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Old 19th June 2014, 07:38   #16
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Its a conundrum for Ferrari I feel.

Surely, you cannot stop when you are losing, that's called quitting. And for the sport' most glamorous and oldest brand, it will make very very bad press for years to come.

And as always with motor racing, if and when you are winning, you will continue to do so for many seasons together. So, how and when do you pull the plug? Its certainly not an easy question to answer.

And I for one don't think F1 is losing its way with the smaller V6 engines coupled with hybrids. Like it or not, the internal combustion engine is going to take a backseat everywhere. First in racing, next the niche market, and then all around us. The hybrid units (With the hardcore LaFerrari on one end and the boring and ultra efficient Prius on the other) has already made huge inroads into main stream car manufacturing and F1 being the crown jewel of motorsports should be at the forefront driving this change. But I am all for removing the fuel consumption limit, fuel flow limit and ban on refueling. I don't mind downsizing of engines, but the drivers should be allowed to go flat out from lights to flag.

And regarding the sound of engine, people who have attended the races track side are loving it. What F1 spectators say about the engine noise debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julien@F1Fanatic
The V6 is very enjoyable to listen to. You hear much more different sounds. At full speed the cars still sound incredible, not screaming but a more heavy noise. As the cars are braking you hear a sort of whizz, in the middle of the corner the cars sound like a standing aeroplane, and you hear the turbo and ERS working together with the engine when the cars accelerate.

Although the sound is very different, it is still unique and impressive in my opinion. TV viewers might be disappointed with the sound, but in real life the sound is much better.
So, it seems we, the TV viewers who form the bulk of audience is getting the raw deal. And that should be fixed.

And I do miss the glorious grunt of those screaming V10s. The first time I heard on TV, I was left spellbound, and I am still hitched to the sport. Don't think it can happen to the newer generation! These guys should find a solution to that.

Edit:
And when they are at it, the aesthetics should also be sorted. None of the current cars will find a place on my bedroom walls and doors with their ugly nose except for the W05. And the Mercedes too is just a half nosed king. I quite like fast cars, but I adore fast and beautiful ones.

Last edited by deetjohn : 19th June 2014 at 07:55. Reason: adding text.
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Old 19th June 2014, 13:59   #17
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Totally agree to your point about moving to a FI Engine along with the ERS and their technology transfer to road cars. While R&D cost for developing these engines is a part of the expense for the engine suppliers, the parts cost and the development cost when the engines are bought by smaller teams have increased about 3 times compared to the V8 spec. Its only sensible for the bigger teams or engine manufacturers to sustain in the sport. Caterham is already in crisis and there are rumors about Collin Kolles buying it over along with Romanian investors. It will be more as the bigger teams start to make progress.

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
The costs are huge, though the current V6s will be the platform for years to come. One should not look at it from a 2014 perspective only. Power.. thats logical is it not. This ties in with the FIA objective of keeping speeds in check. Andy Cowell has gone on record that the current engines are the most efficient ones ever produced and there is already a transfer happening to road cars with huge potential still.
Yes, thats only 874 cars from the example I quoted in my earlier post. The aero tech from F1 has been going to road cars even as early as the Ferrari F40 days. Jaguar working with Williams F1 team is another example.

Quote:
Coming to LaFerrari and the P1. Ofcourse that is the objective, to make cars closest to F1 as technologically possible. But how many cars does that make precisey 499 + 375 = 874. Out of how many!!! Do the math. That is why I said minimal transfer in aero.
So its a spec series, if not for the engines?

Quote:
Spec series - I only mean standardizing/rationalizing aero spends. and I still wait for you to put out your thoughts on the current scenario since you have issues with mine.
If FIA stops making BIG rule changes every other year, it will be a good start. It will allow the smaller teams to use their available budget more efficiently. F1 is already safer, a lot safer than all the other Motorsports I have been following and FIA should stop making these rule changes in the name of safety trying to slow down cars. Look what they have done now, the teams are already hitting top speeds of 330KM/H in Canada which is a medium d/f circuit. I cant imagine what the cars could do in Monza or Spa. How did they slow down cars for safety, I dont know if they were trying to slow down lap times!

Quote:
The honeymoon of near unlimited tobacco money is long gone. Only Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull have the money. How will you cut costs when these 3 want to out spend everyone else.
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Old 19th June 2014, 14:13   #18
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

In a sport where the difference between cars is less than a second, then only introducing variables into cars makes racing interesting. I feel the following things should change.

1. Tyres- Better quality tyres please. Now within first couple of laps the commentators starts discussing about how "short" the tyres will last. The drivers starts complaining about tyres and they stop pushing to the limit. The current state of F1 tyres are doing no good for Pirelli brand either. What confidence does the customer have to buy a Pirelli tyre on the Monday after the race ?

2. Refueling - I am a fan of refueling during race. It varies load on cars are tyres and encourages drivers to push more to make up or defend their pitstops. Yes it involves cost, but the excitement for fans is worth it.

3. DRS - Remove the DRS. DRS is like if one guy is behind you within 1s, he has the right to overtake. It only reduces the initiative from drivers to try overtaking in other areas of track. And this kills racing, why one should see overtaking only on single part of race track.

4. Fuel limit - Good for efficiency ? Yes, but racing ?No Why would anyone want to increase efficiency on car which is always suppose to pushed to the limit. Anyway drivers always shift up at redline, so it is not helping it either.
For F1 the efficiency should come from weight. Less fuel, less weight which means better lap times, as simple as that.

The excitement in F1 should come from cars, drivers and race strategy. Each should have equal say in the racing. Now the race is ran as per computer simulation with very less real time involvement. Also no driver is told to push harder, but to drive slow to keep tyres and fuel and they call this racing!
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Old 19th June 2014, 15:36   #19
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear had a theory about Ferrari and F1. Whenever Maranello makes mediocre cars the F1 team are winning titles. Whenever they make good road cars the F1 department struggles. Kind of right in a way!

This is all nothing but a hoax from the media. I doubt Ferrari can quit F1 and F1 cannot let Ferrari go. It could be that we have had RBR, Brawn GP but if one looks at the spectator stands at any GP, its all covered in red. F1 survives because of the existence of the Prancing Horse.

Coming to the rules, I absolutely agree that the ever changing rules has made it ever so difficult for a lay man to follow. Ive looked at getting my friends hooked on the sport and its just too hard to explain the strategies concerning the tyres and fuel loads and so on especially this season. No doubts the lower capacity engines have made it even more boring since the 'noise' phenomena is completely nullified now.

Why did they ever get rid of re-fuelling? if anyone asks me, it has taken away the probability of seeing a mid-field car grab a last minute pole since they chose to run on fumes and gain grid position (remember webber in the jag at sepang). Whoever has the fastest car will get pole. I dont even bother watching qualifying and has been the case for the past 3 years now.

I dont expect Ferrari to get much support from other teams. The mercedes powered teams are having a dream run and it seems the Renault powered engines are creeping up from behind and going past the Ferrari's. Its another frustrating couple years for the tifosi.

Whats even more sad to see is the wasted talent of Alonso. A guy who could easily have had 2-3 titles more has had to deal with a mediocre car and watch himself grow old without any success. I feel bad for the fella.
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Old 20th June 2014, 12:31   #20
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Budget issues ? Overspending ? Reduce the amount of races. I dont mind waiting for 2 MORE weekends each month and seeing just 14 or 15 races a year instead of the current ~19-20 if it means at the end of those 2 extra weeks i get TOTAL PURE DRAMA.

- Loud, screaming V10s

- No KERS, DRS rubbish. ONLY PURE OVERTAKES BASED ON SKILL

- No Pirelli. I dont think they have done the sport any good. Quite the opposite infact.

- Get back Bridgestone & Michelin. Let the teams choose what they want.

- Re-introduce in-season engine development so teams can continue to remain competitive for as long as their budget & development program allows them.

- Keep pre-season testing limited so costs can be saved THERE !

- Re-introduce fueling in pitstops but limit fuel per race to an extent that teams have to plan their race but not so hardcore that one is forced to see a Formula 1 car, which is the epitome of motorsport doing an eco-drive at say....Spa or Monza !

PLEASE do this FIA ! Let the apex of racing remain what it is and not be reduced to a bigger joke than it already is !

Last edited by PlatzdaTurbo : 20th June 2014 at 12:32.
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Old 21st June 2014, 17:49   #21
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Rules changes have definitely taken the sheen off the sport, absolutely no doubt about it. This at the same time shows Ferrari's Inability to compete with changing demographics, when was the last time we actually saw a Ferrari dominate race track in last 3-4 years, compared to time before that.
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Old 25th June 2014, 11:51   #22
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
So its a spec series, if not for the engines?


If FIA stops making BIG rule changes every other year, it will be a good start. It will allow the smaller teams to use their available budget more efficiently. F1 is already safer, a lot safer than all the other Motorsports I have been following and FIA should stop making these rule changes in the name of safety trying to slow down cars. Look what they have done now, the teams are already hitting top speeds of 330KM/H in Canada which is a medium d/f circuit. I cant imagine what the cars could do in Monza or Spa. How did they slow down cars for safety, I dont know if they were trying to slow down lap times!
They can compete on Power Units-Engines-Regeneration-Batteries/Chassis-Suspension-tire management/Electronics/Clutch-Gearbox systems/Materials (Carbon fibre usage in top end road cars today owes its inclusion to F1) Now we have it on Sunglasses and watches too!

If I were to assume a no., collective spends on Aero in F1 per season, I would guess the figure to be a minimum of $250 million (including apportioned wind tunnel fixed cost/model build cost/personnel etc). All this for an avg lap time gain of 2.5s a lap over the course of a season. (taking a maximum figure here) This season, exhaust gases cannot be directed for aero gain which played a big role last few years.. so there's less to play with.

I dont think the FIA are as concerned with high straight line speeds as they are with high cornering speeds.
But I agree, rather than reducing speed they should focus on increased safety still. HANS for Eg, has been a great innovation, driver specific rather than in car.
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Old 25th June 2014, 12:44   #23
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Smile Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

F1 is all about the Formula! If we are complaining the formula(rules) is changing every year we are missing something! The rules are supposed to change.

My excitement in F1 is about Formula changes and engineers doing everything to stay inside formula to get the best results! Earlier days, formula was about speed, now it is on efficiency. Who knows tomorrow it could be more concentrated on agility(suspension setup and steering)!

This cat mouse game between formula makers and team engineers makes things wonderful! Also do we really need a good sounding car when sound another waste product from the engine - decreasing its efficiency?

We now have kinetic and heat energy recovery systems, but going forward we may have sound energy recovery systems too - paving way to quieter cars, quieter trucks and may be quieter airplanes ! I wish to see formula concentrating on reducing voice(and hence noise pollution) than having loud noise causing ears to pop just for an adrenalin rush! We still have pop music for that!

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Old 25th June 2014, 13:05   #24
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Default Re: Ferrari to quit Formula One? Nope!

Ferrari have already resigned to their fate. They have stated quite openly in the media that this year is a lost cause. Which is true, the gap to Mercedes is so huge that its unlikely that even next year anyone can challenge them. Its wise for Ferrari to dump the fight for this year and focus on next years car.

I wonder what happened to the special meeting called by Ferrari at their head-quarters. They even spoke about multinationals like Apple & Google joining the discussions.Sponsorship maybe?
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