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Old 20th November 2012, 16:34   #16
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I don't think Fernando is handling the pressure too well either. How can Massa out-qualify him by such a margin in the 2nd last race?!
It is very strange. I dont think its presure. Fernando did not do any mistakes in the qualifying lap. James allen stated that Alonso raced with the new diffuser and it wasn't a good decision. Massa had the old diffuser and it seemed to work better. I feel Ferrari just went the wrong direction in selecting the FW/RW/Diffuser combination for Fernando. They have just been playing around the combinations in the last 3 or 4 races.
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Old 20th November 2012, 16:47   #17
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Yes, Alonso was running a new diffuser in USGP while Massa was on an on older spec. The new parts Ferrari brought for Alonso's car did more bad than good

I am worried as Ferrari is bringing more parts for Brazil!

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It is very strange. I dont think its presure. Fernando did not do any mistakes in the qualifying lap. James allen stated that Alonso raced with the new diffuser and it wasn't a good decision. Massa had the old diffuser and it seemed to work better. I feel Ferrari just went the wrong direction in selecting the FW/RW/Diffuser combination for Fernando. They have just been playing around the combinations in the last 3 or 4 races.
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I don't think Fernando is handling the pressure too well either. How can Massa out-qualify him by such a margin in the 2nd last race?!
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Old 20th November 2012, 17:52   #18
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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You don't say. My heart was racing so fast after the US GP that I had trouble sleeping in the first place What a mindblowing event it was.



C'mon guys, we are all gentlemen here. Let's pray for a clean entertaining race without talk of "taking out" drivers unfairly.
GTO, you got me wrong, I only said hitting the bed and not sleeping. I think I would have dozed off an hour or so after ruminating the race for a longish time . Who knows

There is no gentlemanly act in breaking the gearbox seal, Felipe can change his helmet design to include an obedient sheep.

Martin Whitmarsh's comment was spot on :
"I'm not criticising anyone for what they do. Team principals have to decide how they run their teams and it's very clear that Ferrari are very focused on Fernando.
"In fairness it works for Fernando because, lest we forget, when Fernando was with us it was not doing those things that meant that Fernando left us.
"You all have to go racing the way you see fit."

I think his Ferrari contract had these clauses engraved when he came in and Massa was driving so well in the race. Alonso was struggling, I was having a small hope that Jense would catch them both

Btw did you guys hear the limiter kicking in Jenson's car when he was on DRS behind Kimi ?

Last edited by polopm : 20th November 2012 at 17:54. Reason: What Felipe can have on his helmet !
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Old 20th November 2012, 18:18   #19
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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I wouldn't be really surprised if something like this happens.. Seeing the Gearbox penalty that Massa took in US, there are no more limits to my imagination on how far Ferarri would go to make Alonso get the WDC. If that happens, I just hope Webber takes out Alonso too
What Ferrari did was very logical and a great call in the end.
This was not done only so Alonso gained 1 place, but so that he didnt lose a potential 2-3 places by starting on the dirty side.

What Ferrari will do will be within the rules of F1 and in true team spirit.
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Old 20th November 2012, 18:43   #20
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Didnt redbull also pull something similar with a wing from webbers car on vettel's?
and THAT too backfired, with webber outpacing vettel?

Old axiom, if it aint broke, dont fix it?
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Old 20th November 2012, 18:47   #21
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

All the top 6 drivers have something to fight for in the last race. And then there is the 2nd spot in Constructors that is up for grabs if McLaren can win. 14 points advantage from a pair of competent cars is not really impossible.
  • 13 points between Vettel and Alonso, which we all know very well.
  • 16 points between Kimi and Hamilton for 3rd, with McLaren being capable of winning and Lotus not in a position currently to ensure a guaranteed 6th.
  • 4 points between Webber and Button, I guess this would be the most difficult one to predict now.

As Lewis mentioned, he doesn't have much to lose now but Vettel has a lot to lose and that would definitely give an advantage to anyone when being aggressive with Vettel who might have to deviate from his usual style to ensure he brings the car home safely. BTW, any driver need to catch up with Vettel first to get this advantage and not many seem to be able to do it without a rain or SC intervention.
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Old 20th November 2012, 19:39   #22
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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All the top 6 drivers have something to fight for in the last race.
Also the fight for the 5th place in constructors championship. Mercedes have been trying hard to lose the position. They aren't in the best forms either with not scoring in the last 5 races. A freak podium for Sauber would move them to 5th.
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Old 20th November 2012, 23:12   #23
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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What Ferrari will do will be within the rules of F1 and in true team spirit.
Wow! There is absolutely no chance that a team who in past has violated every norm of sportsman spirit will do so in future. What they did may not be illegal but going so far to say that its done in true spirit makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 20th November 2012, 23:48   #24
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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What Ferrari did was very logical and a great call in the end.
This was not done only so Alonso gained 1 place, but so that he didnt lose a potential 2-3 places by starting on the dirty side.

What Ferrari will do will be within the rules of F1 and in true team spirit.

Nobody agrees to dis-agree with this

Its a cheap tactic that gave Alonso an advantage, else he would have easily finished in bottom 5. Ferrari are not a TEAM, but a manufacturer who want their driver to win the WDC at any cost , as they have already lost the Constructors.

Never had respect for Alonso for his Attitude since his Renault & Mclaren days. Thats known to all. Not a Champion Material to say.
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Old 21st November 2012, 00:51   #25
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

While the constructors decides the revenue share percentage, the WDC is worth far more to any team/media/fans.
Most people/fans will be able to name the WDCs for the past 15 years from memory, the constructors..? very few. I for one, cant.
You ask any team to choose either.. they will always pick the WDC.
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Wow! There is absolutely no chance that a team who in past has violated every norm of sportsman spirit will do so in future. What they did may not be illegal but going so far to say that its done in true spirit makes absolutely no sense.
Think you are not aware of what Mclaren/Renault have done in the past and been penalised for. But lets not stray. Google it.

