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Old 16th March 2013, 11:29   #1
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Unhappy The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

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The 'Ring is For Sale' (and it's scaring me)...

If you haven't heard already, the Nürburgring is for sale. The whole thing, lock, stock and karussell. Depending on your viewpoint, it's either an amazing opportunity or a woeful state of affairs that illustrates everything wrong with the government and politicians of today.

But what's scaring is imagining who is looking at this big for sale sign and thinking that it's an opportunity.

Jens Lieser, the state-appointed liquidator, has gone on record to say that the whole thing is for sale, not just the concrete jungle of arena, museum and impotent rollercoaster. A potential buyer could walk away from the table with the F1-spec Grand Prix circuit and the humongous money-maker that is the 20.8km Nordschleife. Maybe it will be sold in pieces, maybe it will be sold in one chunk. Not only is this some prime real estate, but it's practically the centre of the automotive universe.

And how many parties are interested? It began with 50, and at the last count we're down to "between 5 and 10" serious buyers. "And not a single Oligarch or Sheik amongst them,' we're assured. Wonderful(!).


" There's no way the government can hang on to something like the 'Ring. The EU are all over it. From the EU's point of view, the German government has been caught red-handed spending taxpayers' money on a private project to the benefit of only a handful of 'businessmen'. Domestically the Nürburgring is competing with other circuits like Oschersleben, Hockenheim and Lausitzring. Within the EU it's butting heads with greats like Le Mans, Silverstone and Monza. When Government-owned businesses are competing against the private industry, it all has to be above board and 100% transparent. The only thing clear about the Nürburgring in the last few years is that it's swallowed over 400 million euros of taxpayers' money. That's not fair, is it? It doesn't matter that it was wasted on a bunch of crap like the rollercoaster and the boulevard.

They are going to sell it. They're going to wipe their hands of the whole sorry mess, take a paltry cash sum (offers are in the region of only €125 million for the whole thing) and by doing that they're going to throw the whole region to the wolves of independent capitalism. All I can hope for is a fair and equal battlefield, where the local hotels and businesses like Rent4Ring get to offer their products on an equal footing to the new track owners... wish us luck! "
Source : http://bridgetogantry.com/2/index.ph...t-s-scaring-me

Last edited by Rehaan : 18th March 2013 at 20:40. Reason: Putting quoted content in a quote box. Thanks.
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Old 16th March 2013, 11:47   #2
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

I think the ring has been in trouble for quite some time now. There has been a petition to save the Ring from the private investors who caused the ~350 mil. debt. More information here -

http://savethering.org/
https://www.facebook.com/SaveTheRing
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Old 16th March 2013, 14:06   #3
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

I wish they had waited for a few years to go ahead with the sale. With the EU region still in recession I fear the entire area might be bought up by real estate developers instead of being bought by someone who would preserve the legendary circuit for its historical significance.

I wonder if I will be able to live my dream of driving on this historical track one day after the sale goes through. Fingers crossed!

Last edited by amrisharm : 16th March 2013 at 14:08.
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Old 16th March 2013, 16:06   #4
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Tragic.

I am rather surprised that no Oligarch or Sheik is in the running! Who knows, it might be finally owned by an Indian or maybe a Chinese or South American!

It would really be tragic if they dont preserve it as a racetrack and instead, chop it to pieces for real estate...
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Old 16th March 2013, 16:06   #5
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

Mummy, why don't I have €125 million spare. I would love to buy my own track. As a business investment it makes a lot of sense if you get a lot of track days and do some judicious construction inside the track confines.

I just wonder who is going to buy the 'ring. Just hope they do not treat it as a real estate investment project.
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Old 16th March 2013, 23:23   #6
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

Hope whatever happens the track would not change or be redesigned !!!

Also how does one make money off the track ? Fees on track events are great, but do they really provide a return on investment let alone cover the sunk cost.

If its being sold then there's a damn good reason it's being sold!!
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Old 17th March 2013, 02:07   #7
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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
Hope whatever happens the track would not change or be redesigned !!!

Also how does one make money off the track ? Fees on track events are great, but do they really provide a return on investment let alone cover the sunk cost.

If its being sold then there's a damn good reason it's being sold!!
In south Africa I knowsomeone who owned a smaller private rare track. They tried to have events every weekend or so if possible (open track days, quarter mile drag weekends etc). What they did was charge for entry and/or charge for stalls. Yes, it was a lot easier because that was a small track and hence the money is much smaller. With the 'ring, income needs to be much larger which explains the various failed plans. However, in theory it is just scaling up and having a greater variety of plans.

With the vast amount of land space involved, it seems to be that the simplest solution is real estate, which will be a shame.
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Old 17th March 2013, 08:52   #8
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

I belive the 'ring was taken out of the F1 scenario due to safety issues. Any way a new owner could change a few things - and get it back to F1 worthy?
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Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
In south Africa I knowsomeone who owned a smaller private rare track. They tried to have events every weekend or so if possible (open track days, quarter mile drag weekends etc). What they did was charge for entry and/or charge for stalls. Yes, it was a lot easier because that was a small track and hence the money is much smaller. With the 'ring, income needs to be much larger which explains the various failed plans. However, in theory it is just scaling up and having a greater variety of plans.

