Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Motor-Sports > Int'l Motorsport


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th September 2014, 09:01   #31
Distinguished - BHPian
 
deetjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kochi
Posts: 3,890
Thanked: 6,654 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

James Allen has some very close sources at Ferrari and he is usually very good at breaking news from Italy.

Here is what he says on his latest column, Planet F1 has taken excerpts from this article. ALONSO FRUSTRATED BY RUMOURS, CONSIDERING HONDA – WHICH WAY TO GO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAonF1
Alonso will also be disappointed at some of the rejections, which apparently have come in this year from engineers whom Ferrari has attempted to lure to the team. There have been some acceptances too and the team say we should expect some news about the names coming in, but one senses from Italian colleagues that the rejections tell their own story.

According to Italian colleagues, Ferrari doesn’t want to give Alonso some of the guarantees he is seeking and Alonso has told Ferrari he wants to leave. Mattiacci said cryptically on Sunday night that Alonso was set to stay with the team “for the moment”.

Veteran F1 journalist Pino Allievi told me at the weekend that if Alonso wants to leave, with two years of contract with Ferrari still outstanding, then he has to pay €30 million. Honda would sign that off without hesitation, sources suggest.

In the days when Ross Brawn ran Honda’s F1 team, they identified Alonso as the main target but could never get him. That desire has not diminished.
An exit looks very likely.
deetjohn is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 10:49   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
Hatari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 1,568
Thanked: 364 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_V View Post
Remember that Mclaren's past few cars were as good or better than Ferrari. Their WDC/WCC challenges fell apart because of poor strategy/decisions. Recently they have lost a bit of their team personnel so I don't know how much it has affected them. In short Mclaren does not make lemons, this year is an exception.
On the contrary, Ferrari have made the past few cars better than McLaren and almost won 2 WDCs.

Paddy Lowe left the team, they allowed Lewis to leave the team. This was not expected of a team. They have had 2 very poor years, back to back, 2013 & 2014. This year especially has been a disaster, with Merc engines they should have been challenging Red Bull.

Honda's return is what brings back confidence.

Ferrari too are rebuilding, apart from the ongoing engine fiasco, the windtunnel fiasco is behind them, so there are positive signs. If they can improve the engine till February, Allison should deliver a quicker car.

The mistake Ferrari made in the past was not to embrace the aero route F1 was taking, Luca M despised wind tunnels and that showed.
Hatari is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 11:45   #33
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 172
Thanked: 67 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
On the contrary, Ferrari have made the past few cars better than McLaren and almost won 2 WDCs.

Paddy Lowe left the team, they allowed Lewis to leave the team. This was not expected of a team. They have had 2 very poor years, back to back, 2013 & 2014. This year especially has been a disaster, with Merc engines they should have been challenging Red Bull.

Honda's return is what brings back confidence.

Ferrari too are rebuilding, apart from the ongoing engine fiasco, the windtunnel fiasco is behind them, so there are positive signs. If they can improve the engine till February, Allison should deliver a quicker car.

The mistake Ferrari made in the past was not to embrace the aero route F1 was taking, Luca M despised wind tunnels and that showed.
Apart from 2010, Alonso never had a car matching Red Bull's pace as much as Mclaren. Some races Ferrari was very good, but overall Mclaren had better pace. Here is one : remember Lewis hounding Vettel in Austin track, and winning it?

In 2011,2012 and 2013; Ferrari has won 6 races. Whereas Mclaren have won 13 races.
Blue_V is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 12:06   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,233
Thanked: 1,221 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

No top F1 team has managed to make lemons after the past decade of F1. Redbull & Newey really set the benchmark very high for other teams from 2009, with all their struggles with their windtunnel, there was still a Ferrari & Alonso giving the nightmare for Vettel's driver championship dreams. They came very close, twice!

In the current season, with the top engine on the grid a legendary team like Mclaren is struggling at the 6th position. Thats height of under performing with all the exotic facilities they have in MTC. But then, people love to talk about struggling Ferrari too, right

If Alonso wants to make a move from Ferrari, Redbull will be the only sensible choice. Even then, there is a smiling Australian who is waiting to make any driver's life, HELL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_V View Post
Remember that Mclaren's past few cars were as good or better than Ferrari. Their WDC/WCC challenges fell apart because of poor strategy/decisions. Recently they have lost a bit of their team personnel so I don't know how much it has affected them. In short Mclaren does not make lemons, this year is an exception.
anachronix is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 25th September 2014, 13:25   #35
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 172
Thanked: 67 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Look at the qualifying results from 2011,2012 and 2013. Mclaren were much closer to Red Bull. Bad luck, bad decisions and strategies let down Lewis more than often. Whitmarsh thought bringing in Button would help Mclaren. It actually made Lewis leave the team. They put their focus on solving Button's issues, 'no balance' remember? , rather than gun for pace with Lewis and WDC in mind.

2011: Fernando was 4th in WDC with just 1 win.
Mclaren 6 wins.

