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Old 26th November 2012, 02:25   #121
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Well,why all this negativism about Vettel's win?

RBR became so dominant only during the last 6 races right?Maybe Ferrari should have focused much more on the performance aspect of their car rather than worrying what flag to paint on their cars during race weekends or how LDM can score brownie points for his politcal aspirations through GP weekends

..and how long could have Schumacher held Sebastian Vettel behind.It wasnt like he was trading laptimes with Vettel and lifted off to let him through.It was going to happen anyway.

IMHO,RBR need to look at what Mark Webber is trying to achieve with them.He squeezed Vettel at the start and almost took him out post Safety car.Compared to him,Massa was top class.He was a terrific team player today playing Alonso's wingman role to perfection.Good to see him put in a very solid performance in the later half of the season.

Having said all that,irrespective of who we think is deserved champion or undeserved champion,the writing is clear on the wall,the record books.15 years down the lane,nobody will give 2 hoots about who drove well on the race day.History will say Sebastial Vettel - Youngest 3 times WDC at SauPaulo 2012
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:38   #122
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

A fitting finale to the season… I am not a fan of Vettel, but I do feel that he was indeed the more deserving candidate out of the two – especially with the way he managed to come up the pack. Excellent job!

Some thoughts:
  • While all talks are around Vettel and Alonso, I must say that Jensen had a calm and composed race. Excellent wet weather skills.
  • Hamilton was extremely unlucky to go out in such a manner. And Hulkenberg really ruined a rare podium finish for Force India.
  • Massa and Webber worked as perfect team players. Webber got a Thank you message via radio when he allowed Vettel to pass. And Massa slowed down from a 13-15 seconds gap to give away the second place to Alonso.
  • Some great wheel-to-wheel skills on display from Michael and Kimi.
  • IMO, Michael had a good race yesterday. Though he gave away the position pretty easily to fellow German (Vettel)
  • Mr. Slater was completely out of sync yesterday. Alonso complained on debris on the track, and Mr. Slater heard it as something to do with tyre temperature. He was lucky to have Karun to correct him.
  • And lastly, the Kimi moment – drove off-track and went into an old closed track. Glad that he returned back to f1
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:13   #123
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Quote:
Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
I'm also upset that Shumacher had to give it up to Vettel -- what a blatant display of sympathy and nationalistic feelings. But I doubt he would have held up that Red Bull for long.
Would you have rather seen Schumi taking out Vettel by trying to block him from overtaking? Given the tyre wear on Mercedes cars and the wet conditions, that would have been very much possible if Schumi tried to defend his position.

I wanted to see Lewis and Nico fight till the finish line. Its a pity they touched. If they had stayed on, Alonso wouldn't have had a chance, even if Vettel retired yesterday.

Quote:
Yes, cars don't drive themselves, but I simply don't see what is so great and awesome about SV when 20 guys are fighting with knives while 2 guys are privileged enough to bring a nuclear bomb to every race.
If you meant the blown Renault engine by nuclear bomb, then it was on Kimi's Lotus, not on Seb's RBR.

The above remark is valid only for the 2000-2002 seasons where Michael dominated and won WDC just because of the car. That was a time when Ferrari could have still won if Michael decided to park the car during pitstop to take a 1 min nap.

This season was definitely much closer with atleast 10-12 cars capable of challenging each other. Number of Grand Prix winners in 2012 clearly proves that. RBR and McLaren were on a league of their own for the last few races but definitely not the entire season, that is something you've got to give credit to their engineers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go-pg View Post
Wow, that's your argument? For your kind information, Massa and Alonso are in the same team. Michael is driving for Mercedes and not Redbull. You cannot have 4 drivers letting another car go by because a. they are sister team b. he is the same nationality and you like him.
I'm not getting into the ethical part of whether Massa gifting the position to Alonso was right or wrong. Its their team decision and thats it, and most likely Webber would have done the same thing if the situation demanded. If you argue that this is a team sport and both drivers should be working in tandem supporting each other instead of racing betweeen them, then we should only be having Constructors Championship, no WDC.

For your information, Vettel needed only P7 to win the WDC which he was already in and was faster than Schumacher which is how he caught up with MSC in the first place.

