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Old 17th May 2013, 03:42   #16
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

Big risk for McLaren.

Given that they are a bit rusty, I would've expected Honda to start off with one of the lower tier teams in the first year while they get up-to-date & up-to-speed with the comptetion

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Old 17th May 2013, 08:33   #17
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

Good to see Honda coming back to F1 and this time doing what they do best. For Mclaren this will be a big gamble, MW has done enough damage already and I hope this deal is not one of them!
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Old 17th May 2013, 09:24   #18
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Mclaren and Senna won those world titles with Honda engines in the eighties...
Yep Senna and Post (to some extent) were drivers who could win championships with the No2 or No3 team / equipment as well. But the current drivers? Who knows lets see.

McLaren in recent times has simply focused on getting the best equipment out there and have had more or less the best machines on the grid for more than a decade. (Irrespective of them winning or not). It was a different world then. Also Honda didn't really exit in Glory though things would possibly have been different a year later.

Again the regulations are once more changing and that though it may help Honda it will remain to be seen.

Jag and Toyota too did not exit well.

The real question would also pertain to how much money Honda is prepared to pump into F1 engine development. Will it go the full distance?

A good news yet, there do remain those who associate McLaren with Honda and the brighter colours and those with Mercedes and the Silver Arrow
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Old 17th May 2013, 09:50   #19
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Yep Senna and Post (to some extent) were drivers who could win championships with the No2 or No3 team / equipment as well. But the current drivers? Who knows lets see.
At the time Mclaren won those titles, Honda was the best engine maker in F1. However, Senna was competitive regardless of car and engine ranking. Honda exited F1 at that time because there was no challenge left for them - sort of nothing to prove...
Quote:
Also Honda didn't really exit in Glory though things would possibly have been different a year later.
The last time Honda was in F1, it was rather mediocre for them. During the heydays of Mclaren Honda, they were the boss! Shows that if you leave a highly competitive arena for some years, its not easy for even the best to regain #1 - whether its engines or drivers :-) As you said, regulations changing has also a large contribution to the difficulties faced...

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The real question would also pertain to how much money Honda is prepared to pump into F1 engine development. Will it go the full distance?
Right. And the fact that engines are getting smaller and turbo-charged makes it more difficult for Honda - they are rather behind on Turbo technology as they always focused on NA gems!
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Old 17th May 2013, 10:48   #20
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

Vodafone has confirmed that their association with the sport as Vodafone McLaren will end at the end of this season. Likely new team name to be Telmex McLaren Honda. (Telmex is a Mexican telecommunications company owned founded by the world richest man - Carlos Slim who also backs Sergio Perez). Expect the Livery to be Red, Blue and Silver.
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Old 17th May 2013, 13:15   #21
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

I have a feeling this will turn out to be alright for McLaren.
With Mercedes as the factory supplier, and Newey being allowed to take advantage of regulations and working his magic, Auto india carried a picture of the McL cockpit in 98, with the caption "Is this where the next world championship winner will be sitting?".
Honda has a few advantages here.
One, they know the philosophy of the team. Two, they've burnt their fingers badly enough in the last outing. Three, they've had a good sabbatical, and have a fair amount of time to work with the team.

This was to be expected. The factory merc has responded very well this year, and I can easily see them winning the championships next year, if not contending fairly hard this year itself. As such, who would they focus on more?

I didnt have access to telecasts in the previous alliance with Honda, only news reports every month in magazines, so i am hoping some magic is unleashed again which I can actually catch live at the BIC.

Also, Mclaren mp412c - Unaffordable
Any AMG mercedes - Unaffordable/unrealistic

Desi tuned honda city with turboed bells and whistles on all feet - 10L (?)
PRICELESS!
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Old 17th May 2013, 13:38   #22
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

Great news and I am personally very happy to see Honda back in F1. This looks to me that it was a decision taken a very long time ago seeing as though Planning in F1 goes atleast 4-5 years ahead.

Honda have stated that the development of the 1.6 litre Turbocharged engines are at an advanced stage already.

Its beneficial that Mclaren have got the first deal and at the moment.....all of Honda's attention and top personnel. I think the reason Mclaren decided against Mercedes is that they want an exclusive engine supplier...For a couple years atleast.

In other news, I hear marussia could be getting Ferrari engines, KERS etc. Starting from 2014.
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Old 17th May 2013, 14:33   #23
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Is this also not the same time as turbo-engines return to F1. Unbeatable combination - Honda + Turbo. remember the 1100+ bhp in the heyday of the turbo.
Would the F1 circus (Bernie & co) allow nearly pure Toluene to be the fuel as was done in the days I am referring to.
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Old 17th May 2013, 14:58   #24
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
Great news and I am personally very happy to see Honda back in F1. This looks to me that it was a decision taken a very long time ago seeing as though Planning in F1 goes atleast 4-5 years ahead.

Honda have stated that the development of the 1.6 litre Turbocharged engines are at an advanced stage already.

Its beneficial that Mclaren have got the first deal and at the moment.....all of Honda's attention and top personnel. I think the reason Mclaren decided against Mercedes is that they want an exclusive engine supplier...For a couple years atleast.

In other news, I hear marussia could be getting Ferrari engines, KERS etc. Starting from 2014.
It's not just the first deal , but also a free deal. It has been reported that Honda livery on the car would cover the cost of the engines. So with Carlos Slim covering the lead sponsor role and with Honda giving free engines, McL can go aggressively hiring key personnel at Telephone number salary. Newey back to McL ,anyone ??
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Old 17th May 2013, 15:01   #25
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

Interesting days ahead, though I was expecting Honda to come in for 2014. Clearly, Mercedes won't be happy as they are forced to continue supplying to McLaren in 2014 under their existing contractual commitment.

