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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2015 MotoGP championship?
Marc Marquez 21 15.22%
Jorge Lorenzo 27 19.57%
Dani Pedrosa 1 0.72%
Valentino Rossi 89 64.49%
Others 0 0%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27th October 2015, 20:04   #751
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Originally Posted by shyn View Post
1. Ofcourse Honda would have whopped him had he not finished first and Marquez knew it too. Exactly why he then moved on to take Lorenzo.
Then what about Marquez letting Lorenzo pass at Sepang? And do you really think any manufacturer would take their rider risking a race win lightly? Of course Honda would've gone back and checked their data and if they found something amiss, Marquez would've known. Whether he won the race or not was immaterial if Honda found that he was deliberately slow.

I am not saying Marquez might not be capable of such things. But if he did try, Honda would probably skin him alive.

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2. Nobody here, specially me, is saying that Marquez or anyone infront of Rossi should just move out of his way because he is riding towards his 10th championship!
Like the Alonso example you used, had it been a fair race, Rossi too would have been gracious in defeat. But he, and ofcourse me, believe Marquez was trying to slow Rossi down to take as many points from him as possible.
I do not understand what is unfair here. When Rossi and Marquez met, few options:

1) Marquez lets Rossi through:- Clearly not an option

2) Marquez fights it out and is seemingly unable to shake Rossi off his tail: This is what happened in my opinion.

3) Marquez fights it out, comes out trumps and then pulls away from Rossi:- Say Lorenzo is 1st, Marquez 2nd and Rossi 3rd. Marquez slows down to engage Rossi again, the worst Marquez will be able to do is keep him at 3rd position. Something he can do by not waiting for him at all. And if Marquez keeps up his normal pace after pulling away and Rossi catches up, points 1, 2 and 3 will still apply. At no point is Marquez getting Rossi to lose more points by doing the salsa with him. Whether they battle it out or not, if Rossi finishes 3rd, he is still getting 16 points. No more, no less.

You say he fishtailed, you say he took huge risks, you say he was braking really hard, and yet you say he was being deliberately slow! I mean, what gives? Was Rossi, who didn't do all these things, genuinely faster then? Then wasn't it Rossi who was holding back and slowing his pace down?

I am not defending Marquez, I am trying to see the logic behind Rossi's allegations. Because to me, it doesn't seem to make sense. So you are trying to tell me that Rossi would let Marquez go into 2nd place only because Marquez is faster? Don't you think Rossi would fight for that place because every point is crucial at this stage in the championship? And isn't that exactly what happened at Sepang? Look at it without the he-is-slowing-down-Rossi glasses, it will look like one of the best fights in MotoGP history. But wear those glasses again and it's a whole new story.

Last edited by ashwin.terminat : 27th October 2015 at 20:06.
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Old 27th October 2015, 21:10   #752
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Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat View Post
Then what about Marquez letting Lorenzo pass at Sepang? And do you really think any manufacturer would take their rider risking a race win lightly? Of course Honda would've gone back and checked their data and if they found something amiss, Marquez would've known. Whether he won the race or not was immaterial if Honda found that he was deliberately slow.

I am not saying Marquez might not be capable of such things. But if he did try, Honda would probably skin him alive.



I do not understand what is unfair here. When Rossi and Marquez met, few options:

1) Marquez lets Rossi through:- Clearly not an option

2) Marquez fights it out and is seemingly unable to shake Rossi off his tail: This is what happened in my opinion.

3) Marquez fights it out, comes out trumps and then pulls away from Rossi:- Say Lorenzo is 1st, Marquez 2nd and Rossi 3rd. Marquez slows down to engage Rossi again, the worst Marquez will be able to do is keep him at 3rd position. Something he can do by not waiting for him at all. And if Marquez keeps up his normal pace after pulling away and Rossi catches up, points 1, 2 and 3 will still apply. At no point is Marquez getting Rossi to lose more points by doing the salsa with him. Whether they battle it out or not, if Rossi finishes 3rd, he is still getting 16 points. No more, no less.