Domencali is the most transparent team boss Ferrari have had. He was honest and I agree with his reasons.

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Nobody agrees to dis-agree with this

Its a cheap tactic that gave Alonso an advantage, else he would have easily finished in bottom 5. Ferrari are not a TEAM, but a manufacturer who want their driver to win the WDC at any cost , as they have already lost the Constructors.

Never had respect for Alonso for his Attitude since his Renault & Mclaren days. Thats known to all. Not a Champion Material to say.

I think you also forget Massa mentioning he did a dummy start from the dirty side and he felt it was like starting in the wet. http://thef1times.com/news/display/06983

Cheap? On the contrary, he did it knowing what others would say and the media backlash (Which was far far less than expected mind you). You think other team bosses will openly admit it was the right thing to do?

Let me give you a cricketing example, I hope you follow the game.
When an umpire "offers the light" to the batsman at the end of day's play when the batting team are not in a commanding postion and they take it. What is that? Cheap and not in the spirit of the rules?

Alonso's attitude is a matter your opinion and you'r entitled to it.
But who's attitude do you like then?
Shumi..for almost putting Barrichelo into the wall? For crashing into Villenueve in 97?
Senna.. for deliberately driving into Prost?
Kimi.. "for giving the media sh**"?
Vettel's.. for being a cry baby and making big issues out of anything when he doesnt win?
Hamilton's... for posting telemetry data on a setup call he took himself? (see what he's like when a team mates beats him)
Webbers..For wanting the team to favour him in 2010 when he was leading Vettel and this year he refuses to help his team mate?
Button? For signing with Williams and then going back on his word to cancel it?

All Champion drivers are bad losers. Its part and parcel of what makes them how good they are.
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Old 21st November 2012, 01:19   #26
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Ferrari did what they had to do. to them for exploiting that.

By the way, I did not like Alonso before this season either. But I became his fan this season -- you simply cannot dislike a guy with that much determination, focus, and perseverance IMHO.

Sure he used to be dislikeable, but he has changed and I can notice his humbleness. And he is nothing compared to that brat Vettel who has an HRT to blame with a car like that .

Also, of course they want their guy to win the WDC at any cost. That's how they should be, if your goal isn't to be #1, then F1 is a waste of time and money IMHO.

Alonso is driving a car that's qualifying 5-8th every race and he's competing with the #1 car at Brazil.... simply amazing this guy.


Viva El Nano!!!!

Last edited by D33-PAC : 21st November 2012 at 01:20.
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Old 21st November 2012, 10:12   #27
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Guys, lets please discuss the Brazilian GP on this thread. All USA GP debates can take place on the other thread (2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas). Thanks!
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Old 21st November 2012, 10:20   #28
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Think you are not aware of what Mclaren/Renault have done in the past and been penalised for. But lets not stray. Google it.
I dont quite get what you mean here. Two wrongs make a right?
If Renault and Mclaren did something wrong, does it give license to Ferrari to do something wrong. Does it make the wrong that Ferrari does right?

Also, I dont get what sort of comparison being done. Kimi for being a bad talker, Vettel for being a cry baby, we are talking about ethics here and what has happened is wrong. This has nothing to do with what others do. This was a decision taken by Ferrari to give them an unfair advantage at the cost of others.
Taking light by batsmen at time when they are in a weak position is not sportsman like. Nobody says that it upholds the spirit of the game. It is unethical. And if some one does something unethical in one sport that does not wipe of the responsibility of sportsman/teams in other sports.

What Ferrari did was unethical and shameful. Giving parallels that some else also does it does not make Ferrari clean. Also, doing a crime and talking publicly does not absolve you of the crime and the responsibility it comes with.

And also I am completely lost as to how it is being claimed that Ferrari will never do anything wrong.
What is wrong is wrong

Last edited by zoombiee : 21st November 2012 at 10:35.
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Old 21st November 2012, 11:25   #29
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

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Guys, lets please discuss the Brazilian GP on this thread. All USA GP debates can take place on the other thread (2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas). Thanks!
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Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
I dont quite get what you mean here. Two wrongs make a right?
If Renault and Mclaren did something wrong, does it give license to Ferrari to do something wrong. Does it make the wrong that Ferrari does right?

Also, I dont get what sort of comparison being done. Kimi for being a bad talker, Vettel for being a cry baby, we are talking about ethics here and what has happened is wrong. This has nothing to do with what others do. This was a decision taken by Ferrari to give them an unfair advantage at the cost of others.
Taking light by batsmen at time when they are in a weak position is not sportsman like. Nobody says that it upholds the spirit of the game. It is unethical. And if some one does something unethical in one sport that does not wipe of the responsibility of sportsman/teams in other sports.

What Ferrari did was unethical and shameful. Giving parallels that some else also does it does not make Ferrari clean. Also, doing a crime and talking publicly does not absolve you of the crime and the responsibility it comes with.

And also I am completely lost as to how it is being claimed that Ferrari will never do anything wrong.
What is wrong is wrong
Have replied in the COTAS thread.
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Old 21st November 2012, 11:42   #30
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Default re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

What kind of updates can we expect Ferrari to bring for Alonso ?

Also, back to the Massa slashing Vettel's tires question -- if it does happen, or any sort of intentional race sabotaging occurs, which culminates in a WDC for Alonso, what kind of reprimanding can we see from the stewards ?

Also, can't they make it look accidental ? What if Massa is asked to blockade ?
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