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Old 29th October 2013, 11:55   #76
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Wink Re: The 2014 F1 Season

No one is saying Vettel is a bad driver. He is really talented and well deserving champion. What irritates me is that he is just 26 and with 4 championship under his belt, others are talking about legacy and greatness. His statistics may put him among others, but they are just numbers. Let him win few more championships and elevate a struggling team to success. Last year I thoroughly enjoyed Hamilton catching and overtaking him at Austin. I would like to see him doing wheel to wheel racing with likes of Hamilton, Alonso and few more with good cars. These days no one is able to challenge him because they don't have a 'machinery' to do so.

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A lot of us can agree, we respect Vettel. Winning 4 WDC's is no joke. I can't imaging Alex Yoong (remember him?) getting a Red Bull and winning 4 WDC's. But due to the fact that Vettel is winning at the expense of other fan favourites, does not seem to struggle, drives a Marketing exercise and comes across and rude and arrogant, people seem to dislike him.
You detailed it correctly.

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Strange. I feel the same way about Schum fans!

And I am no Vettel fan, but he still deserves all his dues. To me it just seems that Schum fans can't handle the fact that someone is already close to obliviate his records, which they thought would last forever.
Not really, championships and other records are just numbers and someone one day will break those. Same with Schumi, Vettel or even our own Sachin.

Here everyone is taking about Schumi's Ferrari era from 2000 to 2006 with dominant 5 championships. But there was a time before from 1996 to 1999. He came close to lifting championship few times with a normal or sometimes poor car. There was hardcore racing. People like us start watching F1 those times and due to him we became Ferrari F1 fans. F1 gathered maximum enthusiasts and followers at his time at Ferrari (1996 - 2006) and he was true blue ambassador to the sport. The question is, can Vettel with his current 4 WC can lift the sport and flourish it when the F1 enthusiasm is fading around the globe? A true champion will never be booed (Schumi got it once at Austria due to team order, but at least he swapped the podium to show some respect) like this season.

If we are loyal be loyal. There is nothing against Vettel as a driver or his talents. He is phenomenal.

Cheers!
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Old 29th October 2013, 12:02   #77
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

I think it will be stupid if I want to repeat what I said!

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Its funny that you comment the post is childish.Go back and read again and you will see your post on the early half of 2009 season and Zenren's reply to it
None of these drivers were driving car where the speed difference was more than 1 sec. Vettel could do a 2sec difference if he wanted to.

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Being held up - well we have seen lot such occurances from various drivers,I am not really sure what to make of it.Yesterday we saw Alonso stuck behind Ricciardo .Was the Torro Rosso faster than the Ferrari - I bet not.Have seen Michael struggle behind Jaime Alguersuari in 2010 Australia.
Flashes of brilliance that you are talking about, that is what I am after. Not all the great drivers in the history had won championships, the flashes of brilliance is what made them legends. Michael had a 15 year career with 7 Championships, Senna with 10 years and 3 of them, Gilles won none.

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Leaving aside all that,if we look at the WDC's won by Senna,Michael,Alonso and now Vettel,they all did it when they had the competitive car in the grid.None of them won a WDC when they didnt have a competitive car.Flashes of brilliance here and there - Yes,WDC - No.Period.
I never said its always the driver and not the car. You can go back to my posts and read my response 'julupani' provided you dont make your own meanings out of it

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Its not just the car alone,had it been then why didnt a Barrichello or a Webber or a Fisichella win even a single WDC.And definitely its not just the driver alone too.

But I do believe to do it 4 times in a row,you definitely have to be special.
You liked the Pole to win stuff?

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I started liking Vettel after his race in 2010 AbuDhabi GP.Entering the race third in WDC contention and 15 points behind Alonso and then snatching it away from him shows the guy has what it takes.
What career path? Look at his F3 & Formula Renault results

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If one looks at his career path in F1,he has always showed that he is capable of much laurels.The timings he set when he got to drive the BMW car on Fridays was good.Even with the Torro Rosso,he showed some very good driving skills.We saw some mistakes but then we can excuse those for he was just a 20 year old in a F1 car - Fuji was spectacular until he ran into the back of Webber's car and also the victory in Italy in a TR.

