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Old 26th November 2012, 18:25   #151
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

For all the banter between Ferrari/Alonso/Vettel fans, in my opinion the hero in yesterday’s race was Massa. If not for giving up the 15 seconds gap with Alonso, he actually had the chance to fight Button for a win.

A lot of folks have ended the season strongly – Perfect for an exciting 2013!
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Old 26th November 2012, 18:28   #152
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Note from Mod: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the board experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

Last edited by GTO : 27th November 2012 at 16:36.
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Old 26th November 2012, 20:57   #153
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
For all the banter between Ferrari/Alonso/Vettel fans, in my opinion the hero in yesterday’s race was Massa. If not for giving up the 15 seconds gap with Alonso, he actually had the chance to fight Button for a win.

A lot of folks have ended the season strongly – Perfect for an exciting 2013!
Absolutely. It was great to see Massa on the podium after a long long time. Interlagos seems to bring the best out of Massa and for good reason too. Here's hoping his race form from Brazil continues throughout next season.
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Old 26th November 2012, 21:35   #154
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
For all the banter between Ferrari/Alonso/Vettel fans, in my opinion the hero in yesterday’s race was Massa. If not for giving up the 15 seconds gap with Alonso, he actually had the chance to fight Button for a win.

A lot of folks have ended the season strongly – Perfect for an exciting 2013!
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Absolutely. It was great to see Massa on the podium after a long long time. Interlagos seems to bring the best out of Massa and for good reason too. Here's hoping his race form from Brazil continues throughout next season.
Like I said, for Austin it was a slap in the face to ferrari management.
Yesterday, it was a kick to the groin.

But you gotta say this. He was happy enough to be on the podium at home.

But next year ought to be killer!


Any clues/grapevine as to where kobayashi may end up?
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:48   #155
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Any clues/grapevine as to where kobayashi may end up?
Things are most definitely not looking good for him :(

http://news.yahoo.com/kobayashi-sets...36995--f1.html

I'm surprised FI is looking for drivers with money. I thought Mallya's stake sale would have appeased all concerns.

I also wonder whether the reason for Kobayashi being kicked from Sauber is due to pure financial reasons ? I mean Perez finished only 6 points above KK this season. I don't see how a 6 point difference lead to him being picked by McLaren.

Last edited by D33-PAC : 27th November 2012 at 12:08.
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Old 27th November 2012, 12:31   #156
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Like I said, for Austin it was a slap in the face to ferrari management.
Yesterday, it was a kick to the groin.

But you gotta say this. He was happy enough to be on the podium at home.

But next year ought to be killer!


Any clues/grapevine as to where kobayashi may end up?
Superb.

Alonso certainly does not deserve the championship with all the support he gets from the spineless wonder called Massa.
One wonders how can Massa be so timid and submit to Alonso.
To his credit Massa drove really well. Massa is well on his way back to form and it is really unfortunate that he will never be allowed to win races in 2013 I guess (only if Alonso is far below or has crashed out).

One should be man enough to win the race on his own, not wait for someone to give the tow in qualy or break the gearbox. My 2 cents.
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Old 27th November 2012, 15:16   #157
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
I watched the race review by Alan Mcnish on Sky sports. From that it looked like SV was at fault. I couldn't watch that again but here's a live clip again.



Watch around 50 secs. SV had 2 hits. First spun him around. Second was a big one - when Senna gets entangled with him & Perez at the same time. I will say SV was extremely extremely lucky that his car held together.

Though after watching this clip, I am again not sure if he could have been penalized.
To me that looked like vettels fault prima facie but may be the stewards werent bold enough to give him a penalty for fear of upsetting the championship outcome. Any such move from crosjean and co would have been awarded a drive through without second thought.
Anyway for a moment till vettel got going again i thought it was all but over. Time and again interlagos and its famed weather turn out heartstopping thrillers. For once the action through out the pack was too much that we saw only about a third off it. Would have been mighty pleased if force india have won the race.
Look out for stoic expression on massa seniors face when vettel goes off, ?thinking about retribution of 2008.
Alonso need not be disappointed with not being champion, the season only added more to his legend and might just have two more titles in him before he goes.
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Old 28th November 2012, 10:26   #158
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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To me that looked like vettels fault prima facie but may be the stewards werent bold enough to give him a penalty for fear of upsetting the championship outcome. Any such move from crosjean and co would have been awarded a drive through without second thought.
Anyway for a moment till vettel got going again i thought it was all but over. Time and again interlagos and its famed weather turn out heartstopping thrillers. For once the action through out the pack was too much that we saw only about a third off it. Would have been mighty pleased if force india have won the race.
Look out for stoic expression on massa seniors face when vettel goes off, ?thinking about retribution of 2008.
Alonso need not be disappointed with not being champion, the season only added more to his legend and might just have two more titles in him before he goes.
Is this REAL..! Why would the Stewards do something to take upon the wrath of the good old Ferrari

