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Old 24th May 2013, 18:41   #31
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

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Originally Posted by imidnightmare View Post
4. Why the Vettel hate? Simply because he wins? He's just the best at what he does and like Schumacher before him, that means he'll win a lot more often than he doesn't. Disliking him for being better sounds petty really. I'd much rather watch the same man win repeatedly if he's a genuine great, than watch a bunch of mediocre drivers constantly beating each other because they're all at par. As far as Alonso is concerned, frankly, he's a great, but is also over-hyped. Simple as.

Cheers!
M
I agree with all your listed points there, ROS is a good qualifier isn't he, but I'd like to comment on the fourth.

I may have said hate but now that I think about it, It's not hate. It's dislike. I do not like the man for he has unofficially become, given his streak, the ambassador of the sport effectively replacing MSC. I find this to be unacceptable for simple reasons, He is a childish boy racer. He is a bit spoilt in that he throws fits and begins questioning his engineer('12 team radio) if things don't go his way. Firstly I'd like to respond to your comparison of him with MSC and then my reasons for not liking him.
Michael Schumacher was great not only because he knew how to win but also how to graciously loose. Albeit he was no a saint.
The comparison to Michael Schumacher is undeserving for far too many reasons I'll get into some of them now if I may, MSC raced in an era where we did not have bullet proof reliability. He raced at a time where drivers had to look after various things in the car such as the clutch, brakes, drive shaft and Schumacher would go flat out whilst doing all those things.
Schumacher is an individual who raced well beyond the vehicles potential and managed to get podiums or even wins when it simply wasn't probable pre-1998, Vettel cannot do this. Hell vettel cannot even go flat out lap after lap without making mistakes, this is a statement made by alonso although for political reasons/mind games, but it's very very true.
Schumacher worked with his engineers to turn Ferrari around, people forget Ferrari was poo before Schumacher joined them after Benetton. They had not won for very many years. He worked with his engineers to turn the team around into a race winning outfit. Additionally in later years, He worked with them to get the cars incredibly reliable during his championship streak. Unlike Vettel who takes a poo on his engineers if a single race strategy goes wrong and frankly If I may be so bold in saying, He is where he is thanks to the efforts of one man, Newey.

It is not for reasons he keeps winning, although that makes the sport a bit boring(2011) and doesn't help his case, but because he is for me personally an un-likeable guy. He portrays this very happy smiley character to the press in interviews but isn't one behind closed doors, I've seen this being discussed between sky crew early last year, not that I needed to hear them say that I just felt it.
I do not like him for the same reason I did not like Petrov or Scott Speed, Comes off as a total ingeniuine wordthatcannotuseontheseforums.

Do take note that the above are my reasons for not liking Vettel, I think there are a substantial amount of people who simply do not like him because he keeps winning as you say and/or keeps beating their favourite driver ; ).
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Old 24th May 2013, 19:54   #32
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

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Schumacher worked with his engineers to turn Ferrari around, people forget Ferrari was poo before Schumacher joined them after Benetton. They had not won for very many years. He worked with his engineers to turn the team around into a race winning outfit.
Even though I am a Schumacher fan I have to disagree with this one point. In my opinion the true architect of Ferrari's success during the Schumacher period was Jean Todt. He joined Ferrari in 1993 and the very next year he produced Ferrari's first win in 4 years with Gerhard Berger at the wheel. This was the beginning of Ferrari's comeback. After this he recruited the best people around and made Ferrari what it is.

Oh and yes Schumacher did work better with his engineers than Vettel. Vettel still has a lot of growing up to do.
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Old 24th May 2013, 21:29   #33
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

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Even though I am a Schumacher fan I have to disagree with this one point. In my opinion the true architect of Ferrari's success during the Schumacher period was Jean Todt. He joined Ferrari in 1993 and the very next year he produced Ferrari's first win in 4 years with Gerhard Berger at the wheel. This was the beginning of Ferrari's comeback. After this he recruited the best people around and made Ferrari what it is.

Oh and yes Schumacher did work better with his engineers than Vettel. Vettel still has a lot of growing up to do.
One can't wrong you for saying it started with him, Jean Todt no doubt was one of the architects as you say. However I still feel Schumacher contributed more than simply his talent as a driver on track to Ferrari & this team still wouldn't be where it is today without him most of all.
Schumacher, Jean Todt & Ross Brawn the dream team.
Slightly off-topic, I still feel a tad annoyed at Ferrari for firing him at the end of '06 though & Yes he was fired no matter what Schumacher himself has said in many interviews, all for PR reasons. He later on did admit it wasn't his choice to leave after he joined Mercedes.
I guess it was the right decision though. Montezemolo realised age was catching up with Schumacher...
Oh and I'll stop now as this is the Monaco thread and we've gone off topic totally : P.

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Old 24th May 2013, 22:00   #34
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

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Schumacher is an individual who raced well beyond the vehicles potential and managed to get podiums or even wins when it simply wasn't probable pre-1998, Vettel cannot do this. Hell vettel cannot even go flat out lap after lap without making mistakes, this is a statement made by alonso although for political reasons/mind games, but it's very very true.
I'm normally one of the first to join in on a Vettel bashing session but I must raise my hand on this one. If anything, one of Vettel's few redeeming qualities is his ability to pull out blinders, lap after lap, as we have seen him run away with races leading from the front. I could count on one hand, the number of times Vettel has lost from the lead especially considering how often Webber seems to.

