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Old 18th February 2014, 11:34   #481
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Talking about their road cars, huh?
In racing, outright power is everything, Peak power, which is why they run oversquare engines with big bores and short strokes and run gear ratios that make them stay at close to their ~16,000 rpm peak power band as much as possible.
This is why Mercedes powered cars had phenomenal strength on the straights and Redbull had to run very short ratio on the top gear and were vulnerable on the straights.

I will give them credit where its due for their KERS device.
They ran a smaller and compact KERS device as the usage of KERS was low and almost nil in wet races, and this compact KERS helped reduce weight among other benefits.
No I am not.

Red Bull intentionally ran shorter ratios enabling better acceleration out of corners rather than focus on top speed. They were not quick on the straights because they did not need to be. This made them quicker than the rest. They only changed this when there was a problem in quali and one of the cars was in the midfield.

The aero package on the Red Bull generates the most downforce on the grid, this works in contrary to a high top speed setup. Why would they want the engines geared for top speed?

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Old 18th February 2014, 12:03   #482
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Is Red bull looking at moving towards Honda for engines in 2015

-Sajan
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Toro Rosso considering an engine switch is understandable. Not Red Bull. Renault custom make the engine for Red Bull, in addition they share quite a few engineering philosophies.
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Back to the on-going Topic, I think RBR will suffer a serious setback if they decide to dump Renault, not only in testing but throughout this season. Hence, I find it unlikely they would do so. Continuing what I said earlier there is absolutely no way Mercedes or Ferrari would give them a bespoke engine given them trying to break their recent dominance.
Don't forget that the RBR title sponsor Infiniti is owned by the Renault-Nissan group and hence all this rumour about RBR planning to dump Renault is not so simple. They'll lose a BIG chunk of their budget too along with the Renault engine.
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Old 18th February 2014, 13:41   #483
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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No I am not.

Red Bull intentionally ran shorter ratios enabling better acceleration out of corners rather than focus on top speed. They were not quick on the straights because they did not need to be. This made them quicker than the rest. They only changed this when there was a problem in quali and one of the cars was in the midfield.

The aero package on the Red Bull generates the most downforce on the grid, this works in contrary to a high top speed setup. Why would they want the engines geared for top speed?
I'm sorry, but you're confused between downforce and aerodynamic efficiency.
With high aerodynamic efficiency, they will have good downforce in the corners when they need it and will have MINIMUM DRAG at top speeds.
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Old 18th February 2014, 15:10   #484
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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I'm sorry, but you're confused between downforce and aerodynamic efficiency.
With high aerodynamic efficiency, they will have good downforce in the corners when they need it and will have MINIMUM DRAG at top speeds.
Its quite simple and you are trying to make it make complicated to try and prove your own point which is incorrect to begin with. Red Bull chose this because it was tied into to how the car was designed.Why are you getting into drag/aero efficiency when you do not have any data to back this up.. All it requires is to assess straight line data which we all have. Red Bull were never in the top 10 on top speed in any circuit. There were the fastest at the corners and out of them in pratically every circuit! You cannot be fastest in the corners and on the straights at the same time. Try to think a little practically.

If Red Bull were to run Mercedes engines they would still not be quickest on the straights but faster out of corners. Hope that explains it.
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Old 19th February 2014, 12:04   #485
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

At Spa, you need a better aero effeciency. Good downforce to be fast around the twisty sector and less drag on the straights for good top speed, see who has been fastest on the speed trap.

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Even around Monza in 2013, even if they were not in the Top 10 they were only less than 2KMs slower than the Mercs and Ferrari.

You should be able to explain this better I think!

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Red Bull were never in the top 10 on top speed in any circuit.
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Old 19th February 2014, 16:43   #486
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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At Spa, you need a better aero effeciency. Good downforce to be fast around the twisty sector and less drag on the straights for good top speed, see who has been fastest on the speed trap.

