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Old 9th April 2014, 08:33   #616
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If the teams are allowed to develop in season, Mercedes would still have the advantage of getting it right from day 1 and could build up a lead with the first few races of the season. However, other teams could still catch up or excel later in the season and take it away from the Mercs. Allowing in-season testing is the only way to prevent the contests from being one-sided which is never good for the sport.
+1

Ferrari has clearly got it very wrong. And in-season development of the engine is the only way out for such a crucial piece like the Power Unit. Even the Renault engine looks stronger than Ferrari and consumption looks to be their main problem. Dan' car was strong in the last 10 laps after the safety car came in and enough fuel was saved.

The development should be allowed mid season so that the guys who started with an advantage are not hampered and rake up a good haul of points as their reward for the head-start. And I am sure Mercedes too will gain from the test, maybe the improvements will be marginal compared to say Ferrari who is clearly on the back foot.
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Old 10th April 2014, 16:12   #617
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Currently, the regulations don't allow teams with engineers and money to catch up on the engine front during the season.

You want to gain 3 seconds a lap with aero improvements? No problem.
You want to gain 1 second a lap with engine improvements? Sorry. Its against the rules.

When I say rule changes, I'm not asking for 'edit'. I'm hoping for deleting of some unnecessary ones.
Engine development on the performance side was ruled out to save costs. This is in place till 2015. Renault and Ferrari have made up a lot of ground since the engine freeze on reliability as both PUs continue to function well below capacity. No one is stopping the teams from implementing this. Both manufacturers continue to find gains here.

The most unnecessary one IMO is aero development, 100s of millions spent with nothing to show the world and no transfer onto road car technology.

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Allowing in-season testing is the only way to prevent the contests from being one-sided which is never good for the sport.
Not really. Most issues faced by Red Bull/Renault and Ferrari are software issues. A solution here is independant of testing. Red Bull were miles behind everyone else in winter testing, but came back quite miraculously with any on track mileage. Testing is an avoidable expense for all the teams save Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull. If they allow it, we will never see a Williams/McLaren/Lotus compete with the top 3.

We have to accept the economic environment the world is in and work around it.

Now thankfully, Honda are back.
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Old 10th April 2014, 21:04   #618
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BMW are apparently considering a return to F1 as an engine supplier. Hope this materializes. They would probably consider 'adopting' a team like Honda are doing with McLaren.. This would create another powerhouse team with considerable financial might. If rumors are anything to go by Honda are injecting $100 million in a cash + engine deal into McLaren to ensure a degree of success.
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Old 10th April 2014, 21:59   #619
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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BMW are apparently considering a return to F1 as an engine supplier. Hope this materializes. They would probably consider 'adopting' a team like Honda are doing with McLaren.. This would create another powerhouse team with considerable financial might. If rumors are anything to go by Honda are injecting $100 million in a cash + engine deal into McLaren to ensure a degree of success.
BMW reminds me of the 2003 season where Schumacher, Raikkonen and Montoya were 1-3 in WDC standings and separated by just 2 points (72, 71 & 70 IIRC) going into the final 2 races of the season.

Looking back, the worst change that happened in recent times was the adoption of the 25-18-15 points system instead of the 10-8-6 system. The huge advantage of win in the current system is the reason the contests have become so one-sided. Earlier, the closeness of the points meant that no one could run away with the championship halfway through the season.

Even in this season, if there is one race where both Mercedes retires, the driver and team who runs third in that race gets a huge advantage of a race win and a heap of points over the rivals even if it was pure luck that enabled him to get that win. I wouldn't mind if F1 returns to the old points system. That is probably the easiest and cheapest solution to make the championship battle last longer into the season, considering the close mid-field we've got.
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Old 10th April 2014, 23:01   #620
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There's a lot of frustration built up at Ferrari. With Merc being in a diff universe, heads are bound to roll. I would'nt be surprised if Montezemolo replaces Stefano D.

Will Ross Brawn pl stand up!
Or do I hear Flavio? haha..
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Old 11th April 2014, 08:14   #621
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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There's a lot of frustration built up at Ferrari. With Merc being in a diff universe, heads are bound to roll. I would'nt be surprised if Montezemolo replaces Stefano D.

