotional? I thought I was very well composed.

Anyway, funny you mention it. I too think Kimi drove excellently all year but he did have some qualifying issues earlier in the year (and his little picnic - though I found that very funny). I don't have stats in hand to seem how many times Grosjean out qualified him. But to finish 19 races in points and not DNF even once is no mean feat. He is my favorite driver in the field.

SV was lucky indeed but when you say that for anyone it doesn't mean it was all luck. As they say luck favors the brave. He was brave and thus got lucky too. Having a huge tangle with Senna on lap one and still being able to continue (and not get a penalty) was very very lucky. Or would you say he tangled in such a way that it ended Senna's race but did no more than some body damage on his car?

At Abu Dabhi, he first tangled with Senna and damage a part of his front wing. He then crashed into the DRS styrofoam to damage it further. He drove strongly after that to take advantage of the safety car. I think even RBR thought that they had over-achieved considering the position they had started.

BTW, I am not a Alonso fan either though I will acknowledge but my feelings for Lewis and Vettel are more on the -ve side than being neutral.
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Old 26th November 2012, 13:35   #137
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

While this thread is specifically about the SP F1 race discussions will naturally happen on who is the better driver

In my view, in the current crop there are 3 top of the line drivers HAM, VET and ALO

While it is possible to say that Alonso is the best driver because he managed 2nd with a mediocre car, it would be showing only part of the picture

There are several factors that helped him maintain the lead for most of the season: race craft, strategy, luck, team completely focused on him etc

The question to be asked though is why does he have a mediocre car in the first place. He has had enough time at Ferrari to make it the best with the full support and financial backing of the company

MSC took a team that had not won a championship for many many years and dominated the sport for 5 long years. That is greatness (I say it although I am no fan of his...)

From the 3 mentioned above, I would rate all of them equally. Is VET a deserving winner, oh absolutely. I have no doubt about that. He never let go of any chances and when Adrian Newey got over the double diffuser design legacy issues and gave him a truly superb car, he dominated the proceedings with one race win after the other

I must add at the end that I am not a big fan of VET either. I am a fan of the Iceman "Leave me alone, i know what I am doing!!'
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Old 26th November 2012, 13:37   #138
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Having a huge tangle with Senna on lap one and still being able to continue (and not get a penalty) was very very lucky. Or would you say he tangled in such a way that it ended Senna's race but did no more than some body damage on his car?
I don't think Vettel deserved a penalty there. There was a Force India to Vettel's left (Di Resta) and Senna was further back from Di Resta on the left, so my guess is that he could not see Senna in his mirrors. When they arrived at the corner, Di Resta yielded to Vettel as Vettel was ahead and Senna made use of that opportunity to sneak up inside Di Resta. I don't think Senna is to blame either.

I could be wrong, my opinion is based on what I remember from the broadcast.

Vettel was lucky it didn't end his race.

I read elsewhere that the mixed/wet conditions that Ferrari/Alonso fans prayed for is what helped Vettel ultimately. After the damage he suffered, Vettel was not quick enough in dry/drying conditions and had high tire wear. The cooler rainy conditions helped him nurse the car home.

Agree about Kimi. He had a splendid season - beating 2 McLarens, a Ferrari and a RB in the WDC I also think he did Vettel a huge favour by driving off the track at T1, lap 1 ruining his own race, but ensuring he didn't take out the WDC contender.
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Old 26th November 2012, 13:48   #139
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Is anybody else a fan of karun chandok now, as a commentator?
Really good mix of on track, and background tidbits.
And also quieting down Slater on occasion.
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Old 26th November 2012, 14:02   #140
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If ever an indian mclaren fan came close to shedding a tear, it was last night.
Same here. Oddly I knew Lewis will DNF this race. Check his previous history. Win-WNF-Win-DNF-Win-DNF. After so much bad luck throughout the time at McLaren this was bound to come.

I honestly hope Lewis keeps all the bad luck at the McLaren and starts afresh with Merc. Top 3 in 2013 WDC will be a good start. I love McLaren but the present drivers are uninspiring so no support from me for 2013 WDC. 2013 WCC of course.

