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Old 12th May 2014, 01:59   #31
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

So what Mercedes told is right. It is no other team but Red Bull that can give them some competition during the race.
Vettel's driving was simply phenomenal. 15th to 4th, that's some serious stuff. Was expecting alot more from Kimi and Alonso.

I think this season it is going to be an all Mercedes and Ricciardo show with a Williams thrown in between.(?)

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Old 12th May 2014, 10:54   #32
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

Started off really boring, but ended great. Love seeing Lewis and Nico fighting to the end.

Good drive for Bottas in the Williams, even better drive for Vettel coming from 15th. Good job to Ricardo for his "first" podium as well.

On to Monaco!
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Old 12th May 2014, 11:35   #33
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

Fairly interesting race for a Spanish GP. Rosberg needs to get 2 things right.
- Saturday's
- his starts

He's lost at least 2 of the 4 GPs to LH because of that. Though yesterday there seemed to be more traffic than usual.

But good on Merc to allow both the drivers to fight.

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Originally Posted by Octane_Power View Post
So what Mercedes told is right. It is no other team but Red Bull that can give them some competition during the race.
Not sure if that's true. 1st 4 races, the 2nd placed team (not driver) was usually upto 30 secs behind the Merc. Yesterday it was 50. I don't think any team is catching the Mercs so far. Ferrari & FI seem to have gone backwards in Barcelona.
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Old 12th May 2014, 12:07   #34
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

A very uneventful race as always in Catalunya except for the Mercedes fight towards the end and keeping it more lively. I doubt if any team would catch the Mercedes this year, they are going to dominate the season like no other team in F1 ever did. We can only wait to see how 2015 unfolds when teams would be allowed to upgrade their powerunit.

The Redbulls are easily the 2nd best cars out there, they have amazing traction through slow corners and the way they could pass cars at weird part of the circuit was everything down to traction. Vettel did a brilliant job to finish 4th from 15th and their pit calls were spot on. Still, Daniel has the upper hand when it comes to outright pace this year and that must be killing Vettel.

The Williams is clearly 3rd fastest, but... they dont have the right drivers to take the cars to positions that it deserves. Bottas did only better to hang on the top 5 while Massa was being Massa and did not do any good ending without points.

Ferrari, less said the better I guess. Reminded me of the dialogs between Niki Lauda and a Ferrari mechanic in the Rush movie.

Niki Lauda: [Testing his Ferrari at Fiorano] It's terrible. Drives like a pig.
Lauda's Mechanic: [Offended] Oh, you can't say that.
Niki Lauda: Why not?
Lauda's Mechanic: It's a Ferrari!
Niki Lauda: It's a shitbox! It under-steers like crazy and the weight distribution is a disaster. It's amazing - all these facilities, and you make a piece of crap like this.


Its so frustrating to see them do so bad at a circuit where its more about the chassis than the powerunit. Their traction out of slow speed corners were awful. They are going to struggle awfully in Monaco unless they are bringing the rumored F14T'B' chassis by then.

Their strategy call to bring in Alonso first as well sounds very complicated. Clearly, Kimi didnt like it at all! There were tweets about long discussions in the Ferrari motorhome after the race between Kimi and Ferrari engineers. Like all the trouble within the team to perform was not enough, they are only making things more complicated.

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Old 23rd May 2014, 11:16   #35
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
A very uneventful race as always in Catalunya except for the Mercedes fight towards the end and keeping it more lively. I doubt if any team would catch the Mercedes this year, they are going to dominate the season like no other team in F1 ever did. We can only wait to see how 2015 unfolds when teams would be allowed to upgrade their powerunit.

The Redbulls are easily the 2nd best cars out there, they have amazing traction through slow corners and the way they could pass cars at weird part of the circuit was everything down to traction. Vettel did a brilliant job to finish 4th from 15th and their pit calls were spot on. Still, Daniel has the upper hand when it comes to outright pace this year and that must be killing Vettel.

The Williams is clearly 3rd fastest, but... they dont have the right drivers to take the cars to positions that it deserves. Bottas did only better to hang on the top 5 while Massa was being Massa and did not do any good ending without points.

Ferrari, less said the better I guess. Reminded me of the dialogs between Niki Lauda and a Ferrari mechanic in the Rush movie.

Niki Lauda: [Testing his Ferrari at Fiorano] It's terrible. Drives like a pig.
Lauda's Mechanic: [Offended] Oh, you can't say that.
Niki Lauda: Why not?
Lauda's Mechanic: It's a Ferrari!
Niki Lauda: It's a shitbox! It under-steers like crazy and the weight distribution is a disaster. It's amazing - all these facilities, and you make a piece of crap like this.