Entering in 2014 would have given Honda 2 crucial advantages:
1. The change of rules would mean that the rules of the game were new for everyone and each team would be on the learning curve.
2. They'd have had all of 2013 dedicated purely to developing the 2014 engine while other teams balanced their 2013 development race with the 2014 work.

Against this though, I reckon Honda saw it as being a situation where they can start working now and also observe how 2014 plays out, learning from everyone else's mistakes. Also, they get the chance to study tyre information as well.

What I would be interested in knowing now:
a. What protection does Mercedes have in terms of information that McLaren can legally share with Honda (not that they've been so scrupulous in the past, but hey...)?
b. What is the impact of the engine freeze regulations on Honda?

Interesting times, of course. Will be interesting to see how a potential 4-time champion Vettel (and RBR) face up to the new rules.

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Old 17th May 2013, 15:10   #26
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Originally Posted by polopm View Post
-------snip ----Newey back to McL ,anyone ??
If I found a magic lamp, that's my 3rd wish.
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Old 17th May 2013, 16:38   #27
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

Since we're on the topic of engines. I began to wonder what kind of turbo was it going to be. Single turbo(lag!!???!), bi or quad turbo. I found out that there will be only one turbo & how they will be handling the lag. To those interested here is quote and image from another forum:

Only one turbo is allowed, and it has to be located on the center line of the engine. But HERS (heat energy recovery system) will be part of the package, and it will harvest heat (exhaust) energy, store it, and feed it back into the powerplant when required. Unlike KERS, there is no limit on use and capacity. What that means is that there will be a motor/generator attached to the turbo shaft, and it will collect energy and store it like KERS presently does. But when needed (at low RPM when lag is present) the motor can spin the turbo up to speed, and effectively eliminate turbo lag.
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Old 20th May 2013, 12:35   #28
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Originally Posted by polopm View Post
It's not just the first deal , but also a free deal. It has been reported that Honda livery on the car would cover the cost of the engines. So with Carlos Slim covering the lead sponsor role and with Honda giving free engines, McL can go aggressively hiring key personnel at Telephone number salary. Newey back to McL ,anyone ??
Newey had a "fallout" with mclaren didnt he? Lack of freedom! Their intense corporate structuring has made the likes of Newey, Paddy Lowe and Hamilton quit the company.

I think Newey will stay at RBR and that sort of equates the top team battle in F1. Alonso and probably allison with ferrari, Ross Brawn and hamilton with Mercedes, Newey and Vettel with RBR.

Mclaren are going through some serious changes and I see them have their pocket full of re-developing their team structure. Similar to what Ferrari went through for the last 3-4 seasons. Come 2014, they will hire some top "dawg" designer and technical engineer.
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Old 20th May 2013, 12:55   #29
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
Newey had a "fallout" with mclaren didnt he? Lack of freedom! Their intense corporate structuring has made the likes of Newey, Paddy Lowe and Hamilton quit the company.

I think Newey will stay at RBR and that sort of equates the top team battle in F1. Alonso and probably allison with ferrari, Ross Brawn and hamilton with Mercedes, Newey and Vettel with RBR.

Mclaren are going through some serious changes and I see them have their pocket full of re-developing their team structure. Similar to what Ferrari went through for the last 3-4 seasons. Come 2014, they will hire some top "dawg" designer and technical engineer.
Correct you are Fullrevs.
It's not just the strict "McLaren culture" but also, to be very blunt, they're misers. Ron Dennis lost Newey as it was widely reported back then because he refused to increase his salary even though Newey had more than proven himself many times during the Mika years. Hamilton left as a result of ever changing personal ambition but also because he was taken aback when Ron said he was not going to even match his current salary during contract negotiations citing Financial climate.
Ron feels that the massive resources they provide at McLaren for developing race winning cars more than make up for less competitive salary. It's funny they haven't won a Constructors since 1998 and if it wasn't for Hamiltons talent they wouldn't have won a WDC since 1999 as well. Mr. Dennis needs to have a close look at his Team he so boasts of.
Historically speaking, I personally feel reliability issues have always been the bane of McLaren & not outright performance, if they sort it out they could be extremely competitive. This year is an exception though. The car is poo.

Last edited by Maky : 20th May 2013 at 12:57.
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Old 20th May 2013, 14:38   #30
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Default Re: Honda returns to F1 with McLaren, as Engine supplier in 2015

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Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
Newey had a "fallout" with mclaren didnt he? Lack of freedom! Their intense corporate structuring has made the likes of Newey, Paddy Lowe and Hamilton quit the company.

I think Newey will stay at RBR and that sort of equates the top team battle in F1. Alonso and probably allison with ferrari, Ross Brawn and hamilton with Mercedes, Newey and Vettel with RBR.

Mclaren are going through some serious changes and I see them have their pocket full of re-developing their team structure. Similar to what Ferrari went through for the last 3-4 seasons. Come 2014, they will hire some top "dawg" designer and technical engineer.
Newey left Ron's McLaren. Now it is not. Though McLaren can be clinical, it is much more "human" these days with Whitmarsh and others (I will not say that to Sam Michael who stares like the villain in terminator ).
Hey Ross Brawn may be free next year ? I want them to get back Kimi and kick JB out.
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