Will Ross Brawn pl stand up!
Or do I hear Flavio? haha..
Indeed that's possible.
It's quite sad they have fallen so far back but I'm not surprised I always maintained that despite them being the oldest F1 team, Ferrari was never really that good as a team historically and It was where it was recently thanks greatly to the efforts of MSC who brought it out it's misery in the mid nineties, which took him a few years to accomplish it should be mentioned. MSC was a big factor but also RB and Rory yes.
As good a racer he is, I just don't see those qualities in ALO, He must give his Input but he seems to demand rather than work together with. Maybe not as patient as Schumi or simply not the same kind of 'outlook' as MSC had and couple that with the fact that they have no one in the same vein as Rory Byrne or Ross Brawn.

As for 2014, I'm not sure how they will recover given the engines(to my knowledge) have been frozen and they have such a power deficit Issues.

It's entirely possible ALO will leave Ferrari altogether for Macca with their works Honda deal for 2015 as well. I assume Ron would be mature enough to put aside his previous quarrels with ALO and put the team first, should this possibility arise.

Either way, Interesting developments ahead...
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Old 11th April 2014, 08:31   #622
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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I would'nt be surprised if Montezemolo replaces Stefano D.
Stefano looks to be somehow hanging on to his seat, but it cant be for long given the car this season. But I doubt whether Luca can replace him. Being a team principal is a full time job and Luca wouldn't have time for that.

And in another great news, Minardi says BMW is ready to come back to F1. Not many manufacturers can turn a blind eye to developing that amazing Power Unit.

EXCLUSIVE – BMW ready to come back in Formula 1

Quote:
Gian Carlo Minardi notices this piece of news on the website minardi.it. “The engine revolution that has marked this new era of Formula 1 has involved several engine manufactures, present and not present on the race field”, the manager from Faenza comments. “We’ve always affirmed that several constructors are testing these new power units, that will represent the future for standard cars, independently from their participation to the F1 World Championship.

German rumour has it that a BMW Board of Directors has been fixed for the month of May to consider a coming back in F1 already for 2015. The promoter of this project is Steven Althaus, Director Brand Management BMW and Marketing Services BMW Group. A confirmation of BMW’s concrete will to evaluate future projects has been the continuous and steady presence of technicians, both in the pre-season testing and during the first races, gathering important information.
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Old 11th April 2014, 08:44   #623
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Originally Posted by Maky View Post
It's entirely possible ALO will leave Ferrari altogether for Macca with their works Honda deal for 2015 as well. I assume Ron would be mature enough to put aside his previous quarrels with ALO and put the team first, should this possibility arise.

Either way, Interesting developments ahead...
I think Ferrari knew very well that Alonso could leave to McLaren for 2015 if they are not competitive enough in 2014. I don't see any other reason why they would compromise on their huge ego which is as old as their F1 history and bring back Raikkonen - that single move says how confident they were about this season back in 2013.

They looked at the perfect pair on the grid who could consistently put a mediocre car on podium beating the better cars. Since McLaren kicked out Perez after just one year, they are likely to do the same if they have a chance of getting Alonso.

If Honda is giving $100 million and wants Alonso, I don't think Ron Dennis has a choice. If Maldonado can get into Lotus with $30 million and zero talent, I don't see why Alonso would have a problem with such a huge bet on him.

EDIT:
Sauber is a very likely option for BMW return, considering their history together and the way Sauber is struggling currently with the Ferrari power unit. I doubt if Williams would want to step away from the proven Mercedes option till BMW proves themselves on the grid.

Last edited by zenren : 11th April 2014 at 09:12.
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Old 11th April 2014, 09:53   #624
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Stefano looks to be somehow hanging on to his seat, but it cant be for long given the car this season. But I doubt whether Luca can replace him. Being a team principal is a full time job and Luca wouldn't have time for that.
He cannot nor would he. Luca has long had political ambitions.

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And in another great news, Minardi says BMW is ready to come back to F1. Not many manufacturers can turn a blind eye to developing that amazing Power Unit.

EXCLUSIVE – BMW ready to come back in Formula 1
That's Incredible news!!!. That article is 2 days old now, Strange the major F1 news sites haven't covered it yet o.O
Hope it's accurate.
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EDIT:
Sauber is a very likely option for BMW return, considering their history together and the way Sauber is struggling currently with the Ferrari power unit. I doubt if Williams would want to step away from the proven Mercedes option till BMW proves themselves on the grid.
I doubt if BMW would be interested in joining hands with Williams to begin with given how it didn't work out earlier, If this story is true. Sauber haven't exactly been a team that's ever accomplished much on merit, such as FI with smaller budget, lackluster team.
It could be possible them entering as a constructor perhaps.