He joined RBR when the team was on the rise and has stayed at the top since then.I dont think its a fault.So lets cut some slack on him.

It happened this year in Hungary when he spent 40 laps behind Button in a Mclaren. For comparison, Lewis passed Button in a lap.

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I can remember one instance when Vettel followed Massa for more than half tha race. That was at Spain 2009. Are you talking about that? Or was there another? Ferrari had KERS on it's cars then and RBR didn't. One reason why Vettel couldn't do it.

Was there another?
Thats about his prime years when he was labelled Legend, not the deluge of his career he had with Mercedes.

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Was it someone else driving for Mercedes from 2010-2012 alongside Rosberg? I didn't know MS was fighting for wins while driving at P9. Or maybe you're right, he was busy getting the record for maximum number of retirements in a season that he couldn't drive for 40 laps in a race, leave alone leading or following a car.
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Old 29th October 2013, 15:25   #78
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What career path? Look at his F3 & Formula Renault results
Past doesn't matter now. But we did see both BMW and RB fight over him & I think they went to court to sort out who Vettel was contracted to.

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It happened this year in Hungary when he spent 40 laps behind Button in a Mclaren. For comparison, Lewis passed Button in a lap.
I don't really take that as a measure of talent, but didn't Lewis just spend the entire race 1st behind Rosberg and then behind Massa? I don't think that means anything.
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Old 29th October 2013, 15:43   #79
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

Thats a response the OP quote about his career path. BMW & RB fought because BMW signed Vettel in 2000 for their young driver program and wanted to keep him.

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Past doesn't matter now. But we did see both BMW and RB fight over him & I think they went to court to sort out who Vettel was contracted to.
Did you forget that Lewis won the race? Rosberg retired and Massa had an accident with Rosberg.

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I don't really take that as a measure of talent, but didn't Lewis just spend the entire race 1st behind Rosberg and then behind Massa? I don't think that means anything.
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Old 29th October 2013, 15:51   #80
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Did you forget that Lewis won the race? Rosberg retired and Massa had an accident with Rosberg.
I was talking about the most recent race - Indian GP.
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Old 29th October 2013, 16:52   #81
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

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I think it will be stupid if I want to repeat what I said!

None of these drivers were driving car where the speed difference was more than 1 sec. Vettel could do a 2sec difference if he wanted to.
Exactly, it indeed is.Which race in first half of 2009 did he have a car which can pull 2 seconds when he wanted to?

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Flashes of brilliance that you are talking about, that is what I am after. Not all the great drivers in the history had won championships, the flashes of brilliance is what made them legends. Michael had a 15 year career with 7 Championships, Senna with 10 years and 3 of them, Gilles won none.

I never said its always the driver and not the car. You can go back to my posts and read my response 'julupani' provided you dont make your own meanings out of it

You liked the Pole to win stuff?

What career path? Look at his F3 & Formula Renault results

It happened this year in Hungary when he spent 40 laps behind Button in a Mclaren. For comparison, Lewis passed Button in a lap.

Thats about his prime years when he was labelled Legend, not the deluge of his career he had with Mercedes.
The guy is just 7 years old in F1 with a race drive,isnt it and of which he has spent 5 years with RBR.So I assume you dont consider having 5 top5 finishes in a TorroRosso as an achievement in itself.Running 3rd until the mistake he did in Fuji with or that spectacular drive in rain at Italy?

The mark of great ones is that when they have the means and the methods ,they never let that go.Thats what make this 4 in a row special.It wasnt pole to win at Delhi isnt it.He dropped back to 17th and he might have well been struck behind a ToroRosso all race like few did,but he didnt .So yes,I enjoy it thoroughly.