One thing I'm sure any driver would have wanted to avoid yesterday was to take out Vettel or Alonso from the race due to their mistake and thats probably reason enough for Schumi to not block Vettel during the overtaking, given the visibility and grip levels during that stage. I don't think Schumacher or Mercedes gained anything by holding up Vettel facing the risk of taking out Vettel. Schumacher doesn't work for Ferrari to risk his car and aid Fernando.

I know Alonso fans were probably hoping Schumi would take out Vettel and gift Alonso the championship but thats something Schumi did avoid.

Quote:
The team kept me constantly updated about Vettel and, towards the end, I was hoping something might happen to him or Button which would allow us to reach our goal.
Source: Selected driver quotes (Alonso) from www.formula1.com

This is certainly not the best way for someone to hope to get the WDC. He got the chance today because Lewis retired and Nico's penalty put him below Alonso. Now he wanted something to happen to Button and Vettel too. If something happens to every other driver at every race, even Karthikeyan can be a WDC!
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:29   #124
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

I think all the negativity towards Vettel is just sour grapes for Ferrari/Alonso loyalists.

No doubt Alonso was very good this season, but in the end they were just not good enough to clinch the title. Alonso should thank McLaren/Lewis for the way they took themselves out of contention in many races - without which Alonso wouldn't probably have got close to the title. I even think Lewis might've won the WDC, but for bad luck.

IMO, the RB was not a dominant car like it was in 2011. They were truly dominant in Japan/India/Korea but otherwise they were beatable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
This is certainly not the best way for someone to hope to get the WDC. He got the chance today because Lewis retired and Nico's penalty put him below Alonso. Now he wanted something to happen to Button and Vettel too. If something happens to every other driver at every race, even Karthikeyan can be a WDC!
"Something happening to others" is what helped Alonso quite a lot in his "magical" 2012 season. Maybe the magic was making something happen to others.

Last edited by StarrySky : 26th November 2012 at 08:33.
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:34   #125
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Some answers! McNish examines Vettel' pass under yellow.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:01   #126
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

A great entertaining & nerve racking race. Fit for a season finale. Slightly disappointed that Seb won the title but he & RBR deserved it. Ferrari just didn't deserve it. But I do have questions over 2 incidents (watched Sky sports race report by Alan Mcnish).

1. 1st lap at T4: Sky sports report clearly showed that Vettel was on the outside of the track while Senna was on the inside. Vettel decided to turn for the apex without looking who was there. Once again Vettel was very very lucky not to end his race there as he ended Bruno Senna's. I am quite sure that any other race this would have been a penalty. Or any other driver and it would have been a penalty. And if NH could get a penalty, so should have SV.

2. He did overtake Kobayashi under yellow flags just before the final turn (don't know which lap) but Kobayashi immediately dived into the pits. Not sure what the rules say about that but it was a definite overtaking maneuver under yellow flags. The red & yellow flag Pat Fry mentioned was a few turns before this, and that too included a yellow flag. But Seb didn't overtake there.

Once again, I feel, SV was lucky to get away with these infractions, as probably the stewards didn't want to create any controversy.

Other points:

- Massa blocking for Alonso was quite obvious.

- Kimi almost exiting the track was the only funny thing in a tense race.

- Hamilton has been quoted saying
Quote:
Hamilton told reporters, having started from pole position in his last race for McLaren. “That’s what happened when you find yourself racing with the less experienced. I feel okay though and I feel happy for the team to get the win (with Jenson Button). But it was a little unfortunate…”
I think he's right about that. Most of the new drivers still need to learn on how to overtake cleanly. Compare that to Kimi's move on MS and you could see how very very close it got but still gave enough room to each other.

- Still, great race by Hulk. I have been watched him during his A1 GP days and was sad to seem him leave Williams. Never believed in Di Riesta's hype and it seems that it's true. Hulk's pretty much had the upper hand during the 2nd part of the season.

- Adrian Newey was asked to compare this season to some other similar experience from the past. He went back to 1994 and mentions how they won the constructors, and were in contention for WDC "until a certain german driver played dirty". Damon Hill was amongst the 3 from Sky interviewing him.