You say he fishtailed, you say he took huge risks, you say he was braking really hard, and yet you say he was being deliberately slow! I mean, what gives? Was Rossi, who didn't do all these things, genuinely faster then? Then wasn't it Rossi who was holding back and slowing his pace down?

I am not defending Marquez, I am trying to see the logic behind Rossi's allegations. Because to me, it doesn't seem to make sense. So you are trying to tell me that Rossi would let Marquez go into 2nd place only because Marquez is faster? Don't you think Rossi would fight for that place because every point is crucial at this stage in the championship? And isn't that exactly what happened at Sepang? Look at it without the he-is-slowing-down-Rossi glasses, it will look like one of the best fights in MotoGP history. But wear those glasses again and it's a whole new story.

Ok, agreed with your Sepang race theory. It was a tight fight and Rossi made a block pass and Marques did a Marquez (read: fell off his bike).
But I am talking about the race in Australia and the press conference before Sepang.
I still believe Marquez played with him, hoping Iannone, who was having the ride of his life would get past Rossi, which he did, and then moved on to take Lorenzo.
And then at the press conference before Sepang when Rosso called Marquez out, that hurt the kid's ego because Rossi not only made his game, but caught him off guard and in public.
So during the race he just wanted to stick it to the old man and who knows, maybe would have flicked the middle finger at him after passing him for good just like Rossi did to Biaggi. Afterall, he did make that pass on Rossi last year at the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, trying to emulate the Rossi-Stoner battle, which Rossi took in a very sporting way.
I think Marquez is a glory hunter who is trying to add injury to insult. And one less title for Rossi is one less title for Marquez to win too to beat and to be the GOAT. No denying the kid has it all to do so- talent, age and the bike. What he doesn't have is the class and dignity befitting a champion and ofcourse the approval of the majority (read: Rossi fans).
The only reason I am discussing this further is because with each comment I am opening up and learning a little more. And that is because we have civilised, educated and brotherly opinions here on our forum. Would never go on like this on facebook. A big thank you to everyone here. God bless Team-BHP, God bless us and God bless motorsports!
There is bound to be a difference of opinions and that's why they say things like "With you be your way, with me mine" and "To each, his own". I will leave it here for now.
Cheers.
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Old 28th October 2015, 00:26   #753
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Default Re: The 2015 MotoGP Thread

Here are a few numbers I pulled up.

The 2015 MotoGP Thread-motogp.jpg

Marquez was considerably slower(to the tune of 0.4s and more) on four occasions. Of these four, three seemed to have affected Rossi's times as well.

On lap 6, Marquez had a wobble on the start and finish straight, ended up running a little wide at the corner, was overtaken by Rossi. And while the duo were scrapping it out, Marc was then overtaken by Iannone at the exact same spot he made the double overtake later in the race. Iannone also tried to pass Rossi at the same time, but couldn't.

Lap 12, again, Marquez ran wide at the same corner as he did on lap 6.

On lap 25, Marquez and Rossi were both overtaken by Iannone at the same time. Do note that neither of them expected it and were caught completely off guard.

The lap times are here, this is what was used by Rossi to claim that Marquez was deliberately slower. Anyone can give credence to that based on the same data?

Here's a small graph as well.

Name:  MotoGP 2.jpg
Views: 633
Size:  53.0 KB

I can't make much out of it. Anyone who can, please share your views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyn View Post
The only reason I am discussing this further is because with each comment I am opening up and learning a little more. And that is because we have civilised, educated and brotherly opinions here on our forum. Would never go on like this on Facebook. A big thank you to everyone here. God bless Team-BHP, God bless us and God bless motorsports!
I totally agree with you. The point of all these arguments and counter arguments for me is not to prove Marquez right and Rossi wrong. It provides new insight and I am open to other views as well. Just want to reach a well informed conclusion rather rather than a media-induced bias.

Last edited by ashwin.terminat : 28th October 2015 at 00:37.
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Old 28th October 2015, 00:53   #754
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Default The 2015 MotoGP Thread

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Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat View Post
Here are a few numbers I pulled up.

The lap times are here, this is what was used by Rossi to claim that Marquez was deliberately slower. Anyone can give credence to that based on the same data?