With the vast amount of land space involved, it seems to be that the simplest solution is real estate, which will be a shame.
Nurburgring is not just a track, but widely regarding as the one of the best testing grounds (I'm sure you've heard one Mr James May complaining about this!). Even Hyundai recently set up shop near the 'ring to set up an R&D facility - to improve their cars' infamous ride and handling traits. All this testing could bring in big money - and in a very organised way!
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Old 17th March 2013, 09:11   #9
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

Completely agree with CrAzY dRiVeR. The Nurburgring is the sole testing spot for car companies like Skoda , VW , Nissan GT-R etc. The Ring will surely stay there if it's not gonna be bought by a non auto enthusiast. Any guy who wants more money will surely keep the ring intact. Reason: The Nurburgring is the sole racing track in Germany and building a next track will surely make that guy bankrupt. They will also get money for organizing F1 and other GT championships.

Cheers,

Achyuth
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Old 18th March 2013, 10:13   #10
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

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Originally Posted by Achyuth Vaibhav View Post
Completely agree with CrAzY dRiVeR. The Nurburgring is the sole testing spot for car companies like Skoda , VW , Nissan GT-R etc. The Ring will surely stay there if it's not gonna be bought by a non auto enthusiast. Any guy who wants more money will surely keep the ring intact. Reason: The Nurburgring is the sole racing track in Germany and building a next track will surely make that guy bankrupt. They will also get money for organizing F1 and other GT championships.

Cheers,

Achyuth
I guess Germany has two tracks: Nurburgrng and Hockenheim.
Hockenheim has also hosted F1 several times as recently as 2012.
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Old 18th March 2013, 10:52   #11
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

Always thought Nurburgring was in Luxembourg, thanks to F1, until i read MotoNanu's post and then did a quick search. This is what i found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg_Grand_Prix

F1 has some funny policies and funnier loopholes.

Last edited by slicvic : 18th March 2013 at 10:53. Reason: added link
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Old 18th March 2013, 12:07   #12
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I belive the 'ring was taken out of the F1 scenario due to safety issues. Any way a new owner could change a few things - and get it back to F1 worthy?

Nurburgring is not just a track, but widely regarding as the one of the best testing grounds (I'm sure you've heard one Mr James May complaining about this!). Even Hyundai recently set up shop near the 'ring to set up an R&D facility - to improve their cars' infamous ride and handling traits. All this testing could bring in big money - and in a very organised way!
I know all about nurburgring and it's legendary testing facilities. So many supercars have been honed here and a good time around the track is a badge of honour.

However, I have to assume that testing is ongoing and the income from that would not increase dramatically unless the owner went out soliciting business with all the automobile companies.

Thus my view that doing a lot of events (corporate days, open track days etc) will be necessary at the very least for keeping the track going. Unfortunately, barring a lot of races on the track (f1, moto gp, world sbk, touring cars etc) and the associated income from that, the only way to earn enough from the track is to get other revenue sources in (what the government seems to have spent on with the various ideas). Which is why I worry that real estate may be the most profitable venture for the new owners.
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Old 18th March 2013, 12:41   #13
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Tragic.

I am rather surprised that no Oligarch or Sheik is in the running! Who knows, it might be finally owned by an Indian or maybe a Chinese or South American!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
Mummy, why don't I have €125 million spare. I would love to buy my own track. As a business investment it makes a lot of sense if you get a lot of track days and do some judicious construction inside the track confines.

I just wonder who is going to buy the 'ring. Just hope they do not treat it as a real estate investment project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Nurburgring is not just a track, but widely regarding as the one of the best testing grounds (I'm sure you've heard one Mr James May complaining about this!). Even Hyundai recently set up shop near the 'ring to set up an R&D facility - to improve their cars' infamous ride and handling traits. All this testing could bring in big money - and in a very organised way!
There would be many people ready to buy the ring at that price, well IMO it is not 'only' about buying, but also 'maintaining' the track (which is very expensive & one of the reasons for the debt)

May be BMW-Audi-Merc should co-partner this buy.

The above car companies use the ring on a regular basis hence they can afford the purchase price & the maintenance cost as well.

Also in the long run they will be able to write these cost off "Development/R&D cost" and benefit tax savings.

Last edited by karan561 : 18th March 2013 at 12:54.
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Old 18th March 2013, 22:32   #14
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

Completely agree with karan561 on this one. Germany should take a leaf out of Japan's playbook. Honda corporation owns the Suzuka circuit where the Japan F1 GP is held every year. On certain occasions, when the track was not available, the F1 GP was held at Toyota-owned Fuji Speedway. This gives a chance to the Big 3 in the german automotive industry to take ownership of this legendary circuit.

The thinking of the government is justified. Maintaining an F1 track requires humongous investment. Even though, enthusiasts may highlight the advantages that a track provides in improving the safety and efficiency of passenger cars, it still does not justify burning the tax payers money.
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Old 19th March 2013, 16:19   #15
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Default re: The Nurburgring is for sale! Edit: Sold to Capricorn Group

The problem that I see is simply one thing, its size, its massive!

Its actually not very good for testing as you cant get good lap times because invariably you make a mistake or two with a corner that you think is actually another one unless you know the track well.

We test at a place called brintingthorpe in the UK and they and the other 2 proving grounds in the UK seem to be doing well because they have many facilities in a smaller space.

They could do with making it smaller so commercially it would work. Though the petrol head in me says its should stay, but money rules and they dont have any right now!
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