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Old 3rd August 2013, 14:18   #31
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Default re: Indian F1 Grand Prix: No racing in the foreseeable future

Gents,

2013 Indian Grand Prix tickets now on sale!

So who all are attending and when are you all booking your tickets?
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Old 3rd August 2013, 16:41   #32
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Default re: Indian F1 Grand Prix: No racing in the foreseeable future

As a F1 fan and ardent follower of the sport, i am happy and proud that India was part of the racing calendar, but from day 1 i have been and will be skeptical of its long term commercial viability in India.

For starters no track can ever make money by just hosting a race. What JayPee needs is for one or more of the car companies to use it as a test track. Only then will it have any chance of survival. Also the track needs to be promoted and used for other automotive events. The biggest problem however will be government not granting 'Sports' status to F1. So the taxes and custom duties will be high and car companies will always cry about this given their already stretched financial position.
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Old 10th September 2013, 07:23   #33
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Default re: Indian F1 Grand Prix: No racing in the foreseeable future

Are tickets cancellable and refundable for the Indian GP?
I want to go for this race as it will be the first and last time I can hear the V8's scream , but leaves are an issue.

Regards


EDIT: Got the answer on booking site ,

Note:
  1. Registrations/Tickets once booked cannot be exchanged, cancelled or refunded.

Last edited by tharian : 10th September 2013 at 07:34.
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Old 1st October 2013, 00:59   #34
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Default Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Hi guys,
Being a motorsport journalist for a number of years now, I feel strongly about India losing out on the 2014 Formula One race. I have put together this:

Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

The 2014 Formula One calendar is out. And as announced earlier, the 'circus' will not perform at the Buddh International Circuit (BIC) next year.

It may not be party time yet for some of the new venues since final FIA approvals will have to be got. While I don’t despise the fact that someone else gets to host a race, I am absolutely not happy about the fact that the BIC will be silent during the last week of October in 2014.

I think India could very well have been given a re-look. Yeah, we all know the income tax, customs etc etc guys are all ‘bad’ and want to loot the 'rich' F1 guys of all their money. Whether that is the real reason or something else is, it could have been worked out. Maybe things in India don’t work as well as they do in other places. But it is not that no one knew how things work in India. Let me put it this way: things just work a little differently in India. Bernie Ecclestone had told journalists that people should understand the taxation system in India. The Federation of Motor Sport Clubs of India, FOM etc could have tried talking to the sports ministry. The current sports minister is pretty level-headed and there was one full year from the 2012 race to try and sort things out with various ministries. We all know that one word from the top solves all these things.

Teams can put up with nonsense like personnel sleeping in brothels because there are not enough hotels close to the track during the inaugural Korean GP. The Formula One guys would have waited till eternity to get back to Bahrain despite all the violence. Jenson Button was very nearly ambushed by gunmen in Brazil a few years ago. And god alone knows what else has happened to people elsewhere. Despite all the reasons mentioned above, it’s all hunky dory as far as these places are concerned. But the Indian taxman is the real threat.

Having a race in October 2014 and again in March 2015 is 'said' to cause logistical problems. But knowing how well things work in F1, would it have been impossible?

There was a big furore about more than 20 races being difficult to handle and all that. Assuming all the new venues get FIA approvals, where does that argument stand? Now, the Concorde Agreement is suddenly brimming with 22 races, something the teams are not obviously happy about.

I find the situation most ridiculous. It is extremely unfair for the Jaypee Sports International guys, who have spent considerable time, effort and money to build a good track. Sure, India’s contract will be extended to 2016 instead of till 2015 as originally agreed upon. But a gap of one year will cut the continuity. Even for a well-to-do company like JPSI, money does not grow on trees.

Moreover, it appears that there is money to be made in India. So, can’t people put up with a little inconvenience? Come on, everything in life does not come on a platter.

What do you guys think about the whole situation? Please feel free to correct me if I have gone wrong anywhere.

Regards,
Vivek

Last edited by Rehaan : 1st October 2013 at 17:14. Reason: Adding the text content here itself.
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Old 1st October 2013, 09:13   #35
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Hey Vivek, I feel the same way you do.

But at the end of the day this is business, not some charity event. Your article seems very fueled by emotion which I think says enough.

The way I see it is:

1) Bernie clearly wants to avoid the Rupee slump, which he stated.
2) First inaugural GP will be grand with a lot of attendance -- Bernie clearly stated it is the third one that matters. Combine the trend from 2012 (lower attendance than 2011) with the Rupee slump -- it looks worse.

3) Bernie has to make way for more avenues -- Korea and India are not really favored for a number of reasons among the hard nosed businessmen of F1/CVC.

Something has to go to make way for the Mexican and Russian GP .

Also I don't see a problem with one year -- it's not like the Indian GP is gone forever. Bernie's just flying out of the storm as a businessman and seeking more lucrative opportunities.

I'd do the same if I was him.

Also, I suspect money power has much to do with it. I believe Mexico is backed by the worlds richest man and Sochi is a chance to show off Sirotkin, who is backed by Russian oligarch money.

Lastly, I don't think this should be called a raw deal. This is just business.

Last edited by D33-PAC : 1st October 2013 at 09:18.
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Old 1st October 2013, 10:22   #36
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

True, it is pure money power in Formula One. If only the government had supported the event like in all other events, it could have made things tough for Bernie to drop the event for one year. Remember, only the Indian and British Grands Prix are not government-supported.

Forget all that, most of all, I feel bad for Jaypee Sports International. They have put in so much money.
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Old 1st October 2013, 10:55   #37
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis View Post
Forget all that, most of all, I feel bad for Jaypee Sports International. They have put in so much money.
I wouldn't feel so bad. From what I know, Mayawati practically gifted the land along the yamuna expressway to Jaypee in return for making the expressway. The F1 track was just an economic lever these Jaypee guys used to sell plots, flats and villas. They succeeded pretty well at that.
That being said, I was never confident about F1 doing well in Delhi. The city hardly has any non-cricket sporting culture and F1 is not known at all. The first grand prix became a social do that's why people flocked to the venue. Soon, they got bored after clicking a few blurry pics and tagging themselves on Facebook. By the second grand prix there were only two kinds of people left.
A. The free passes junta.
B. F1 fanatics (a miniscule number)

A race in South India on the other hand..
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Old 1st October 2013, 11:09   #38
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

That is usually the case at many new venues. Like you said, the first year always sees the maximum response. Then it dips for the next two-three years before it begins to pick up again. That is what Bernie told me and a few of my journalist colleagues last year.

But yes, you have a point. The smaller tracks in Coimbatore and Chennai see fairly good response for even national championship races.
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Old 1st October 2013, 14:36   #39
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis View Post
True, it is pure money power in Formula One. If only the government had supported the event like in all other events, it could have made things tough for Bernie to drop the event for one year. Remember, only the Indian and British Grands Prix are not government-supported.

Forget all that, most of all, I feel bad for Jaypee Sports International. They have put in so much money.
I dont see any reason why the government should support an event like this. Government can/should support this only if it brings in money for the country. This seems more the other case. They want government to give them all sorts of goodies, so they can make money. This is a completely private affair its upto the private sector to make it lucrative for Bernie and his friends.
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Old 1st October 2013, 14:56   #40
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis View Post
Forget all that, most of all, I feel bad for Jaypee Sports International. They have put in so much money.
They did make a lot of money from associated real estate deals, though I dont know if they recovered what they actually spent (not on paper). I dont want to get into details of who is in Jaypee, but this is common knowledge also.

As someone else pointed out, it is just business. It may return in a couple of years, by when people may or may not have moved on. Time will tell
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Old 1st October 2013, 15:10   #41
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

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Originally Posted by Mik View Post
A race in South India on the other hand..
that is quite interesting a race in south india would be something else entirely.
Bernie probably came to where he is taking all these difficult decisions which make financial sense with zero emotions involved.
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Old 1st October 2013, 16:24   #42
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Abhishek, you are dead right. You know the passion motor racing has in Chennai and Coimbatore.

JPSI may or may not have recovered the money they spent. But formula one is a profitable thing. Just see the business all hotels, tour operators etc getduring that time.

And I never said our overnment should give money like other countries. They can help when it comes to customs clearances, hassle free taxation stuff or whatever. That will help.

Last edited by Vivekphadnis : 1st October 2013 at 16:27.
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Old 1st October 2013, 16:48   #43
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Default Re: Indian Grand Prix getting a raw deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis View Post
Abhishek, you are dead right. You know the passion motor racing has in Chennai and Coimbatore.

JPSI may or may not have recovered the money they spent. But formula one is a profitable thing. Just see the business all hotels, tour operators etc getduring that time.

And I never said our overnment should give money like other countries. They can help when it comes to customs clearances, hassle free taxation stuff or whatever. That will help.
Slight correction there. Formula 1 is (definitely) profitable for Bernie and (possibly) for the peripheral travel & accommodation business, but there's hardly any organizer or venue turning a profit. The few exceptions are tracks that are hired out round-the-year for various purposes (Barcelona, for example).

Bernie charges an atrocious yearly fee, controls all the TV & advertising rights and the organizers are pretty much left to recoup whatever they can from gate receipts, which almost never break even, forget turning a profit.

Jaypee got into this knowing what they were getting into, and have made their killing elsewhere (real-estate deals made on the back of the F1 event).

Venues round the world are struggling to keep up with the cost of hosting F1, and if India can't afford it, it's time to shut the operation down. As much as enthusiasts like you and me want the race to flourish, we're a minority. Business comes first for everyone involved, fans don't even make it to the priority list, forget being anywhere close to the top of it.
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Old 1st October 2013, 18:23   #44
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Default re: Indian F1 Grand Prix: No racing in the foreseeable future

Yes, the rights fee that has to be paid to host a race is crazy and Jaypee will not be making anything out of the race per se. They get a little out of renting the track for the other national championships, Mercedes Benz driving academy and automobile companies that want to test their cars.

You should see the condition of the sepang track. If a government backed track is struggling, then it is difficult. Anyway, I am hoping india gets other international races. We should not have to depend on just formula one though it is the showpiece event.
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Old 1st October 2013, 19:30   #45
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Default re: Indian F1 Grand Prix: No racing in the foreseeable future

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.....Anyway, I am hoping india gets other international races. We should not have to depend on just formula one though it is the showpiece event.
Exactly! No track can survive on the back on just one yearly event, no matter how top-notch it is. It also helps to keep the track and facilities in good shape if they're used and maintained regularly.

We cannot take a top-down approach to it. We need to start at the bottom of the pile, build a good support base of racing events and then aim for the higher ranks of motor-sport. Novelty wears out fast, and we currently don't have the substance to keep the show going once the novelty factor is gone.
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