Last edited by akshay380 : 26th November 2012 at 14:03.
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Old 26th November 2012, 14:41   #141
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Is anybody else a fan of karun chandok now, as a commentator?
Really good mix of on track, and background tidbits.
And also quieting down Slater on occasion.
Whoever has endured Steve Slater is a fan of Karun. Well, Karun is very knowledgable and very informative. I would have been his fan irrespective of Steve Slater.
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Old 26th November 2012, 14:46   #142
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

What an awesome race . Filled to the gills from start to end . Lap 1 chaos , Vettel spinning out , man that was scary . Hulk was the man of the day , sad about the incident , but he was the best yesterday , unmatched race pace . Schumi vs. Iceman was fun . So was the U- turn . Indeed Button showed consistency , took the last race .
Happy for Seb ! He is a fighter , a well deserved champion .
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Old 26th November 2012, 15:01   #143
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It was an amazing race. A fitting finale to the season!

Enough has been said about Vettel and Alonso. I was immensely impressed by Massa's drive. He's had quite a roller coaster of a season, and to see him put in a brilliant drive was heartening. I personally love the feisty Brazilian's driving style!

It's just a pity that Hulk had to go out the way he did. A SFI victory would have been unreal!!

Can't wait for Albert Park next year!
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Old 26th November 2012, 15:26   #144
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I could be wrong, my opinion is based on what I remember from the broadcast.

Vettel was lucky it didn't end his race.
I watched the race review by Alan Mcnish on Sky sports. From that it looked like SV was at fault. I couldn't watch that again but here's a live clip again.



Watch around 50 secs. SV had 2 hits. First spun him around. Second was a big one - when Senna gets entangled with him & Perez at the same time. I will say SV was extremely extremely lucky that his car held together.

Though after watching this clip, I am again not sure if he could have been penalized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I read elsewhere that the mixed/wet conditions that Ferrari/Alonso fans prayed for is what helped Vettel ultimately. After the damage he suffered, Vettel was not quick enough in dry/drying conditions and had high tire wear. The cooler rainy conditions helped him nurse the car home.
True. A dialogue I heard in some movie - "There are two tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want. Other is getting it."

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Is anybody else a fan of karun chandok now, as a commentator?
Really good mix of on track, and background tidbits.
And also quieting down Slater on occasion.
I wasn't going to watch the last, the most anticipated race of the season with that idiot (Slater) blabbering in the background. Watched it on that link Pavan posts. No ad breaks and better commentary kind of made up for watching on the small window. Plus much better post race analysis.

Last edited by asr245 : 26th November 2012 at 15:31.
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:06   #145
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Kimi Raikkonen :

"I went off at the last corner on lap 52 as I couldn't see well with my visor being dirty and fogged up," said Raikkonen, who finished in 10th position to become the only driver to have finished all races in 2012.

"Where I went off you can get back on the track by going through the support race pitlane, but you have to go through a gate.

"I know this as I did the same thing in 2001 and the gate was open that year. Somebody closed it this time.

"Next year I'll make sure it's open again..."



Courtesy : autosport.com
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:07   #146
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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2. He did overtake Kobayashi under yellow flags just before the final turn (don't know which lap) but Kobayashi immediately dived into the pits. Not sure what the rules say about that but it was a definite overtaking maneuver under yellow flags. The red & yellow flag Pat Fry mentioned was a few turns before this, and that too included a yellow flag. But Seb didn't overtake there.
First there was a slippery flag, then a green flag. That's when he started to overtake Kobayashi. There was a yellow flag at the next turn, but Vettel was almost 3/4ths side by side by then, and it appears that Kobayashi had given him room to overtake. Also Kobayashi's lap times may be relatively slower and stewards may have considered all these factors.

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- Hamilton has been quoted saying
...