Its so frustrating to see them do so bad at a circuit where its more about the chassis than the powerunit. Their traction out of slow speed corners were awful. They are going to struggle awfully in Monaco unless they are bringing the rumored F14T'B' chassis by then.

Their strategy call to bring in Alonso first as well sounds very complicated. Clearly, Kimi didnt like it at all! There were tweets about long discussions in the Ferrari motorhome after the race between Kimi and Ferrari engineers. Like all the trouble within the team to perform was not enough, they are only making things more complicated.



Have you heard Di Montezemolo's statements whenever asked about Alonso ? He harps on and on about how hes the best in the world etc etc.

Clearly their sole aim is to please Fernando. I actually thought Kimi might have cleared a LOT of things before going back to those idiotic Italians but it seems it hasnt really worked...theyr STILL at it.

He demanded an apology from Luca before coming back i think he should demand 1000 sit ups from him this time around. Appalling...just appalling.
As if this season wasnt bad enough for him & Ferrari come out and do this. Even behind all that 'Iceman' demeanor one could see he was extremely upset with what had happened.

He should just retire at the end of the season and race elsewhere or just concentrate on his team.

Ferrari can themselves.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 11:32   #36
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

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Have you heard Di Montezemolo's statements whenever asked about Alonso ? He harps on and on about how hes the best in the world etc etc.

Clearly their sole aim is to please Fernando. I actually thought Kimi might have cleared a LOT of things before going back to those idiotic Italians but it seems it hasnt really worked...theyr STILL at it.

He demanded an apology from Luca before coming back i think he should demand 1000 sit ups from him this time around. Appalling...just appalling.
As if this season wasnt bad enough for him & Ferrari come out and do this. Even behind all that 'Iceman' demeanor one could see he was extremely upset with what had happened.

He should just retire at the end of the season and race elsewhere or just concentrate on his team.

Ferrari can themselves.
The most widely acknowledged best driver in the world comes to the most successful F1 team in history and gets a sub standard car compared to its rivals, miles off from the race winner, 2 seasons where they are somewhere in the ball park he pulls off a near impossible WDC win.

Ferrari have greater expectations and commitment in F1 than any other team. It is their only form of advertisment and their largest branding exercise. The frustration of not winning a title for all these years is bound to affect people.. Sounds quite normal to me to manage this.

IMO, Ferrari should actually have asked Kimi to move over.. we saw how quick fernando was, making an extra stop work, keeping pace with Vettel in the 2nd last stint all this after being stuck behind Kimi for half the race.
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Old 24th May 2014, 10:40   #37
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

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IMO, Ferrari should actually have asked Kimi to move over.. we saw how quick fernando was, making an extra stop work, keeping pace with Vettel in the 2nd last stint all this after being stuck behind Kimi for half the race.
Make no mistake, thats precisely what they WANT kimi to do, lol... Move over. Problem for them is , hes no Massa.
Another thing i dont understand is this 'stuck behind kimi' phrase all Alonso fans have been using.
He was able to overtake Kimi ONLY once he was on fresher tyres and rest of the race when they were on similar tyres not only were their lap times comparable but Fernando was UNABLE to overtake Kimi & im not saying it...he did himself in one of the interviews.
Widely acknowledged best driver right ? Then why dont you overtake yourself ?? Why are you stuck behind Kimi ? That Ferrari are given him a crap car for years and that he hasnt won a WDC because of Ferrari frankly isnt Kimi's problem, its Fernandos and Ferrari's.
So i am shocked when you even suggest they should have asked Kimi to move over. They havnt signed him to move over for Alonso. Besides lets not talk about bad luck and frustration since for that you can just have a look at Kimi's entire career. Alonso atleast has 2.
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Old 24th May 2014, 16:43   #38
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

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Make no mistake, thats precisely what they WANT kimi to do, lol... Move over. Problem for them is , hes no Massa.
Another thing i dont understand is this 'stuck behind kimi' phrase all Alonso fans have been using.
He was able to overtake Kimi ONLY once he was on fresher tyres and rest of the race when they were on similar tyres not only were their lap times comparable but Fernando was UNABLE to overtake Kimi & im not saying it...he did himself in one of the interviews.
Widely acknowledged best driver right ? Then why dont you overtake yourself ?? Why are you stuck behind Kimi ? That Ferrari are given him a crap car for years and that he hasnt won a WDC because of Ferrari frankly isnt Kimi's problem, its Fernandos and Ferrari's.
So i am shocked when you even suggest they should have asked Kimi to move over. They havnt signed him to move over for Alonso. Besides lets not talk about bad luck and frustration since for that you can just have a look at Kimi's entire career. Alonso atleast has 2.
Why should it matter if it is Massa or Kimi or Alonso himself? If Vettel can pull over for Ricciardo, why do you make it driver specific?