For one, I would not consider Alonso's 2 cents on Vettel's driving credentials. But on the other hand, I still believe and agree with you on the fact that a lot of Vettel's success should be attributed to the genius that Newey is. Throw Vettel into a Ferrari tomorrow against Alonso and I would be interested to see the outcome. Or wait for a year and see Kimi (hopefully) square up against golden boy in the same machinery.

Lets face it, Redbull is built around the kid what with Mateschitz having such a close relationship with Vettel. So when Horner tells me that Vettel has no say in who gets selected as a replacement for Webber, I'd rather believe my boss when he tells me I'm due for an appraisal.
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Old 24th May 2013, 22:25   #35
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That's so very true, you just can't match Slater's passion. Brundle is excellent nonetheless, but he's just boring, lol.


That and the other reason I miss him is for the passion you could glean from his voice during races. No doubt, Slater had a potload of faults and mistakes, I realized that when he mistook DC for Mika Hakkinen when I was just seven years old. But there's more to sports announcing than just technical knowledge don't you think?
Absolutely.
However If you're going to have a go at the current broadcast team for not being anything other than technically informed I would disagree.
As I said it's difficult for me to put into words Mr. Brundles excellence when it comes to colour commentary. I would ask you to watch an entire past season where Slater was commentating and watch the same season once more with Martin Brundle if it's at all possible. You should notice a difference.
Also, Reading from your tone, the fact you've been watching races since a young age listening to him commentating. I feel nostalgia may be playing a part in your feelings towards Slater, which is fair : ).

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Old 24th May 2013, 22:36   #36
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Absolutely.
However If you're going to have a go at the current broadcast team for not being anything other than technically informed I would disagree.
As I said it's difficult for me to put into words Mr. Brundles excellence when it comes to colour commentary. I would ask you to watch an entire past season where Slater was commentating and watch the same season once more with Martin Brundle if it's at all possible. You should notice a difference.
Not at all! They are very well-informed, not disputing that at all. I was just voicing my opinion on Slater v Brundle. But I fear we've gone really here, so how bout we continue this on the F1 thread?
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Old 25th May 2013, 00:03   #37
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

I so badly want to see the waving fingure this time on the podium, Can't wait for the qualifying now. Go vettel Go
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Old 25th May 2013, 00:33   #38
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I so badly want to see the waving fingure this time on the podium, Can't wait for the qualifying now. Go vettel Go
If I'm not mistaken, you must be the only Vettel fan on the forum! Talk about minority, huh? :P
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Old 25th May 2013, 01:50   #39
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

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I'm normally one of the first to join in on a Vettel bashing session but I must raise my hand on this one. If anything, one of Vettel's few redeeming qualities is his ability to pull out blinders, lap after lap, as we have seen him run away with races leading from the front. I could count on one hand, the number of times Vettel has lost from the lead especially considering how often Webber seems to.
You misunderstand, Yes he can from the front. That has 2011 written all over it as I'm sure we all remember. A superior car with free air shouldn't be that hard.
However in race situations where he isn't up in the front, apart from overtaking slower vehicles, hasn't been able to pull of that kind of maneuver(Malaysia '12) but he has improved since then I must admit(Abu Dhabi).
As for Webber although a very nice person, one of the few good people in F1, is simply not in the same league as Vettel as far as raw talent is concerned, Man cannot even secure his pole starts when the lights go out >.<. Oh and how he simply gave away his 2010 WDC lets not forget.

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I so badly want to see the waving fingure this time on the podium, Can't wait for the qualifying now. Go vettel Go
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Old 25th May 2013, 15:10   #40
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

Oh! a shunt for Massa in FP3!

He just went straight into the wall. The wheels locked up heavily under braking and he was a passenger. Very strange though!

Hope the crew will get it all together for Q1.

Edit: It looks like a lot of damage on the car.

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Old 25th May 2013, 15:39   #41
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Very action packed FP3.
Two crashes for Grosjean, both seemed to be driver errors.
Sutil crashed at Massenet, seemed to be due to cold tires.
Massa's crash was very interesting, seemed that something went wrong as both the front tires instantly locked the moment he touched the brakes.

On performance note, Rosberg just seemed absolutely unbeatable, pulling out a blinder of a lap. Vettel seemed to be back on the pace, after being relatively slow on Thursday.
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Old 25th May 2013, 15:44   #42
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Rosberg just seemed absolutely unbeatable, pulling out a blinder of a lap.
He hit the barrier with his left rear just before the tunnel as well. Vettel does look good. And RBR holds back during FP at Monaco. Can't wait for qualifying.
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Old 25th May 2013, 15:46   #43
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He hit the barrier with his left rear just before the tunnel as well. Vettel does look good. And RBR holds back during FP at Monaco. Can't wait for qualifying.
Yep, even with that slight kiss of the wall, he went comfortably quickest, which to me is very impressive.
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Old 25th May 2013, 16:23   #44
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Default Re: 2013 - Grand Prix De Monaco

Around Monaco, the rule of thumb is to kiss the wall to go faster.

Hope the traffic will not be too bad in Q1.
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Old 25th May 2013, 16:43   #45
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Spots of rain being reported in Monaco, an hour or so to Quali!
More rain seems to be coming!



Should make an interesting Qualifying,
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