- It looks like the era of Horner, Newey & Vettel - the new Todt, Brawn & Schumacher of this decade. I certainly hope that 2013 is not another 2011 and someone else wins the title. I still want to seem how SV does in a struggling car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
To top it off we have Steve Slater.

Alonso radios to the pits, that there's debris on the track. Slater hears it as not getting heat in the rear tyres. lol. Thank god Karun is there.


That's Steve Slater for you.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:11   #127
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

While I never liked Vettel much, I have to say he gained respect by the way he has driven yesterday and also when he started from the pits. Yes, he has a great car - and he drove it well. If Vettel was doing this only because car was superior, Webber should have been close to him in the points which is not the case. He ended at 6th position (179 points).

And for Alonso, truly a great drive all through the season which put him in 2nd place. Hope Ferrari will get a faster car for 2013.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:47   #128
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Here's what Kimi "I-know-what-I-am-doing" Raikkonen had to say about his little picnic:

Quote:
"Where I went off you can get back on the track by going through the support race pitlane, but you have to go through a gate.

"I know this as I did the same thing in 2001 and the gate was open that year. Somebody closed it this time.

"Next year I'll make sure it's open again..."
Maybe it's time for a new t-shirt with "I knew where I was going" slogan?
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Old 26th November 2012, 10:40   #129
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

WOW!! What a race.
Congrats to Vettel for his 3rd WDC title.

A great drive by Hulkenberg. Maybe he could have waited for another lap to overtake Hamilton.
Also, Hulkenberg probably slowed down a bit to avoid getting into the back of the Caterham, which resulted in him getting off the line and spinning into Hamilton.

I really felt the Stewards were a little harsh with him to give him a drive through penalty.
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Old 26th November 2012, 11:22   #130
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

If ever an indian mclaren fan came close to shedding a tear, it was last night.
What a start, WHAT a start!
The Mclarens firmly stamped authority over the pack, and I just loved the way jenson dictated his stand, saying that rain is letting up.
Sebastien vettel.
Tremendous car, and when something goes wrong.....how much luck can a guy have???
I am not questioning, and not even interested in his capabilities or otherwise, but such a shunt, and still the car is undamaged enough??

Forgetting that, I was so hyped up, even when hulk was leading.
I mean, ok if hammy is not going win IF its an FI taking the pole.

Devastation!!!!!

I have no doubt that Hamilton would have gone on to win EASY.

Hulk's drive-through?
This is coming from a hard-core, hit-the-bone Mclaren fan, so you can imagine how heavy this feels, but it did not look to be anything other than a racing incident.
The back slid out on a patchy track.

But what pain it brought.
I literally slid out of my seat to the ground!

Vettel, well, he did JUST enough to ensure.
Hardly an achievement.
Alonso?I cant believe I am saying this as i abhor ferrari and alonso in equal parts, but the sense of loss was so apparent in his face.

Jenson showed amazing grit, not something seen since he was with BAR.
I am quite alright with him being no. 1 on the team next year.

Massa, this time a kick to the groin of ferrari management.

Kimi....Its what I do when i get to my society at some odd hour, and try the rear entry JUST to check if its open.
"oh, its closed, no matter. I ll take a U turn......on to a 300kph race track!!"
Awesome panache, man!

Perez, nothing yet.


Hammy Buay!
I am going to follow you to mercedes.
Mercedes will be my preferred standby winners!
I have a feeling there is something we do not know, and the sheer force of talent matched to a willing team MAY show us a rossi-m1.

Fingers are crossed, and thank you for the memories.



PS: I watched the last race a day late, and Hammy won. This time I tried, but could leave it alone and watched it with a 20 minute lag on record.
Oh man!!

Last edited by mayankk : 26th November 2012 at 11:24.
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Old 26th November 2012, 11:25   #131
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

Not an Ideal race for Vettel but he pulled it through!

Being a Hamilton fan I feel really sad that he had to leave Mclaren in such a fashion.

Hulkenberg's ambitious move when he knew the track is wet with back markers around ruined his and Hamiltons race. Not only that, Mclaren lost the opportunity to be 2nd in constructors which means a lot of $$$ lost because of one driver.