Last edited by Maky : 11th April 2014 at 09:57.
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Old 11th April 2014, 10:03   #625
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He cannot nor would he. Luca has long had political ambitions.
I just hope its not Flavio Briatore. I just cannot stand that fella. But, he could persuade Alonso to continue with Ferrari. Hope Ross can be brought back from his fishing holiday.
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Old 11th April 2014, 10:54   #626
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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Er...Z6WmlSUlU/edit

Skip to 19:30. The bald man explains Ferraris situation(and hypocrisy), reasoning behind them making fuss over V6 noise very well. Also throws light on how much influence Ferrari has been given by Bernard.

The talk on the 4 cylinder engine was new information for me.
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Old 11th April 2014, 11:27   #627
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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Indeed that's possible.
It's quite sad they have fallen so far back but I'm not surprised I always maintained that despite them being the oldest F1 team, Ferrari was never really that good as a team historically and It was where it was recently thanks greatly to the efforts of MSC who brought it out it's misery in the mid nineties, which took him a few years to accomplish it should be mentioned. MSC was a big factor but also RB and Rory yes.
As good a racer he is, I just don't see those qualities in ALO, He must give his Input but he seems to demand rather than work together with. Maybe not as patient as Schumi or simply not the same kind of 'outlook' as MSC had and couple that with the fact that they have no one in the same vein as Rory Byrne or Ross Brawn.

As for 2014, I'm not sure how they will recover given the engines(to my knowledge) have been frozen and they have such a power deficit Issues.

It's entirely possible ALO will leave Ferrari altogether for Macca with their works Honda deal for 2015 as well. I assume Ron would be mature enough to put aside his previous quarrels with ALO and put the team first, should this possibility arise.

Either way, Interesting developments ahead...
What the signing of MS showed was intent. Intent that Ferrari wanted to return to winning ways. This galvanized the entire technical team.. geniuses as they were and brought in the investment required. MS has joked that the first time he saw the F1 factory, it reminded him of his Karting days! Thats how primitive it was.

Now, drivers dont play a role at all in designing quick cars. Wind tunnels and engineers do. Mclaren had Lewis and Button to advise them on the car they produced last year.. it was quite the lemon.

Drivers are left to develop in season and iron out existing flaws.

Montezemolo and Domenicali both know how important Alonso is, if they were to lose Alonso it will be the biggest failure. No driver leaves Ferrari after all.
Not to mention that Santander would follow him right out. Thats worth upwards of $30 million. All in all disaster.

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I think Ferrari knew very well that Alonso could leave to McLaren for 2015 if they are not competitive enough in 2014. I don't see any other reason why they would compromise on their huge ego which is as old as their F1 history and bring back Raikkonen - that single move says how confident they were about this season back in 2013.

They looked at the perfect pair on the grid who could consistently put a mediocre car on podium beating the better cars. Since McLaren kicked out Perez after just one year, they are likely to do the same if they have a chance of getting Alonso.

If Honda is giving $100 million and wants Alonso, I don't think Ron Dennis has a choice. If Maldonado can get into Lotus with $30 million and zero talent, I don't see why Alonso would have a problem with such a huge bet on him.

EDIT:
Sauber is a very likely option for BMW return, considering their history together and the way Sauber is struggling currently with the Ferrari power unit. I doubt if Williams would want to step away from the proven Mercedes option till BMW proves themselves on the grid.
They deserately want him.. that is for sure. I doubt he will actually go. Ferrari still remains the largest assurance for a WDC... Manufacturer teams will always be stronger in this era I feel.
Although, Ferrari have majorly screwed up on this new PU. He will have faith in the joint abilities of Fry and Allison.

The big question remains for 2015.. who will fill the Mercedes engine void once Mclaren shift to Honda! There will be a long line for sure!