I think he's right about that. Most of the new drivers still need to learn on how to overtake cleanly. Compare that to Kimi's move on MS and you could see how very very close it got but still gave enough room to each other.
I wouldn't put Hulkenberg in same category as Perez, Maldonado, Grosjean etc. He is much more sensible racer than those guys. Remember last race, when Kimi overtook him at the sequence of turns after T1 at Austin. It was a clean overtake where both drivers gave each other respect and room.

From Hamilton, it sounds a bit silly if he is upset because of lack of apology. Was there an apology from Hamilton in Canada 2008 when he rammed into Kimi's back in the pit lane?

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Is anybody else a fan of karun chandok now, as a commentator?
Really good mix of on track, and background tidbits.
And also quieting down Slater on occasion.
Yes, he is very balanced, gets the strategies right almost all the time. Normally he is also very diplomatic in correcting Slater, but yesterday he was pretty blatant in asking Slater to shut up
I remember in 2008 Brazil also he was spot on to pick that Lewis had got past Timo Glock.

Last edited by SilentEngine : 26th November 2012 at 16:14.
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:59   #147
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
It's all about perspective. Vettel was defending a lead of 13 going into the last 3 races of the season (with 75 points available). And he still won the title after being dead last on the first lap in 2 of those 3 races. If Alonso had done it, fans would've called it "magical", tenacious, gritty and what not. Because Vettel did it, he's just lucky.
Very well said. Couldn't agree more with you and that and that post race comment from Alonso,warranted being called "Black Magic"

Lots of discussions went on about attitude earlier and how is this for attitude,from a certain someone - “As for the drivers’ (title) it is lost,". "I don’t want to head off for a race, hoping that my rival has to retire. That is not the way in which I want to win the title.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:57   #148
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
First there was a slippery flag, then a green flag. That's when he started to overtake Kobayashi. There was a yellow flag at the next turn, but Vettel was almost 3/4ths side by side by then, and it appears that Kobayashi had given him room to overtake. Also Kobayashi's lap times may be relatively slower and stewards may have considered all these factors.
3/4th means he hadn't overtaken and overtaking completed after the yellow light. I will agree that in the heat of the moment SV (plus rain) may not have seen it and Kobayashi dived into the pits straight after, so it would have been harsh to penalize SV.

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Very well said. Couldn't agree more with you and that and that post race comment from Alonso,warranted being called "Black Magic"

Lots of discussions went on about attitude earlier and how is this for attitude,from a certain someone - “As for the drivers’ (title) it is lost,". "I don’t want to head off for a race, hoping that my rival has to retire. That is not the way in which I want to win the title.
I couldn't find that quote from Alonso in the post race conference. When did he say that?

And IIRC, that quote was from some one (in Newey's words) "a certain german who decided to play dirty".

Let's not get into who says what. Most of the top drivers whine when things don't go their way. Be it Alonso or Vettel. Another example:

From http://pitpass.com/48087-QA-with-Sebastian-Vettel

Quote:
It was drizzling since the start of the formation lap and it was quite slippery in turn four, we knew that. Maybe he forgot. The same thing I mentioned about the fact that in turn one I had to back out of the situation because your angle just becomes narrower. If he was on the inside, which I suppose - I haven't seen the footage - BOOM and I was the car that he used to stop himself
Sorry SV. Bruno was already there on the inside line. Next time check if apex is there for taking or not. Racing incident ruled - fine but no way Bruno was at fault.
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Old 26th November 2012, 18:15   #149
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I couldn't find that quote from Alonso in the post race conference. When did he say that?
The comments in bold were from Michael Schumacher in 2006 Japanese GP post his retirement.He conceded the title to Alonso there itselt stating "That is not the way in which I want to win the title"

I was merely comparing that to what Alonso had to say in his post race brief at Brazil GP -"I was hoping something might happen to him or Button which would allow us to reach our goal"
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Old 26th November 2012, 18:19   #150
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Peace!

Its probably us who are still arguing about petty stuff. Lets start a thread for countdown to OZ and wait... It was a brilliant season and hoping for an equally brilliant season or even better next year!

Now dont complain about Alonso not giving Vettel a hug already

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