Even around Monza in 2013, even if they were not in the Top 10 they were only less than 2KMs slower than the Mercs and Ferrari.

You should be able to explain this better I think!
Do point out where I argued against Red Bull's superior aero efficiency! It is apparent to everyone that is the reason for their dominance.

In fact, this further proves my point! .. as opposed to Nitrous's :
Quote:
Redbull had to run very short ratio on the top gear and were vulnerable on the straights
My argument being :
Renault CHOSE to run shorter ratios on all the other circuits.

Your Spa/Monza screenshot proves they were not vulnerable on the straights where they chose to be.
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Old 19th February 2014, 18:17   #487
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Funny, I think you should read Nitrous's original post again and come back mate!

The Redbull had the best aero and mechanical grip they could go faster around the slow corners with EBD and what not, I think we agree on that

If the Renault engine was making more flatter power from low RPMs (now dont read that as really Low RPMs ), why would Redbull chose the short ratio gearing that is going to make them painfully slower on the straights?

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Do point out...
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Old 19th February 2014, 18:51   #488
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Talking Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Who said 2014 cars are slow?

Copying a strip of live commentary from Autosport live Bahrain Test

Quote:
12:15 Another improvement at the top for Hulkenberg, and his 1m36.953s makes him the first driver to beat the 2013 Bahrain GP fastest lap in a 2014 car.
Cheers!

Vinu
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Old 19th February 2014, 21:48   #489
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Who said 2014 cars are slow?

Copying a strip of live commentary from Autosport live Bahrain Test

Cheers!

Vinu
This is quite amazing.. dont know where all that speed is coming from!


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Funny, I think you should read Nitrous's original post again and come back mate!

The Redbull had the best aero and mechanical grip they could go faster around the slow corners with EBD and what not, I think we agree on that

If the Renault engine was making more flatter power from low RPMs (now dont read that as really Low RPMs ), why would Redbull chose the short ratio gearing that is going to make them painfully slower on the straights?
Being 'painfully slow' on the straights becomes irrelevant when they were a second a lap faster is it not?

Seb would pull away at 2 seconds a lap on the start to break DRS and that was it.. top speed didnt matter.



Last edited by Hatari : 19th February 2014 at 21:50.
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Old 19th February 2014, 22:21   #490
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

What if Seb is not on pole to pull that 2 second gap on Lap1? How will he stay out of DRS?

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Being...

...
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Old 19th February 2014, 22:38   #491
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Want to ride shotgun with Nico and soak that V6 turbo in?

Interactive 360-degree video of W05
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Old 19th February 2014, 23:15   #492
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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What if Seb is not on pole to pull that 2 second gap on Lap1? How will he stay out of DRS?
No what ifs mate. We are talking past tense. He did pull that gap, he did stay out of DRS.

You've been talking 2014 all this while? There is no way they will be bottom of the top speed chart if they havent got a fast enough car. no wonder we'r going on and on about this.
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Old 20th February 2014, 09:56   #493
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

A good video on the first day of testing at Bahrain by Peter Windsor.



No, its not Alain Prost. Its Anthony Rowlinson, Editor - F1 Racing. Anthony says the cars are using only about 50% of the IC engine power so far. Nice! Hope the fuel restrictions don't undermine the races that very much.
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Old 20th February 2014, 19:00   #494
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Arrow Re: The 2014 F1 Season

This year's cars are getting faster and faster.

Another one from Live Commentary

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13:19 Magnussen comes out of the pits and turns the wick up on his first flying lap - becoming the first man at this test to dip into the 1m34s. That puts him 2.5 seconds shy of last year's pole position.
Cheers!
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Old 20th February 2014, 22:33   #495
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Originally Posted by myavu View Post
This year's cars are getting faster and faster.

Another one from Live Commentary



Cheers!
Where are they gaining those seconds? Low speed corners or high speed ones or straights?
I reckon they're running extreme maps with the engines. Running Super high boost levels. They're not being conservative with their engines like they have to be during the season.
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