I never followed his career before F1 or until the drives with the TR in 2008.But since you mentioned his earlier career,I read on it and see the guy made his debut in Formula3 Euro series in 2005 with a team ranked in the middle and he has won the Top Rookie honors that year.In 2006 he moved to the top team along with diResta and finished 2nd in his 2nd season.

2007 in Formula Renault,he has raced only 7 times and I guess since he started with ToroRosso he didnt compete in rest of the Formula Renault races?In those 7 races,he finished in the podium in 4 including a win.Is that that bad?

So I have no clue what you keep on harping about his junior career
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Old 29th October 2013, 17:34   #82
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

I will stop here if you want to continue twisting my statements

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Exactly, it indeed is.Which race in first half of 2009 did he have a car which can pull 2 seconds when he wanted to?
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Old 29th October 2013, 17:35   #83
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Did you forget that Lewis won the race? Rosberg retired and Massa had an accident with Rosberg.
Are you saying Lewis was better at overtaking because he won the race due to the drivers ahead of him colliding/retiring? From what I remember, he couldn't overtake Massa or his team mate but won the race in the end just because of his luck.

With an enormously higher degree of luck (every other driver retiring), even Caterham can win a race!
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Old 29th October 2013, 17:43   #84
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

What luck, if he had not passed Button when he came out of his first stop his race win would never be in history.

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Are you saying Lewis was better at overtaking because he won the race due to the drivers ahead of him colliding/retiring? From what I remember, he couldn't overtake Massa or his team mate but won the race in the end just because of his luck.
Yes, lets talk about it when that happens.

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With an enormously higher degree of luck (every other driver retiring), even Caterham can win a race!
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Old 29th October 2013, 19:48   #85
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What you say is all fact, but which part of Vettel's career he was 2s faster and won 6 consecutive races? End of lap 1 in Indian GP the gap was 2.4s, is that Vettel, I don't think so.
Yes. Mysteriously, the same technology is not available for WEBBER, despite being in the same team.

Had the technology been available to WEBBER and had VETTEL outperformed webber, I would have agreed that it is VETTEL and not the car.
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Old 29th October 2013, 20:00   #86
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

All, just noticed the thread title. I guess we've been going way off topic since none of this debate is actually related to 2014 season.

Mods,
May be its appropriate to move this discussion to a new thread like "Vettel wins 4th WDC"
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Old 1st November 2013, 10:40   #87
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

A few things are becoming clear for 2014.. esp in Alonso vs Kimi battle.
If Ferrari produce a car that is difficult to drive, Alonso will whip Kimi. It will get closer if the car is a dream to drive like the Red Bull.
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Old 3rd November 2013, 17:14   #88
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A few things are becoming clear for 2014.. esp in Alonso vs Kimi battle.
If Ferrari produce a car that is difficult to drive, Alonso will whip Kimi. It will get closer if the car is a dream to drive like the Red Bull.
There is an old interview with Andrea Stella who was Kimi's race engineer and who is now Alonso's race engineer. In his words, Kimi has a window (setups etc) within which he "can be the fastest". But it's a narrow window as we have seen in 2008 and lately at Lotus (look at what the change to SWB for Kimi has done at Lotus at Abu Dhabi, against LWB which Lotus reckons to be overall faster). Alonso is more adaptable than Kimi and that is his strength. But, if the car/tires allow Kimi to set up the car exactly to his liking, I think Alonso could have difficulties with Kimi, no matter whether the car is as good as Redbull or as bad as Caterham.

In other news, there is a report that both the New Jersey race and the Mexico race which were scheduled for 2014 will not make it to the final calendar as the venues are not ready. Could Indian GP return for 2014?
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Old 4th November 2013, 17:47   #89
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Frank Williams hints at "Ross Brawn to Williams" - http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motors...ry/133837.html
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Old 11th November 2013, 12:28   #90
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Default Re: The 2014 F1 Season

The 2014 F1 Silly Season

The 2014 F1 Season-f1.jpg
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