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Old 30th March 2015, 08:19   #46
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post
1. Why run Q1 in qualifying on mediums when the rest of the top runners were running hards and were comfortably through to Q2? This meant they had one fresh mediums less for the race.
2. When Ferrari had shown pace all weekend, why make a tire change on the safety car. The pretty much handed Vettel the free air he needed to pull off from the Mercs.
Let me try and answer those.

Its no secret that Mercedes eats up its tyres. Its not that bad after Pirelli made the compounds a bit resilient across the tyres. But still a factor when track conditions are extreme, and Malaysia was super hot. Ferrari on the other hand is easy on its tyres, one reason why the team struggles so much on colder days and on Saturdays.

So, Mercedes decided to retain the slower but long lasting hard for the race. That's why they used up the Medium during qualifying. The teams get a strict allocation of each compound which they need to use wisely over the weekend. They thought, the W06 had enough speed to fight others even with the harder compound. Also, the call to stop thrice was made to cover the tyre issues. And what better time to stop than when the Safety Car is out. But Ferrari didn't have any of these concerns and could make the faster medium last during the race.

So, it was a chain of events following the strategy calls Mercedes made around the strength and weaknesses of their car over the weekend. Little did they know Ferrari had the pace to pounce when they left the door open during qualifying itself.
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Old 30th March 2015, 08:29   #47
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

Vettel @1:45:17

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Old 30th March 2015, 09:01   #48
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

@ddetjohn; a few years ago Merc had the reputation of being light on tyre wear and Ferrari were reputed to have them for breakfast. The revival of the prancing horse, is really good for the sport. They are the most iconic brand there is. Incidentally, the only place you see a horse with its tail up is in the Ferrari logo!
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Old 30th March 2015, 09:20   #49
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post
BCouple of strategy calls from Mercedes made no sense and probably affected the final outcome of the race:

1. Why run Q1 in qualifying on mediums when the rest of the top runners were running hards and were comfortably through to Q2? This meant they had one fresh mediums less for the race.
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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
Its no secret that Mercedes eats up its tyres. Its not that bad after Pirelli made the compounds a bit resilient across the tyres. But still a factor when track conditions are extreme, and Malaysia was super hot. Ferrari on the other hand is easy on its tyres, one reason why the team struggles so much on colder days and on Saturdays.

So, Mercedes decided to retain the slower but long lasting hard for the race. That's why they used up the Medium during qualifying. The teams get a strict allocation of each compound which they need to use wisely over the weekend. They thought, the W06 had enough speed to fight others even with the harder compound. Also, the call to stop thrice was made to cover the tyre issues. And what better time to stop than when the Safety Car is out. But Ferrari didn't have any of these concerns and could make the faster medium last during the race.
Just to add to what deetjohn already said, Hamilton's medium tyre run lasted only 14 laps and he was already crying out that the tyres were gone. He still had 18 laps to complete the race and it would have been tricky for him to go on to another set of mediums. Used mediums were obviously out of question since it wouldn't have lasted the distance. Even if he had a fresh set of mediums, it would have been too close since he had to push to close the gap to Vettel. Once he caught up, he would have needed to overtake Vettel at a time when his tyres would have been near the end of usable life. In case he even managed to do it, Vettel might have taken the place back from him at the end if he suffered from tyre degradation in the last lap.

In a nutshell, I don't think it would have mattered much even if Hamilton had another set of mediums in the race given his middle stint on mediums.
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Old 30th March 2015, 09:56   #50
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@ddetjohn; a few years ago Merc had the reputation of being light on tyre wear and Ferrari were reputed to have them for breakfast. The revival of the prancing horse, is really good for the sport. They are the most iconic brand there is. Incidentally, the only place you see a horse with its tail up is in the Ferrari logo!
I think it was the other way round. Especially in 2013 where they took a series of pole in the starting races only to fade away in the races.

Then happened a secret testing with Pirelli post which they addressed the issue and along with changes in Pirelli tires that happened in 2013 mid season, it helped them come to the fore.
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Old 30th March 2015, 10:53   #51
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
I don't think we will be in agreement on everything. But every little thing adds up. I didn't say Alonso was the sole reason for Ferrari's struggle, but he was part of that. Some of the hype was created by Fernando himself, when he claims he brings 6 tenths to the team with him (or was it 7 tenth?).