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I just hope its not Flavio Briatore. I just cannot stand that fella. But, he could persuade Alonso to continue with Ferrari. Hope Ross can be brought back from his fishing holiday.
Flavio's strengths have always been on the commercial side. What Ferrari need is technical knowhow at the top, who better than Ross Brawn?
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Old 11th April 2014, 12:46   #628
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What the signing of MS showed was intent. Intent that Ferrari wanted to return to winning ways. This galvanized the entire technical team.. geniuses as they were and brought in the investment required. MS has joked that the first time he saw the F1 factory, it reminded him of his Karting days! Thats how primitive it was.

Now, drivers dont play a role at all in designing quick cars. Wind tunnels and engineers do. Mclaren had Lewis and Button to advise them on the car they produced last year.. it was quite the lemon.

Drivers are left to develop in season and iron out existing flaws.
Yes.
Although I'm not sure on the exact facts, I would like to say with some certainty that I don't think there was any galvanization of the technical team, In those days technical team was effectively the guy who designs the car wasn't it? If anything, In my opinion the addition of Ross Brawn & Rory would have uprooted and changed whatever tech team that might have existed there as part of restructuring. Again, Not aware of facts but this is just my opinion as MSC was given full control of how he wants the team to be run as I read in an article long ago.

Also, Had there been any geniuses they wouldn't have languished as they had prior to MSC coming in me thinks!. As for the financial side, I don't think investment has ever been a major concern for the red team being the pride of a nation etc. etc.

ALO or for that matter no current driver is like MSC, I seriously doubt he would move to a mid-fielder today if approached. MSCs move from Benetton to Ferrari would be like Vettel moving from RBR to Williams in 2013!.
No, Lewis Hamiltons move from Macca to Mercedes doesn't count Ross laid the foundation in already while Lewis was off with his on again off again girlfriend ; )

I think you may be spot on drivers influence, or lack of, In car design today.

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Montezemolo and Domenicali both know how important Alonso is, if they were to lose Alonso it will be the biggest failure. No driver leaves Ferrari after all.
Not to mention that Santander would follow him right out. Thats worth upwards of $30 million. All in all disaster.
Absolutely. Disaster financially and from a PR point of view.
The tens of millions & It would hurt their oh so large ego that a top driver has left because Ferrari wasn't good enough. The Italian media would eat them alive!.
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Old 11th April 2014, 14:23   #629
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They deserately want him.. that is for sure. I doubt he will actually go. Ferrari still remains the largest assurance for a WDC... Manufacturer teams will always be stronger in this era I feel.
Although, Ferrari have majorly screwed up on this new PU. He will have faith in the joint abilities of Fry and Allison.
McLaren is as good as a manufacturer team if their engine supplier doesn't operate their own team in parallel. They were always the top title contenders till Mercedes bought the Brawn GP and started optimizing for their own team. Unless Honda plans to operate their own factory team in parallel, their development would be optimized for McLaren and that should give McLaren the same edge that other manufacturer teams have.

Alonso has probably max 2 seasons left after the current one and time is of absolute priority. Since Alonso is having hands on knowledge on what to expect from Ferrari, he might decide to stay if there is a strong chance that Ferrari would catch up Mercedes and he has a chance next season. If they are still behind Mercedes around early September when F1 leaves Europe, he might think of taking a chance with the Honda engine.

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Yes.
ALO or for that matter no current driver is like MSC, I seriously doubt he would move to a mid-fielder today if approached. MSCs move from Benetton to Ferrari would be like Vettel moving from RBR to Williams in 2013!.
MSC moved from Benetton to Ferrari when he had more than a decade of his career ahead of him and it took him a few years before he got the championship. Alonso did something similar when he was younger with the turn around of Renault in 2005, who were sitting in the midfield for quite a long time till then. Will a current driver do it? Only someone who is young enough to have enough years of racing left in him after the team gets to the top.
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Old 11th April 2014, 16:51   #630
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MSC moved from Benetton to Ferrari when he had more than a decade of his career ahead of him and it took him a few years before he got the championship. Alonso did something similar when he was younger with the turn around of Renault in 2005, who were sitting in the midfield for quite a long time till then. Will a current driver do it? Only someone who is young enough to have enough years of racing left in him after the team gets to the top.
I'm not so sure a comparison between the Alonsos move to McLaren and MSC to Ferrari can be made. McLaren were still fairly competitive with a good structure in place, Ferrari on the other hand lacked it and it was significantly more riskier a move at the time.

I suppose one can call this view subjective though...
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