Spain is among the most difficult tracks to overtake at, the difference needs to be atleast 1 second between cars. If Kimi was that much slower on identical tires he would be back rallying.

If Alonso would have been allowed through, he would have quite easily finished in P4, ahead of Vettel (11s) and Bottas (8s).

Last edited by Hatari : 24th May 2014 at 16:48.
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Old 25th May 2014, 08:58   #39
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

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Why should it matter if it is Massa or Kimi or Alonso himself? If Vettel can pull over for Ricciardo, why do you make it driver specific?

Spain is among the most difficult tracks to overtake at, the difference needs to be atleast 1 second between cars. If Kimi was that much slower on identical tires he would be back rallying.

If Alonso would have been allowed through, he would have quite easily finished in P4, ahead of Vettel (11s) and Bottas (8s).

Your just proving my point. You hence imply Kimi was NOT slower right ? Why move over for Ze King then ?
I make it driver specific since that is exactly how you put it my friend. What is the point of comparing Vettel and Riccardo to whats happening at Ferrari ?

RBR are second behind Mercedes and at this point and if there is anyone who seems remotely close to challenging them its RBR so what they do with their drivers is based on their own strategies to catch Merc as much as they can.

But here, the way you make it sound.....'move over for Fernando so he can get xyz points.' Really ? Why bother racing then ? Park your cars aside, let Fernando go through. I would have also probably taken your point if Alonso was in some sort of reckoning for the WDC but no matter how much you wish that be true, lets face it ...HE REALLY ISNT.

Yes he would have closed the gap on points to the Merc drivers but by how much ? Spain was supposed to be the race where all the 'big' developments come in and after that if Ferrari are still so far behind neither ferrari driver stands a chance. I would LOVE to have seen if Fernando would have moved over in a similar situation. Last i remember he really didnt like it when he was pushed (2007).

Last edited by PlatzdaTurbo : 25th May 2014 at 09:00.
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Old 25th May 2014, 12:20   #40
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

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Your just proving my point. You hence imply Kimi was NOT slower right ? Why move over for Ze King then ?
I make it driver specific since that is exactly how you put it my friend. What is the point of comparing Vettel and Riccardo to whats happening at Ferrari ?

RBR are second behind Mercedes and at this point and if there is anyone who seems remotely close to challenging them its RBR so what they do with their drivers is based on their own strategies to catch Merc as much as they can.

But here, the way you make it sound.....'move over for Fernando so he can get xyz points.' Really ? Why bother racing then ? Park your cars aside, let Fernando go through. I would have also probably taken your point if Alonso was in some sort of reckoning for the WDC but no matter how much you wish that be true, lets face it ...HE REALLY ISNT.

Yes he would have closed the gap on points to the Merc drivers but by how much ? Spain was supposed to be the race where all the 'big' developments come in and after that if Ferrari are still so far behind neither ferrari driver stands a chance. I would LOVE to have seen if Fernando would have moved over in a similar situation. Last i remember he really didnt like it when he was pushed (2007).
Let me spell it out.

In the 3rd stint with both drivers on Hards, Alo was an avg 8 tenths a lap quicker than Kimi, who went 5 laps longer (21 laps in total). Allowing for that, the difference still stand at 4-5 tenths. Multiply that over a race distance.
Theres your answer.

Look at it objectively. The logic is simple. A slower driver should not hold back his team mate if it going to cost the team points. What happened with Seb and Dan is the best example of team orders.

So your theory is either race for the WDC or forget it completely.. No point fighting for places 2/3?
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Old 25th May 2014, 15:03   #41
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Default Re: 2014 Spanish GP - Circuit de Catalunya - Race Thread

Kimi was on Used HARDs vs Alonso's New HARD tires. Hence the difference in time. Kimi went on to finish the race with the Used Hard tires while Alonso had the extra stop with Medium. If Alonso is still not faster than Kimi, he wont be driving a Ferrari.

A dreadful race for Kimi and I am sure he made his voice heard in the Ferrari pit garage.

http://magazine.pzero.com/cms-web/up...dPrix-Race.pdf

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
In the 3rd stint with both drivers on Hards, Alo was an avg 8 tenths a lap quicker than Kimi, who went 5 laps longer (21 laps in total). Allowing for that, the difference still stand at 4-5 tenths. Multiply that over a race distance.
Theres your answer.
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Old 25th May 2014, 16:26   #42
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Kimi was on Used HARDs vs Alonso's New HARD tires. Hence the difference in time. Kimi went on to finish the race with the Used Hard tires while Alonso had the extra stop with Medium. If Alonso is still not faster than Kimi, he wont be driving a Ferrari.

A dreadful race for Kimi and I am sure he made his voice heard in the Ferrari pit garage.

http://magazine.pzero.com/cms-web/up...dPrix-Race.pdf
The diff between new and used hard tires is no where close to 8 tenths.
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Old 25th May 2014, 16:45   #43
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Yes not between new vs old, but the difference between a driver going to the finish on used hard tires vs a driver who is on new hard tires and has another stop to make will be close.

Where was 8 tenths fast Alonso in the 2nd stint? He caught Kimi limping on those hards with only 4 laps to go. Doesn't add up at all! And Alonso was struggling to stay in Kimi's DRS zone all through and passes him only with the faster strategy at the very end of the race with the faster tires.

And where did you get this 8 tenths number, the lap charts don't indicate that magnitude of difference until the final stint of both drivers and Alonso was on the faster mediums.

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The diff between new and used hard tires is no where close to 8 tenths.

Last edited by anachronix : 25th May 2014 at 17:03.
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Old 25th May 2014, 17:04   #44
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So your theory is either race for the WDC or forget it completely.. No point fighting for places 2/3?

Thanks for spelling it out. I am now enlightened.

My point is actually hidden in the above statement of yours. FIGHT for your position.....just because the concerned driver is your favorite doesnt mean people move over for him.
I am infact happy Kimi didnt move over like youd have liked and il be happier if he continues that. As it is Alonso has Ferrari licking his feet so the only team here is Alonso & Ferrari.

About your whole 8/10th second theory, i repeat i am not claiming Alonso couldnt overtake Kimi on similar tyres, he said it himself.
So i dont get why are you trying to defend him against a statement which he made himself.

Kimi made a mistake coming back to this wretched team. But now while he is here , alonso would be highly mistaken if he is delusional enough to believe Kimi is going to move over
To end it, i dont agree with you and you wont with me so lets not bother with this anymore. At this stage what you want is happening ie Alonso ahead so enjoy it.

Thanks !

Last edited by PlatzdaTurbo : 25th May 2014 at 17:07.
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Old 26th May 2014, 11:13   #45
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Yes not between new vs old, but the difference between a driver going to the finish on used hard tires vs a driver who is on new hard tires and has another stop to make will be close.

Where was 8 tenths fast Alonso in the 2nd stint? He caught Kimi limping on those hards with only 4 laps to go. Doesn't add up at all! And Alonso was struggling to stay in Kimi's DRS zone all through and passes him only with the faster strategy at the very end of the race with the faster tires.

And where did you get this 8 tenths number, the lap charts don't indicate that magnitude of difference until the final stint of both drivers and Alonso was on the faster mediums.
Thats the reason i made the difference to be 4-5 tenths and not 8, because Kimi did 5 laps more (16 vs 21)
Now 4-5 tenths at Spain is no where close to what is required to pass a driver. We have all watched F1 long enough to know that.

Go to F1Matrix.it, select Spain and then Race.


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Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
Thanks for spelling it out. I am now enlightened.

My point is actually hidden in the above statement of yours. FIGHT for your position.....just because the concerned driver is your favorite doesnt mean people move over for him.
I am infact happy Kimi didnt move over like youd have liked and il be happier if he continues that. As it is Alonso has Ferrari licking his feet so the only team here is Alonso & Ferrari.

About your whole 8/10th second theory, i repeat i am not claiming Alonso couldnt overtake Kimi on similar tyres, he said it himself.
So i dont get why are you trying to defend him against a statement which he made himself.

Kimi made a mistake coming back to this wretched team. But now while he is here , alonso would be highly mistaken if he is delusional enough to believe Kimi is going to move over
To end it, i dont agree with you and you wont with me so lets not bother with this anymore. At this stage what you want is happening ie Alonso ahead so enjoy it.

Thanks !
You are again making this about drivers, clearly showing emotions against Alonso. Which is fine, but I am not.

F1 is a team sport. Fighting should never happen at the cost of points for the team. Surprised you dont see that.

Forget the golden boys, feet licking , ass kissing etc etc. Lets refer then to a more objective case where the identical was on the line (Team points) : Ric vs Vet.
If the situation was reversed. i.e. Ric having to move over for the 4 time WDC RB fav Vet. You would have said the same thing.. No 2 status/Seb golden boy and all that.

But its not is it. The faster driver was allowed through because there was nothing to be gained by his slower team mate holding him up.
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