2012: Ferrari was a nightmare to begin with. Horrible handling, their qualifying pace left them almost mid grid. Yes this was the year Pastor won. A chronic problem Ferrari has developed is poor traction out of slow corners, watch the videos from previous years, the drivers cannot power out of the corner without the car stepping out.
8 poles for Mclaren, 2 poles for Ferrari.
7 wins for Mclaren, 3 wins for Ferrari.

So you still think Ferrari was better than Mclaren? Ferrari's struggles are like soap opera though Luca joking about sending the team some knives on somebody's birthday.

Last edited by Blue_V : 25th September 2014 at 13:30.
Blue_V is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 25th September 2014, 15:06   #36
BHPian
 
polopm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 438
Thanked: 120 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_V View Post
Look at the qualifying results from 2011,2012 and 2013. Mclaren were much closer to Red Bull. Bad luck, bad decisions and strategies let down Lewis more than often. Whitmarsh thought bringing in Button would help Mclaren. It actually made Lewis leave the team. They put their focus on solving Button's issues, 'no balance' remember? , rather than gun for pace with Lewis and WDC in mind.

2011: Fernando was 4th in WDC with just 1 win.
Mclaren 6 wins.

2012: Ferrari was a nightmare to begin with. Horrible handling, their qualifying pace left them almost mid grid. Yes this was the year Pastor won. A chronic problem Ferrari has developed is poor traction out of slow corners, watch the videos from previous years, the drivers cannot power out of the corner without the car stepping out.
8 poles for Mclaren, 2 poles for Ferrari.
7 wins for Mclaren, 3 wins for Ferrari.

So you still think Ferrari was better than Mclaren? Ferrari's struggles are like soap opera though Luca joking about sending the team some knives on somebody's birthday.
He's "No Grip" button !!

McLaren & Ferrari are in similar holes. Williams is bouncing back courtesy Pat Symonds + Mercedes engines.

Lets see next year where this soap opera goes.
polopm is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 15:13   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Red Bull already has 2 top class drivers in Vettel and Ricciardo. If Vettel decides to move out, that would be primarily because of the fact that he would not get undivided attention and car development that focuses on his strengths. Same stuff applies to Alonso as well. In Ferrari or in McLaren, he would be able to ensure that the car development focuses on his strong areas so that he can make the most out of the car.

In case of Red Bull, even if Alonso joins them, it is unlikely that Ricciardo would be sidelined. So it would be a different matter altogether. Just look at Kimi in 2012-13 in Lotus where the development was optimized for him and 2014 in Ferrari where it seems more optimized for Alonso (or following a more general approach which is not optimized for Kimi anyway). Same is happening in Red Bull, where it is not just Vettel's preferences that define the development anymore. So there could be changes in the lineup but I doubt if any of them - Lewis, Alonso or Vettel would move to a team where they wouldn't be the clear #1.
zenren is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 15:38   #38
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,322
Thanked: 788 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

In my opinion, Mclarens record of the last two years speaks for itself. Despite having the best engine on the grid. Alonso's best shot at the title has come from Ferrari. Even with Vettels domination last year, it was Alonso who still contented for the WDC almost till the end of the year. He would definitely think about that before changing teams.

Honda may pay out Alonso 30 million dollar contract from Ferrari. Can they continue to pay the 40 odd million dollars (including official sponsorships but not personal sponsorships) to keep the spaniard? Ron Dennis doesnt like to dish out a lot of money on drivers. Its the team above any driver for him. He even did that with the great Ayrton Senna. There isnt anyone as tough as RD on the grid. I would be extremely surprised if Alonso goes back to him after 2007. Maybe there could be a clause saying "RD to never speak to FA during the tenure of the contract".
Fullrevs is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 15:50   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
asr245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,134
Thanked: 351 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_V View Post
Look at the qualifying results from 2011,2012 and 2013. Mclaren were much closer to Red Bull. Bad luck, bad decisions and strategies let down Lewis more than often. Whitmarsh thought bringing in Button would help Mclaren. It actually made Lewis leave the team. They put their focus on solving Button's issues, 'no balance' remember? , rather than gun for pace with Lewis and WDC in mind.
Lewis left probably more because of the pay cut he was being given at Mclaren. Another probable reason - Mclaren no longer had manufacturer support from Mercedes and would have to pay for the engines.

Mercedes offered more money, maybe more glamour & he probably had info about Paddy Lowe leaving for Mercedes.

It's strange how Button is made fun of despite being a WDC but in his 3 years with Lewis he scored more points than Lewis. IIRC, when it came to wet races, I think Button was always on top. I know he has setup/grip issues but I don't think he deserves so much criticism.
asr245 is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 16:32   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,233
Thanked: 1,221 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

You are missing the whole point, look at this stat. There was no other driver/team who came that close in the last 4 years.

2012:

Vettel : 281
Alonso: 278

2010:
Vettel - 256
Alonso - 252

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_V View Post
Look at the...
anachronix is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 17:47   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
It's strange how Button is made fun of despite being a WDC but in his 3 years with Lewis he scored more points than Lewis.
Being a WDC, he is being compared against a much more elite set of peers than what he would have been compared against if he was not. Same would have probably happened with Massa if Glock didn't run wide on the final corner in 2008 although I would say that Massa deserved the 2008 title more than Button deserved the 2009 since Massa had to fight it out with Lewis all season while Button just had to manage his lead to win the title.

