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Old 13th October 2013, 18:47   #16
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
5th race in a row and on a 2 stop strategy, Vettel, the Finger boy cruises to Victory,
De La Rosa says, the 3 stopper was 15s slower than the 2 stopping cars during their race simulation. I was surprised when Webber stopped again in Lap 25.

@tedkravitz says on @SkySportsF1 Webber's 2nd stint times were good and don't appear to warrant 2nd stop on lap 25 - much as Webber said
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Old 13th October 2013, 19:04   #17
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De La Rosa says, the 3 stopper was 15s slower than the 2 stopping cars during their race simulation. I was surprised when Webber stopped again in Lap 25. @tedkravitz says on @SkySportsF1 Webber's 2nd stint times were good and don't appear to warrant 2nd stop on lap 25 - much as Webber said
Would have been interesting had Webber managed to find a way past Grosjean immediately after his final stop. He did it a bit late to challenge Vettel.

He had fresher tyres and irrespective of what RBR pitfall said, we might have seen some scrapping ;-)

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Old 13th October 2013, 22:14   #18
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Would have been interesting had Webber managed to find a way past Grosjean immediately after his final stop. He did it a bit late to challenge Vettel. He had fresher tyres and irrespective of what RBR pitfall said, we might have seen some scrapping ;-)
Grosjean told he was looking after tires when Vettel passed him on 39th lap, and while Webber was behind him on fresher medium at 44th lap he was on defensive mode. But as said if Webber was not kept on hold by Grosjean it would have been a different race altogether on the closing laps. Webber was a second a lap faster than Vettel while he pitted for third time.
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Old 13th October 2013, 22:27   #19
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Webber had everything going for him after his final pitstop.He had the fresher and faster mediums against the older and slower Hard tyres on Grosjean's car.

Yet he lost vital time not being able to find a way past him.He was on his gearbox at lap 46.Vettel was struggling with his Hard tyres during the final laps.

Irrespective of what RBR pitwall would have said, he could have easily had a go at Vettel.Webber had nothing to loose yet he did.

Well, I beleive it's situations like this which separate the Great's from Also ran's
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Old 13th October 2013, 22:58   #20
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Default Re: 2013 F1 - Japanese Grand Prix @ Suzuka

I am getting tired of watching races on a small computer screen rather than on TV because of cricket!! (no star sports 2 on dishtv).

Another good drive from Hulk. I will be sad if he's left without a drive next season. Grosjean drove well. Mark lost the race stuck behind him. If he could have done a Vettel, we would have had a cracker finish.

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Well, I beleive it's situations like this which separate the Great's from Also ran's
Sorry, but MW cannot be called an also ran. He's a very talented driver & a multiple GP winner. Just not as talented as the top 4-5 drivers. NK is an also ran, Sutil/Di Riesta seem to be on the verge of an also ran.
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Old 13th October 2013, 23:18   #21
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Hope you watched the race before you come to the point about Webber passing GRO. Webber's engineer was busy on the radio convincing him about doing the weaker 3 stop strategy compared to Vettel. For, you must be knowing how much it's difficult to pass in a circuit like Suzuka, Webber had no chance even with fresh tyres.

It was obvious when Webber stopped as early as L25 that redbull was doing something naughty for their driver who can't win it fighting head to head!

To add, Vettel's response on the radio about a charging Webber 'Keep him away from me' was more of a whiner than a winner

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Would have been interesting had Webber managed to find a way past Grosjean immediately after his final stop. He did it a bit late to challenge Vettel.

He had fresher tyres and irrespective of what RBR pitfall said, we might have seen some scrapping ;-)

Last edited by anachronix : 13th October 2013 at 23:22.
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Old 14th October 2013, 00:31   #22
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Sorry, but MW cannot be called an also ran. He's a very talented driver & a multiple GP winner. Just not as talented as the top 4-5 drivers. NK is an also ran, Sutil/Di Riesta seem to be on the verge of an also ran.
Well,kind of agree with that.Should have phrased that as difference between the Champions and the rest.

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Hope you watched the race before you come to the point about Webber passing GRO. Webber's engineer was busy on the radio convincing him about doing the weaker 3 stop strategy compared to Vettel. For, you must be knowing how much it's difficult to pass in a circuit like Suzuka, Webber had no chance even with fresh tyres.

It was obvious when Webber stopped as early as L25 that redbull was doing something naughty for their driver who can't win it fighting head to head!

To add, Vettel's response on the radio about a charging Webber 'Keep him away from me' was more of a whiner than a winner
I didnt watch it live.The telecast begun at 2:30AM local time and I had it recorded and watched it.I dont get your point about Vettel complaining on the radio - I believe he was complaining about the cars not responding to blue flag and the NBC commentary team mentioned it was aimed more at Maldonado.Vettel was pretty vocal about a 4 car train ahead of him which werent responding well to the blue flags.

By the way,you seemed to have missed the race broadcast when Vettel coming out about 2.3 seconds behind Grosjean after his final pitstop, overtook him within 1-2 laps.Vettel was on the Hard tyres.Failing to make this move,would have made him race against Webber when he came out of his final stop.But Vettel made the move.

Webber had an excellent oppurtunity to win this GP.When he came out of his final pitstops,approx 5 seconds behind Grosjean,he caught him up at around 1.8 seconds a lap.He was right on him by lap 46 and couldnt get to overtake Grosjean until the penultimate lap of the race.

The 8-9 laps he spent behind Grosjean cost him the race today.Vettel's front lefts had huge blisters and the timings he was doing on those Hard's were not that great.Added to that he was getting caught behind the backmarkers as well.So the way I see it,Webber was exposed today - a Alonso or a Kimi or a Lewis in similar situation in that RBR would have made light work of this.

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Old 14th October 2013, 03:33   #23
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Amazing, we guys at T-BHP know more about the technical issues, than the people who run the F1 team.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../10/15093.html

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110562
Pavan, I only said his KERS was ok. His and Mark's KERS was reset before second run. Vettel's lap was poor due to his front lockup at spoon curve. Else he must have almost there with Mark. He did not use the KERS in that final run. That is why Vettel set aside KERS issue at post qualifying press conference. Now I need to dig out the Q3 recording to prove myself. No 'Team BHP' member will simply state F1 techincal issues especially when one closely follow the GP weekend 'LIVE'.

Cheers!
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Old 14th October 2013, 09:07   #24
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All those whining about ferrari helping Schumi, where are they now, i am sure all was not ok in the race and am sure if the team was fair webber would have sealed it convincingly.
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Old 14th October 2013, 14:03   #25
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Default Re: 2013 F1 - Japanese Grand Prix @ Suzuka

what appeared to be a boring race, improved by the middle pack battles. I am growing more and more in awe of Hulkenberg's driving abilities. A good drive.
My favourite underdog, the Sahara Force India team seem to be just giving up on winning any more races this year. Pathetic.
So vettel it is again post India race. F1 is becoming too predictable to be interesting. Maybe I should switch to cricket as there seems to be 90% of the Indian channels showing cricket - then I wont miss many of them (Just kidding)
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Old 14th October 2013, 19:41   #26
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Thats so much you have watched in the replay dude.

...But if Webber was on a 2 stop strategy he need not have done anything to lose that excellent opportunity he had to win the race

Webber was the only driver in the top 8 to do a 3-stop strategy. Another case of Redbull stabbing on Webber's back and not letting him do his own race. Webber had no reason to stop on a 14 lap stint on the HARD tyres. Most drivers on HARD tyres were able to do 22 laps!

When Vettel passed Grosjean on Lap 38, GRO had completed about 10 laps and had to do 16 more laps on those tyres to get to the end of the race. There was no point fighting the Redbull killing his tyres and going back for another stop. When Webber got to GRO towards the end of the race, he used his tyres but still lost to Webber in the final lap. Do watch the replay and also look at the laptimes if that helps dude

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By the way...