Alonso in my opinion was the best driver on the track whole season with a reliable car but not amongst the best cars.
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Old 26th November 2012, 11:35   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
"Something happening to others" is what helped Alonso quite a lot in his "magical" 2012 season. Maybe the magic was making something happen to others.
I beg to disagree with your "magical" stuff. Yes, he may not even be in the hunt if it were not for his rivals falling of left, right and centre. His season was considered magical because he was always there to pick up the pieces when rivals made mistakes. That's the best anyone can do when your car is simply not good enough to compete with title contenders. You can call him lucky, but then so has been Vettel. Safety car surely helped him get 3rd (instead of 4th) in Abu Dabhi. Not to mention drivers in front of him tended to crash and burn. Yesterday, he made a stupid mistake of not looking into his mirrors an crashing into Senna. I still say, any other race or any other driver and that would have meant penalty. Or had it been a Ferrari and no penalty was given, people would have been crying foul about FIA helping Ferrari.

You might say Alonso had Massa to move over whenever required but I will say SV had the STRs to do that and yesterday, even Webber and MS seemed to be willing to do that.

All in all, it took a great effort from Alonso to keep the fight alive till the last lap. But Ferrari faltered (with their dud updates) and gave Vettel/Newey the chance they had been look for. And they took it.

Slightly disappointed with the outcome but still a great finish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Hulk's drive-through?
This is coming from a hard-core, hit-the-bone Mclaren fan, so you can imagine how heavy this feels, but it did not look to be anything other than a racing incident.
The back slid out on a patchy track.
I remember a similar incident from Spa 2010 when Vettel went into the side of JB under braking. IIRC, that was a wet race too and SV lost it while braking side by side with JB and kind of t-boned him. JB was out. SV continued but got a drive through.


JB as no. 1? On his day - yes. Not on his day - NO. His setup problems would have me in a tizzy on every race weekend.


PS: Didn't see anyone post this but Caterham take back 10th from Marusia with Petrov's 11th. With Pic confirmed, who's F1 career did that result save? Heikki or Petrov?

Last edited by asr245 : 26th November 2012 at 12:03.
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Old 26th November 2012, 12:09   #133
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I beg to disagree with your "magical" stuff. Yes, he may not even be in the hunt if it were not for his rivals falling of left, right and centre. His season was considered magical because he was always there to pick up the pieces when rivals made mistakes. That's the best anyone can do when your car is simply not good enough to compete with title contenders. You can call him lucky, but then so has been Vettel. Safety car surely helped him get 3rd (instead of 4th) in Abu Dabhi. Not to mention drivers in front of him tended to crash and burn. Yesterday, he made a stupid mistake of not looking into his mirrors an crashing into Senna. I still say, any other race or any other driver and that would have meant penalty. Or had it been a Ferrari and no penalty was given, people would have been crying foul about FIA helping Ferrari.
Quite an emotional outburst there. Tickled my funny bone, sorry.

Picking up the pieces and being consistent is what Kimi Raikkonen also did, albeit a little further back - but I haven't heard anyone calling his 2012 season "magical".

It's all about perspective. Vettel was defending a lead of 13 going into the last 3 races of the season (with 75 points available). And he still won the title after being dead last on the first lap in 2 of those 3 races. If Alonso had done it, fans would've called it "magical", tenacious, gritty and what not. Because Vettel did it, he's just lucky.
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Old 26th November 2012, 12:24   #134
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what am amazing GP it was, i was out of my couch many times when huck banged Hamilton on the rear, i wish huck could have finished on podium.

but i never saw how alonso overtook massa, was it team orders again???

loved Hamilton's tribute to mclaren on his helmet's
how i also wish shumy would have a finished on podium on the his last race.
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Old 26th November 2012, 12:36   #135
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Default Re: 2012 F1 - Sao Paulo Brazil

What a race!! What a race!! What an extremely fitting finale to a rather boring season!
I was on the edge of my seat almost the entire race, especially with Hulkenberg's performance. I guess experience does count, had he been less rash, in most probability, would have seen Sahara Force India at the podium, if not pole. I think they were a bit harsh on him for his "mistake" with Hamilton, a drive through was not justified, IMO.
Vettel deserved his WDC.
Months of no racing...what am I to do with my weekends then?
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