Amazing find!
The graph shows a lot of spikes on Marquez's blue line. Looks to me like he was able to run whatever pace he wanted whenever. Plus that last lap where he set the fastest lap clearly tells he still had the grunt and tires. And Rossi was a tad bit faster than Lorenzo overall. Just that he was stuck behind/with Marquez.
Rossi sure did have a point. Right?
Or am I still reading it all wrong?

Last edited by shyn : 28th October 2015 at 00:54.
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Old 28th October 2015, 09:42   #755
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Originally Posted by Parth46 View Post
Verbatim from Google translate :

Thank you all for the great support, read you helped me overcome bitterness and pissed off.
From today we are working for Valencia.



EDIT : Valencia does owe VR a title, right??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I knew it at heart, after all the drama he would race! Old dog still has it in him and he can't say no to a good fight on the track.

Would be super fun to watch, especially if MM comes in front of him during the race
I knew it!
He is going to be ruthless through the field, I am sure. There are few people in the class of speed and handling that he is in, this season. However, of those 6-7 in the top, most will not do anything to jeopardize the battle, for sure.
Pedrosa, MM, Lorenzo, those are the ones on the list
In the 2nd best case:
1-2, 2-3 ok.
3-4, 3-5 ok
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Old 28th October 2015, 10:20   #756
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Default Re: The 2015 MotoGP Thread

Cannot miss Valencia for sure now. The battle will be epic.

Rossi has to now go all out in the decider and usually in Motorsports, that definitely helps. There is a certain clarity of thought in that than defending from the front of the grid.

Go Vale Go!
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Old 28th October 2015, 10:26   #757
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Odds are against VR for the championship. The points diff is just 7. VR has to come 2nd if JLo wins and has to come 3rd if JLo comes 2nd. For me, this seems to be very difficult to achieve in MotoGP. It might be possible in F1 for Mercedes now.. but in MotoGP it is highly unlikely. His best bet would be a mistake from Lorenzo.

For each race, Championship points will be awarded on the following scale:
1st place = 25 points
2nd place = 20 points
3rd place = 16 points
4th place = 13 points
5th place = 11 points
6th place = 10 points
7th place = 9 points
8th place = 8 points
9th place = 7 points
10th place = 6 points
11th place = 5 points
12th place = 4 points
13th place = 3 points
14th place = 2 points
15th place = 1 points

Last edited by arun_kun : 28th October 2015 at 10:41.
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Old 28th October 2015, 14:33   #758
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This is unfolding like a saas-bahu.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ya...se-101409.html
Quote:
The Rossi-Marquez incident at Sepang is sending more shockwaves in the paddocks, as new footage emerges and the situation unfolds. The latest paddock rumor sees Yamaha not at all happy with the attitude and declarations of Jorge Lorenzo regarding the incident that involved Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez last Sunday at Sepang.

Jorge Lorenzo sided with Marc Marquez and HRC in claiming that the entire blame for the Honda rider's crash belongs to Rossi. Lorenzo left the podium as soon as the awards were handed and, in an unprecedented manner, simply refused to take part in the traditional champagne battle.

Making things even stranger, Lorenzo openly declared that Rossi's three-point penalty was too small, considering what he did. Yamaha's boss Lin Jarvis, whose declarations after the Race Direction decision and rejected appeal were as calm and moderate as they get, did not take kindly to JL99's belligerent mood.

Jorge Lorenzo's disrespectful discourse and attitude may cost him his job at Yamaha, rumor has it. Lin Jarvis would rather did not have JL99 involved in the fray.

Lorenzo's disrespectful words targeting Rossi are said to be yet another reason for the irritation of the Yamaha officials. Though unconfirmed, it appears that Yamaha is even considering no longer employing Jorge Lorenzo in 2016.

Meanwhile, the petition to change Valentino Rossi's penalty gathered north of 371,000 signatures at the time of writing, and the numbers are going up fast. Even though, at first, the Doctor declared that he believed that his presence in Valencia was no longer certain, Lin Jarvis confirmed that Rossi would make the trip to Spain and race in the final round of the 2015 MotoGP championship.

More footage from Sepang show how tense things were, and an unseen side of the Malaysian MotoGP weekend

Videos that haven't been on the front page of media outlets surface and provide a bigger (if not better) picture of what happened in Sepang last Sunday. One of these videos shows Maurizio Vitali of Dainese/AGV, and Rossi's right hand and close friend, entering Marc Marquez' box as he returned after the crash.

Most likely, Vitali was going to demand some explanations from MM93, even though he was in no position to do so. He is blocked by Marc's brother Alex.

The other video shows Cesarino "Rino" Salucci, the long-time president of Rossi's fan club and father to Ucci, the Doctor's best friend, losing his temper and being calmed down by Sepang marshals. Reportedly, there had also been fans shouting abuse around the Repsol Honda box when Marquez, Shuhei Nakamoto and team boss Livio Suppo appeared.

Apparently, Honda's Emilio Alzamora has admitted that Marquez blames Rossi for him losing any chances to win the 2015 crown and is holding a bitter grudge on the Italian.

It's hard to say if the petition will change anything, but one thing is certain: 2015 has a most tense final round and Valencia will be an insane race.
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Old 28th October 2015, 15:05   #759
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If Marquez was racing his own private bike, then he sure as hell would let Lorenzo win. But he races for a team called Honda and is bound by contract to finish to the best of his ability. Had he gone back to the pits after still having the pace to win but not doing so because of a personal vendetta, he would get an earful and some! He played around with Rossi just enough to make him lose as many points as possible but at the same time he left enough time to take the slower Lorenzo down. Even if Rossi had finished third and Lorenzo second, he would have achieved what he set out to do.
Call me nuts or blind or both, but this is what i believe to have happened. And with that I rest my case.
Actually I came here to post this- http://www.topgear.com/car-news/moto...is-motogp-bike
Unbelievable how a big publication like Top Gear can be so irresponsible with reporting the news. I know they aren't known for motorsports coverage, let alone MotoGP, but still, they do have a responsibility and voicing such blinded and judgy opinions as news is wrong. I could never imagine them resorting to presstitution for more hits. Sad.
Topgear story is not accessible anymore.
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Old 28th October 2015, 15:54   #760
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Originally Posted by arun_kun View Post
Odds are against VR for the championship. The points diff is just 7. VR has to come 2nd if JLo wins and has to come 3rd if JLo comes 2nd. For me, this seems to be very difficult to achieve in MotoGP. It might be possible in F1 for Mercedes now.. but in MotoGP it is highly unlikely. His best bet would be a mistake from Lorenzo.

Or if Lorenzo finishes behind the two Hondas, that is in 3rd place, then Rossi can still win the championship finishing as low as 6th, which I think is doable. Just saying.

The Godfather of grand prix racing has finally spoken about the incident-
Here's what 15-time world champion Giacomo Agostini told the Italian newspaper, Gazzetta dello Sport, about the incident: "Valentino fell into Marquez's game that this time was smarter than him. He should have expected such a reaction: Marc had nothing to lose. They passed and re-passed each other thousands of times. You cannot fall into this trap, you cannot do this maneuver, going so wide, especially if you are Valentino Rossi. What happens in a racer's mind in those moments? I'm convinced that Valentino was angry, exhausted and frustrated, but until that turn it had been a great fight. But Valentino was surprised. He is a great professional. In his place, I also would have been very angry with Marquez, who provoked and exasperated him."
Agostini added: "If you look back, when it was about winning, Valentino has never been soft with his rivals, just think of Casey Stoner or Sete Gibernau. You cannot condemn a rider like Marquez who is putting up a show."
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Old 28th October 2015, 16:00   #761
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Here's what Giacomo Agostini had to say about the incident:

Quote:
Lastly, here’s what 15-time world champion Giacomo Agostini told the Italian newspaper, Gazzetta dello Sport, about the incident: “Valentino fell into Marquez’s game that this time was smarter than him. He should have expected such a reaction: Marc had nothing to lose. They passed and re-passed each other thousands of times. You cannot fall into this trap, you cannot do this maneuver, going so wide, especially if you are Valentino Rossi. What happens in a racer’s mind in those moments? I’m convinced that Valentino was angry, exhausted and frustrated, but until that turn it had been a great fight. But Valentino was surprised. He is a great professional. In his place, I also would have been very angry with Marquez, who provoked and exasperated him.”
Agostini added: “If you look back, when it was about winning, Valentino has never been soft with his rivals, just think of Casey Stoner or Sete Gibernau. You cannot condemn a rider like Marquez who is putting up a show.”
Here's an article that also talks about how Rossi might have said all that he said in the pre-race press conferences hoping Marquez would stand down and wouldn't fight Rossi and would fight Lorenzo harder to prove Rossi's comments wrong - just what I think is the reason behind Rossi's comment.

http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/new...wed-at-sepang/

Safe to say, that a site called motorsport.com will be considered more credible for motorsport news compared to TopGear.com?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyn View Post
Looks to me like he was able to run whatever pace he wanted whenever. Plus that last lap where he set the fastest lap clearly tells he still had the grunt and tires. And Rossi was a tad bit faster than Lorenzo overall. Just that he was stuck behind/with Marquez.
Rossi sure did have a point. Right?
Or am I still reading it all wrong?
There were specific incidents during the race that seemed to cause those anomalies in Marquez's lap times, in my opinion.

Also, fastest laps are very often set during the last laps of a race. This is more to do with lighter fuel loads and increased rubber on the track and the pursuit of a final attack to secure a better position; not so much to do with deliberately being slower throughout the race.

I not saying that you are reading it wrong. Just that we are trying to look at it in ways that support our views.

I don't see any significantly slower lap times that should raise eyebrows. Those spikes look so bad only because of Lorenzo's almost alien like consistency with timings.

Last edited by ashwin.terminat : 28th October 2015 at 16:23.
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Old 28th October 2015, 16:28   #762
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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post

yamaha-rumored-to-part-ways-with-lorenzo-because-of-his-attitude-in-the-rossi-case
Surprising, really. That is, if it is true..

Despite the popularity and all the brilliance of Rossi, he is after all, at the fag end of his career. Lorenzo on the other hand has a few more useful years left.

Is there something else going on in the background? I don't think a factory team would fire its number one man just for a loose statement; however loose it might've been. A rap on the knuckle is all it warrants.
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Old 28th October 2015, 17:20   #763
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Surprising, really. That is, if it is true..
True. Looks to be a little far fetched, could be someone high on tyre smoke.
Highly improbable.
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Old 28th October 2015, 17:38   #764
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Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat View Post
Here's an article that also talks about how Rossi might have said all that he said in the pre-race press conferences hoping Marquez would stand down and wouldn't fight Rossi and would fight Lorenzo harder to prove Rossi's comments wrong - just what I think is the reason behind Rossi's comment.

http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/new...wed-at-sepang/

Safe to say, that a site called motorsport.com will be considered more credible for motorsport news compared to TopGear.com?

I not saying that you are reading it wrong. Just that we are trying to look at it in ways that support our views.

I don't see any significantly slower lap times that should raise eyebrows. Those spikes look so bad only because of Lorenzo's almost alien like consistency with timings.

That's a nicely written article. Unlike TopGear's, which was solely for the purpose of CLICKBAIT.
I am beginning to agree with you even more. Thanks!
Now bring on Valencia. Forza Vale.
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Old 28th October 2015, 17:53   #765
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That's a nicely written article. Unlike TopGear's, which was solely for the purpose of CLICKBAIT.
I am beginning to agree with you even more. Thanks!
Now bring on Valencia. Forza Vale.
Always a pleasure. Isn't this the real ethos of Team-BHP?

As for MotoGP, this incident will not be forgotten. But will be pushed to the backburner because it's not the end of the MotoGP world as we know it. The sport is much larger than the two individuals involved.

As for this year, I hope the title is decided between a straight battle between Rossi and Lorenzo. That would be the icing on the cake of what was a fantastic championship.
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