His championship was purely due to the car advantage more than his driving skill. He just had to be better than Barrichello during first half of that season to win every race, similar to what we are seeing this year with Mercedes. By the time others caught up with the Brawn cars, there were not enough races to catch up Button's lead. How else would you explain Button's 6 wins out of first 7 races and 0 wins from remaining 10 races (after others caught up) in the same season? If he was really so good, he would have won at least a couple of races in the second half!

Here are the points break-up season by season. Lewis scored more points than Button in 2 of those seasons with Button beating Lewis in 2011.

2010: Lewis clearly outscores Button
240-Lewis
214-Button

2011: Button clearly outscores Lewis
270-Button
227-Lewis

2012: Tight battle - I would say a tie, though there are 2 points difference technically which is again in favour of Lewis, not Button.
190-Lewis
188-Button

Technically, Button has scored more points than Lewis during their time together because his lead in 2011 is more than the total lead of Lewis in remaining 2 seasons. Whoever came up with this statistic found a clever way to put Button on top since head to head in championships is the usual comparison where Lewis comes on top. We can find similar statistics in any driver pair where either of them is 'better' than the other.

Last edited by zenren : 25th September 2014 at 17:55.
zenren is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 18:37   #42
BHPian
 
polopm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 438
Thanked: 120 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Being a WDC, he is being compared against a much more elite set of peers than what he would have been compared against if he was not. Same would have probably happened with Massa if Glock didn't run wide on the final corner in 2008 although I would say that Massa deserved the 2008 title more than Button deserved the 2009 since Massa had to fight it out with Lewis all season while Button just had to manage his lead to win the title.

His championship was purely due to the car advantage more than his driving skill. He just had to be better than Barrichello during first half of that season to win every race, similar to what we are seeing this year with Mercedes. By the time others caught up with the Brawn cars, there were not enough races to catch up Button's lead. How else would you explain Button's 6 wins out of first 7 races and 0 wins from remaining 10 races (after others caught up) in the same season? If he was really so good, he would have won at least a couple of races in the second half!

Here are the points break-up season by season. Lewis scored more points than Button in 2 of those seasons with Button beating Lewis in 2011.

2010: Lewis clearly outscores Button
240-Lewis
214-Button

2011: Button clearly outscores Lewis
270-Button
227-Lewis

2012: Tight battle - I would say a tie, though there are 2 points difference technically which is again in favour of Lewis, not Button.
190-Lewis
188-Button

Technically, Button has scored more points than Lewis during their time together because his lead in 2011 is more than the total lead of Lewis in remaining 2 seasons. Whoever came up with this statistic found a clever way to put Button on top since head to head in championships is the usual comparison where Lewis comes on top. We can find similar statistics in any driver pair where either of them is 'better' than the other.
That's why they statistics is like a bikini, covers the most important part.

Lewis is a racer - a pure breed. Button is good in certain situations like rains etc. He cannot overtake in most cases and does not grab the car at the scruff of the neck like Lewis or Alonso.
Lewis, Alonso, Vettel and to some extent Rosberg too overtakes well. Add Kimi (sometimes). From last week, you can add JEV .
polopm is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 25th September 2014, 18:46   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by polopm View Post
Lewis, Alonso, Vettel and to some extent Rosberg too overtakes well. Add Kimi (sometimes). From last week, you can add JEV .
Add Ricciardo and Bottas to that list of drivers who can overtake very well. They've shown it a lot this season.

In case of Rosberg, I'm not sure we would have seen so much without such a superior car. He has never shown such a skill till last year and even this year, we didn't really see him actually overtake Lewis. I remember wheel to wheel battle and whining that Lewis didn't move over, but I don't recollect Rosberg actually passing Lewis. As for overtaking other cars with a Mercedes this season, I guess everyone except Maldonado should be able to do it.
zenren is offline  
Old 25th September 2014, 19:50   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 172
Thanked: 67 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
You are missing the whole point, look at this stat. There was no other driver/team who came that close in the last 4 years.

2012:

Vettel : 281
Alonso: 278

2010:
Vettel - 256
Alonso - 252
That's why Fernando is awesome.
Blue_V is offline  
Old 26th September 2014, 11:09   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,233
Thanked: 1,221 Times
Default Re: The 2015 F1 Season

Guess he was holidaying at Hawaii in 2011 and 2013

Alonso is good, but you also need a car to be up there fighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_V View Post
That's why Fernando is awesome.
anachronix is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 2015 F1 Season, Calendar & Rule Changes jfxavier Int'l Motorsport 205 10th April 2015 18:35
The 2015 WRC Season killjoy Int'l Motorsport 8 29th March 2015 15:18
Force India almost certain to miss 2015 season opener in Melbourne thehighwayman Int'l Motorsport 18 9th February 2015 15:11
2008 F1 season: Pre-season banter MaserQ Int'l Motorsport 27 13th March 2008 09:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:48.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks