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Old 11th February 2014, 00:07   #451
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Renault claim all is well :

Lotus completes shakedown 'without any major problems'
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/144891.html
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Old 11th February 2014, 08:44   #452
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

^

Well! That was a surprise. 100 KM is great indeed. And we will have to believe them on "without any major problems" part as no one else was there.

If the engine issues are sorted, expect Redbull to bounce back quick as well.
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Old 11th February 2014, 08:44   #453
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Dont know really whom to believe here or Renault is so good, one lap was good enough for them to be sure that All izz well

The 2014 F1 Season-ja.jpg

Source: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/0...powered-teams/


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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Renault claim all is well :

Lotus completes shakedown 'without any major problems'
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/144891.html

Last edited by anachronix : 11th February 2014 at 08:46.
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Old 11th February 2014, 23:55   #454
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Dont know really whom to believe here or Renault is so good, one lap was good enough for them to be sure that All izz well
Friday they did 1 and Saturday they completed the maximum allowed 100km run

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112470
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Old 12th February 2014, 00:16   #455
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

That was a super recovery from Renault if they managed to run the puny V6 at full steam around Jerez for those 20 odd laps

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Friday they did 1 and Saturday they completed the maximum allowed 100km run

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112470
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Old 13th February 2014, 14:11   #456
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Not sure if the rule changes for the new season has been posted before. I have tried here to consolidate the changes here in comparison with the 2013 season.
I have adapted the data from planetf1.com

This is a lot more restricted to me: 600bhp? a maximum of 100lts fuel for the whole race? heavier car? only 4 engines?

I think we will be seeing conservative driving henceforth. Have to wait and watch.
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The 2014 F1 Season-f1-2014-rules-change.jpg  

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Old 13th February 2014, 17:05   #457
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This is a lot more restricted to me: 600bhp? a maximum of 100lts fuel for the whole race? heavier car? only 4 engines?

I think we will be seeing conservative driving henceforth. Have to wait and watch.
I think your chart provides most of the answers to your concerns.

IMO, the engine power hasn't gone down much. Earlier, it was ~750bhp@18k rpm. Now its ~600bhp@15k rpm with an additional 150bhp available for 30 seconds per lap which is roughly one-third of a lap in terms of lap time. Since ERS is now integrated with the engine mapping, power from the ERS can be used throughout the lap by releasing it only when required. 600bhp limit was just a way of ensuring that the teams have no choice but to invest in ERS R&D. F1 is one of the avenues where some of the future road car technologies get developed and tested first and this is one of the reasons why big manufacturers are financially justified in their involvement with the sport.

Since peak power comes at a lower rpm now, it is supposed to have better efficiency and lesser strain on the engines enabling longer engine life, the two other rule changes for the 2014 season.

2014 cars will certainly be slower than the 2013 cars because teams would be cautious regarding the new regulations but that would be the case with any major change in regulations. Once they are in the groove, these cars could be as quick as the 2013 cars.
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Old 13th February 2014, 18:43   #458
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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I think your chart provides most of the answers to your concerns.

IMO, the engine power hasn't gone down much. Earlier, it was ~750bhp@18k rpm. Now its ~600bhp@15k rpm with an additional 150bhp available for 30 seconds per lap which is roughly one-third of a lap in terms of lap time. Since ERS is now integrated with the engine mapping, power from the ERS can be used throughout the lap by releasing it only when required. 600bhp limit was just a way of ensuring that the teams have no choice but to invest in ERS R&D. F1 is one of the avenues where some of the future road car technologies get developed and tested first and this is one of the reasons why big manufacturers are financially justified in their involvement with the sport.

Since peak power comes at a lower rpm now, it is supposed to have better efficiency and lesser strain on the engines enabling longer engine life, the two other rule changes for the 2014 season.

2014 cars will certainly be slower than the 2013 cars because teams would be cautious regarding the new regulations but that would be the case with any major change in regulations. Once they are in the groove, these cars could be as quick as the 2013 cars.
On the fuel consumption part, I found this article which is a good read.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/01/1...ghest-f1-rule/

If you see this, it is quite evident that the fuel consumed in all races is atleast 120kg- now I know that the old spec is a bit of a guzzler in comparison with the new one. Adding to the additional weight of KERS, the whole set-up is a lot more challenging to attain the high speeds.

All these new challenges only increase our expectations and like you I too look forward for the new season!!
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Old 13th February 2014, 18:46   #459
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

ERS failure will amount to about 8 seconds a lap... which essentially means a DNF sooner or later.
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Old 14th February 2014, 08:02   #460
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Quote:
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2014 cars will certainly be slower than the 2013 cars because teams would be cautious regarding the new regulations but that would be the case with any major change in regulations. Once they are in the groove, these cars could be as quick as the 2013 cars.
As you rightly pointed out the power output hasn't gone down much. The IC engine makes more than 600 hp (I read some reports which said 700 BHP for the Merc) and the two Motors supplement with 150 hp and this is available from 0 rpm. So the combined output lower down the rev range will be even higher than the V8. The new powertrain is a work of art!

But, will the cars be as fast as 2013 in races? I don't think so! Apart from the 100 kg fuel limit per race, the restriction of maximum flow rate of 100kg/hour means the drivers will have to manage the speed on Sundays and this will make the cars slower. This will be very evident on the power tracks like Spa, Monza or Suzuka. But on the plus side, racing at Monaco could get faster. I am imagining rally style slides around the tight sections on full electric power.

Jokes apart, I hate that restriction on the flow rate. Even if a driver manages to save up fuel towards the end, he still won't be able to lay down all the power due to this. I am hoping that we don't get to hear many calls on the radio to save fuel. It will be much more annoying than the calls to save tyres.
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Old 14th February 2014, 09:56   #461
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But, will the cars be as fast as 2013 in races? I don't think so! Apart from the 100 kg fuel limit per race, the restriction of maximum flow rate of 100kg/hour means the drivers will have to manage the speed on Sundays and this will make the cars slower.
May be a dumb question - Aren't the turbochargers capable of giving better fuel efficiency than the equivalent naturally aspirated ones since the turbo unit is not consuming fuel directly?

Also, the power output from the ERS unit is also in addition to the max fuel flow rate.

The way I see it, a 2013 car had mainly one source of power - the fuel. In contrast, 2014 car has 3 sources - fuel, ERS batteries and the turbocharger. The output from the last two sources is in addition to the 100 kg/hr fuel flow rate.

Quote:
Jokes apart, I hate that restriction on the flow rate. Even if a driver manages to save up fuel towards the end, he still won't be able to lay down all the power due to this. I am hoping that we don't get to hear many calls on the radio to save fuel. It will be much more annoying than the calls to save tyres.
Even in 2013, we've heard many calls to save fuel. There were many drivers who were running on vapours and didn't do the slow down lap so that they'll have the mandatory fuel sample left in the car. Situation is not going to be too different. If we go by the 2013 stats, there were only 3 races where the fuel flow exceeded 100kg/hr.
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Old 14th February 2014, 16:18   #462
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

I read a rumour somewhere (probably on a comment on JA.com) that fuel saving will mean that engines would rev to at most 12K during the race, and they had been designed as such to provide maximum power in that given range.

I hope that's not the case. I will really miss the sound of high revving engines. 18K rev-limit was itself a mood spoiler.
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Old 14th February 2014, 19:03   #463
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Renault may request the FIA to give them permission to make modifications to the engine for the sake of reliability.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112519
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Old 14th February 2014, 21:36   #464
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But on the plus side, racing at Monaco could get faster. I am imagining rally style slides around the tight sections on full electric power.
The cars are significantly down on downforce.. at the front wing and at the rear due to the single exhaust, so they will definitely be slower everywhere than last year.

They were at 2001 speeds at Jerez, though im sure they will get a few seconds faster by Melbourne.

Quote:
Jokes apart, I hate that restriction on the flow rate. Even if a driver manages to save up fuel towards the end, he still won't be able to lay down all the power due to this. I am hoping that we don't get to hear many calls on the radio to save fuel. It will be much more annoying than the calls to save tyres.
I dont think we'l see much fuel saving/coasting. The drop works out to about 37.5% overall (160kgs to 100kgs). Now the engines have become smaller (2.4 Ltr to 1.6 Ltr) and 2 less cylinders, which automatically reduces fuel consumption, doesnt it.

The biggest boost is 160Hp of ERS available for 33 seconds, effectively 10 times the 'electric power' compared to last year.

To a layman like me, 100kgs over a race distance seems more than manageable. Dont see what the fuss is all about.

In addition to all this, speeds will also be lower courtesy harder Pirellis and lower downforce.

To top it all, the cars were not 'filled to the brim' last year, I recall McLaren and Mercedes getting consumption estimates wrong and having to coast to the flag on more than one occasion.

Last edited by Hatari : 14th February 2014 at 21:49.
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Old 15th February 2014, 07:06   #465
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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
May be a dumb question - Aren't the turbochargers capable of giving better fuel efficiency than the equivalent naturally aspirated ones since the turbo unit is not consuming fuel directly?

Also, the power output from the ERS unit is also in addition to the max fuel flow rate.

The way I see it, a 2013 car had mainly one source of power - the fuel. In contrast, 2014 car has 3 sources - fuel, ERS batteries and the turbocharger. The output from the last two sources is in addition to the 100 kg/hr fuel flow rate.
The turbocharger is there to compensate for the loss of cubic capacity. Due to the forced air, the 1.6 will inturn behave like a bigger engine. From 2013, the engine has lost 800cc and 2 cylinders. Is the turbo charger and the motor generator units enough to compensate for the power loss? I am not sure. but I don't think they will be far of. And the 2.4L V8 was frozen in 2007 if I am not mistaken. And from then the engine has just remained the same except for the big bump in reliability. So, I think current engine which is much more recent will not be far off. But the limiting factors are the restrictions on fuel and the high mileage that each engine has to do. The penalty on a blown engine will force the engineers to turn the wick down as this is first season.

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The cars are significantly down on downforce.. at the front wing and at the rear due to the single exhaust, so they will definitely be slower everywhere than last year.
Yes, the cars are low on downforce. But the big difference being that the engineers are free to work on downforce through the season unlike engine, which once homologated cannot be touched. I am fully expecting the engineers to get all the downforce back. Maybe not this season, but its not far away. And Monaco is high downforce not because it needs it, but since drag doesn't affect the speed as much as in other circuits. And high downforce gives better stability under braking. So, the loss of downforce wont be that influential as in the case of circuits with high speed corners. And the added torque will be a big gain in Monaco. I think it will be very different, but not slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Even in 2013, we've heard many calls to save fuel. There were many drivers who were running on vapours and didn't do the slow down lap so that they'll have the mandatory fuel sample left in the car. Situation is not going to be too different. If we go by the 2013 stats, there were only 3 races where the fuel flow exceeded 100kg/hr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
I dont think we'l see much fuel saving/coasting. The drop works out to about 37.5% overall (160kgs to 100kgs). Now the engines have become smaller (2.4 Ltr to 1.6 Ltr) and 2 less cylinders, which automatically reduces fuel consumption, doesnt it.
I am not sure. I think the limit on quantity of fuel and flow rate will be big factors and very evident on the most tracks. Hope I am wrong. Lets wait and watch.

And some news from the Renault camp. Renault hopeful Jerez issues solved ahead of second F1 test of 2014
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