The year clearly showed how Ferrari lost the plot due to confined effort on one Single driver. They were so desperate to get the WDC for Alonso, they forgot the Constructors. Lot is been spoken about their dirty tactics the whole season. Were they trying to create another Schumi out of Alonso...? IMPOSSIBLE, Alonso aint got it in him to join the league of Schumacher the legend.

Many reviews showed Vettel coming out clean in the last race, lot was spoken about the Yellow flags, but no one spoke about the Green lights..! RBR has all the reasons to celebrate as they have been outstanding as a team and giving equal opportunities to both the drivers unlike Ferrari.
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Old 28th November 2012, 11:43   #159
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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To me that looked like vettels fault prima facie but may be the stewards werent bold enough to give him a penalty for fear of upsetting the championship outcome. Any such move from crosjean and co would have been awarded a drive through without second thought.
Agree a 101% with that. Another controversy was the last thing needed in the championship decider.

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
The year clearly showed how Ferrari lost the plot due to confined effort on one Single driver. They were so desperate to get the WDC for Alonso, they forgot the Constructors. Lot is been spoken about their dirty tactics the whole season. Were they trying to create another Schumi out of Alonso...? IMPOSSIBLE, Alonso aint got it in him to join the league of Schumacher the legend.
You have got to stop worshiping MS as if he's some god. Or at least stop throwing that at us in every 2nd post.

While I personally feel constructors championship should be more important for the team, but almost every other team values WDC higher because of higher accolades they receive because of that. Everyone remembers Hamilton winning 2008 WDC with Mclaren but how many remember that Ferrari won the constructors that season or that they won constructors in 1999? And you cannot focus on both drivers when one driver is leading the championship and the other is fighting to get in points. Any person would a brain would put all effort on winning the championship they had a chance at.

And please watch Alan McNish's race preview on Sky sports before you comment on the yellow/green lights. There were 2 yellow lights/flag conditions on the track at that moment - first as you have probably seen was followed by a green (no overtaking there). It was the 2nd which is being talked about where Vettel overtook Kobayashi, and I think most agree that Vettel probably didn't see it and had no chance of giving the place back as Kobayashi pitted immediately after. No penalty deserved or given. Ferrari ain't complaining. Chapter closed.

Last edited by asr245 : 28th November 2012 at 11:48.
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Old 28th November 2012, 11:56   #160
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Opinions differ on whether Vettel should've won the 2012 WDC or Alonso. That to me seems a very subjective debate. Having been fairly neutral to any specific driver so far (maybe a bit towards Schumi in the past) but a keen follower nevertheless, my thought is - WDC is for the driver/ car combo. Alonso had a reliable car and he drove great (can't take anything away from him). Vettel had a not-so-reliable car and he drove great (why take anything out of his efforts?). So in my view Vettel has an edge since he managed to eke out the championship being a great driver in a less reliable car. Hats off. I'll be looking forward to 2013 now.

A separate thought - I was thinking afterward but found it unable to understand Alonso's absolute look of dejection (as if something was snatched away from him) after the race. Going into Sao Paolo, it must've been very clear to him that only misfortune or blunders by others can hand him the championship. So expectations would've been set already. Was he dejected that he drove well, his team mate helped but still couldn't win because enough misfortunes didn't happen to others? Disappointment, I can understand after a tough season, but the look of dejection, I am not able to.
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Old 28th November 2012, 12:35   #161
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And you cannot focus on both drivers when one driver is leading the championship and the other is fighting to get in points. Any person would a brain would put all effort on winning the championship they had a chance at..
Particularly when the other driver is (or was) not performing as expected. No team had two drivers who could have been WDC this year. So, focusing on one driver whether blatantly of hushed-up is completely justified. (We should accept that Jenson is not really WDC capable driver, JUST a one-off WDC, courtesy Ross Brawn).
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Old 28th November 2012, 16:53   #162
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Agree a 101% with that. Another controversy was the last thing needed in the championship decider.



You have got to stop worshiping MS as if he's some god. Or at least stop throwing that at us in every 2nd post.

While I personally feel constructors championship should be more important for the team, but almost every other team values WDC higher because of higher accolades they receive because of that. Everyone remembers Hamilton winning 2008 WDC with Mclaren but how many remember that Ferrari won the constructors that season or that they won constructors in 1999? And you cannot focus on both drivers when one driver is leading the championship and the other is fighting to get in points. Any person would a brain would put all effort on winning the championship they had a chance at.

And please watch Alan McNish's race preview on Sky sports before you comment on the yellow/green lights. There were 2 yellow lights/flag conditions on the track at that moment - first as you have probably seen was followed by a green (no overtaking there). It was the 2nd which is being talked about where Vettel overtook Kobayashi, and I think most agree that Vettel probably didn't see it and had no chance of giving the place back as Kobayashi pitted immediately after. No penalty deserved or given. Ferrari ain't complaining. Chapter closed.
Facts cant change my dear friend, you got to live with it

Alonso never deserved the WDC nor did Ferrari deserved the Constructors championship this year with their dirty tricks.

Please take a look at the below video for a clear footage and explaination regarding the furore over passing under yellow flags.


Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 28th November 2012 at 16:54.
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Old 28th November 2012, 19:53   #163
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

I guess its this video that was released today by the Spanish media that causing the furore.

It shows Vettel clearly passing the TR, he is even using the KERS down the straight. It will be interesting if Ferrari appeals, they have a deadline of 30 Nov to submit a protest. But this video looks interesting!

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Old 28th November 2012, 19:59   #164
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Opinions differ on whether Vettel should've won the 2012 WDC or Alonso. That to me seems a very subjective debate. Having been fairly neutral to any specific driver so far (maybe a bit towards Schumi in the past) but a keen follower nevertheless, my thought is - WDC is for the driver/ car combo. Alonso had a reliable car and he drove great (can't take anything away from him). Vettel had a not-so-reliable car and he drove great (why take anything out of his efforts?). So in my view Vettel has an edge since he managed to eke out the championship being a great driver in a less reliable car. Hats off. I'll be looking forward to 2013 now.

A separate thought - I was thinking afterward but found it unable to understand Alonso's absolute look of dejection (as if something was snatched away from him) after the race. Going into Sao Paolo, it must've been very clear to him that only misfortune or blunders by others can hand him the championship. So expectations would've been set already. Was he dejected that he drove well, his team mate helped but still couldn't win because enough misfortunes didn't happen to others? Disappointment, I can understand after a tough season, but the look of dejection, I am not able to.

Because he lost it to Vettel in 2010, and with things looking so optimistic after lap 1, he had even greater hopes. If I was Alonso, I'd be upset about losing to a 25 year old kid too.

It's a shame Grosjean's idiocy cost Alonso his WDC. Alonso knows despite his effort, like someone here said, 10 years from now people will only remember the WDC of 2012.

Anyway, I think Alonso has received more respect this season than Vettel. Also, Vettel could never be a 1/5 of the remarkable individual Alonso is.
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Old 28th November 2012, 20:21   #165
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I guess its this video that was released today by the Spanish media that causing the furore.

It shows Vettel clearly passing the TR, he is even using the KERS down the straight. It will be interesting if Ferrari appeals, they have a deadline of 30 Nov to submit a protest. But this video looks interesting!

I hope there's no controversy. WDC being decided by a controversy would kill all the excitement of such a fantastic season. Though I agree it's very very interesting.

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Anyway, I think Alonso has received more respect this season than Vettel. Also, Vettel could never be a 1/5 of the remarkable individual Alonso is.
I don't like Vettel but I don't think Vettel deserves that statement. They are equally whiny or at least Alonso was till a couple of years ago. Maybe he's matured enough now. Vettel might too.

And Vettel too had a few run ins with NK & alternator failures, so attributing his loss to those crashes (especially Japan) is a bit weak. Instead, had Ferrari done a 2nd pit stop for him at Canada, he might have finished ahead of Vettel - translating to couple of more points for him and a couple less for Vettel - and there you have Alonso as WDC. And this is all before talking about Ferrari's did upgrades. He drove fantastically all year but expecting Kimi was the only one to finish all races - which is no mean feat even in modern F1.
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