Last edited by anachronix : 14th October 2013 at 19:50.
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Old 14th October 2013, 20:12   #27
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Thats so much you have watched in the replay dude.

...But if Webber was on a 2 stop strategy he need not have done anything to lose that excellent opportunity he had to win the race

Webber was the only driver in the top 8 to do a 3-stop strategy. Another case of Redbull stabbing on Webber's back and not letting him do his own race. Webber had no reason to stop on a 14 lap stint on the HARD tyres. Most drivers on HARD tyres were able to do 22 laps!

When Vettel passed Grosjean on Lap 38, GRO had completed about 10 laps and had to do 16 more laps on those tyres to get to the end of the race. There was no point fighting the Redbull killing his tyres and going back for another stop. When Webber got to GRO towards the end of the race, he used his tyres but still lost to Webber in the final lap. Do watch the replay and also look at the laptimes if that helps dude
I didnt quiet understand that post.So Grosjean decided not to risk his 11 lap old tyres against Vettel but decided to risk the 16 lap old tyres by scrapping with Webber?

When Webber got to GRO at Lap46,Webber was faster than Vettel by almost 2 seconds a lap.His inability to overtake GRO at that crucial juncture cost him a shot at P1.He has only himself to blame for not winning the Japanese GP.

For the strategy adopted by RBR,here is a good read.By splitting the strategy between the drivers,RBR ended up P1 and P2 and the slots were stitched up by the crucial move on GRO.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/10/1...d-pit-stops-2/
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Old 14th October 2013, 20:38   #28
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Default Re: 2013 F1 - Japanese Grand Prix @ Suzuka

The commentators on NBC sports openly said that RBR brought in Webber early in his middle stint so as to slow him down & give Vetter a better shot at winning.

I hope he could've passed Romain as soon as he caught up with him. Not only would it have kept his tires in better shape but it would've been fun to see him attack crybaby Vettel.

Nico H drove a good race but took a really long time to pass Daniel Ricardo

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Old 14th October 2013, 21:07   #29
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So Webber couldnt pass GRO, that was the problem right? You are unable to understand the fact that if RBR had put Webber on the faster 2-Stop he wouldnt have been there behind GRO in that part of the race?

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When Webber got to GRO at Lap46,Webber was faster than Vettel by almost 2 seconds a lap.His inability to overtake GRO at that crucial juncture cost him a shot at P1.He has only himself to blame for not winning the Japanese GP.
Thats not just a good article dude, its a beautiful article! For RedBull the 1-2 need not be always VET - WEB, they can hand it over to the faster driver when the championship situation is looking sweet for them in drivers & constructors. I am with Webber on this, even today RBR gave a blunt explanation for putting Webber on a 3-Stopper.

On a lighter note, I will still get a poster of that article dude

Quote:
For the strategy adopted by RBR,here is a good read.By splitting the strategy between the drivers,RBR ended up P1 and P2 and the slots were stitched up by the crucial move on GRO.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/10/1...d-pit-stops-2/
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Old 14th October 2013, 21:19   #30
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So Webber couldnt pass GRO, that was the problem right? You are unable to understand the fact that if RBR had put Webber on the faster 2-Stop he wouldnt have been there behind GRO in that part of the race?



Thats not just a good article dude, its a beautiful article! For RedBull the 1-2 need not be always VET - WEB, they can hand it over to the faster driver when the championship situation is looking sweet for them in drivers & constructors. I am with Webber on this, even today RBR gave a blunt explanation for putting Webber on a 3-Stopper.

On a lighter note, I will still get a poster of that article dude
Yes that precisely was the problem.We will never know what would have happened had Webber stayed on a 2 stopper like GRO and Vettel.Maybe he would have won,maybe GRO would have won or maybe Vettel could have won.So I dont want to second guess.

Given the current circusmstances,my point simply is that,Webber could have made the 3 stopper work brilliantly had he managed that overtake.

Faster driver - if you are talking about that 2 seconds faster than Vettel comment,then you do realise it was made possible only becoz of the 3 stop strategy by RBR,dont you ?
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