Now the question is how long does McLaren-Honda take to be competitive. It's not a pretty picture to see them line up 17th and 18th in the grid on merit.

Back to Ferrari, they need to ensure they can deliver perfect weekends for both their drivers. They make far too many mistakes for a top team.
To say he is even partly responsible for Ferrari's struggle is incorrect.
He almost won the title in his first year at Ferrari. His fan following, which was second only to Schumacher without winning a single WDC speaks for itself.

This is a misconception of his years spent at Ferrari, similar to Indian fans backlash after not winning the Cup!
If you can explain any of the questions I raised in my earlier post, we can debate this.

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I think it was the other way round. Especially in 2013 where they took a series of pole in the starting races only to fade away in the races.

Then happened a secret testing with Pirelli post which they addressed the issue and along with changes in Pirelli tires that happened in 2013 mid season, it helped them come to the fore.
Absolutely, Mercedes had the highest tire wear in the races.

Last edited by Hatari : 30th March 2015 at 10:55.
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Old 30th March 2015, 12:17   #52
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Talking Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

This race was a lot more fun than Australia. What made it fun? 19 cars start the race. Ferrari proves to be very competitive. I guess that must have shocked both Lewis & NicoR. Lots of overtaking due to SC & people diving into the pits. But watching RBR getting beat even by STR (same engine + smaller budget) was the cherry on the cake. Waiting to see what new issue Horner whines about.

Alonso must be wondering about the decisions he has made in this career. Leaving a very competitive Mclaren back to Renault (while wishing bad luck to Ferrari), crash-gate, driving very in-competitive Ferraris and just when he leaves for Mclaren, Ferrari bounces back (though it's still just one race). Bad karma or bad luck? Probably a bit of both.
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Old 30th March 2015, 13:40   #53
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
To say he is even partly responsible for Ferrari's struggle is incorrect.
He almost won the title in his first year at Ferrari. His fan following, which was second only to Schumacher without winning a single WDC speaks for itself.

This is a misconception of his years spent at Ferrari, similar to Indian fans backlash after not winning the Cup!
If you can explain any of the questions I raised in my earlier post, we can debate this.
I am not sure how fan following can be a factor in this discussion. Ferrari fans typically get behind their drivers always. So why is that important here?

Let me respond to some of your questions
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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Alonso's direction contradicts one that should result in more downforce/build better windtunnels/more horsepower?

So Button & Hamilton were to blame for McLaren's 2013 lemon? Vettel was brilliant at providing direction but not in 2014?
I did not suggest that anywhere. There's a lot more to it than wind tunnels and horsepower. Everything has to work together in a package. And driver is part of that package. With the driver comes the drivability aspects of the car, which is subjective based on how a driver 'feels' the car. If the driver doesn't feel confident in the car, he will not be able to take the car to its limit. When it suits, a driver can outdrive the car itself. Usually a good indicator would be if both the drivers are able to extract maximum out of a same car. It doesn't help the larger picture, having Alonso finishing in third in races when other driver struggles to make it to the points, when the team's goal should be to maximize points for both their drivers (especially important for a manufacturer team like Ferrari) which would then help them fight for both championships. It also didn't help with Alonso insisting on having a second-tier driver like Massa as the other driver.

Teams want results at the end of the day. That's why you see Ferrari had no issue in bringing Kimi back, who they got rid first by paying him not to drive for them in 2010, and now McLaren have no issue in taking Alonso back, who actually took them to court and made them cough up 100 million dollars back in 2008. Only results count at the end of the day, that's how F1 teams function.

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Engineers build cars. Drivers set them up in races as per their driving styles. Now how often does Alonso get his race pace wrong?
Exactly. Engineers build cars, but drivers do give inputs after trying them on track, which can then help engineers further to build on and improve. If the car was built to suit Alonso's driving style and with his inputs, it should be no surprise that he had a good race pace compared to his team mates. Again, make no mistake, i do rate Alonso as a driver very highly, so this discussion is not about Alonso as a driver.

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Cmon now. Ferrari admitted they screwed up, the Chairman lost his job because he wasnt allocating enough resources to the F1 project.. as simple as that. They then spent $100 million odd more building upto this year, and look where the car is.
They always had enough to spend on F1, and that can't be a reason. How they spent their millions, yes - that can be questioned and debated. But the key is, they don't have Alonso in the team now, which only adds more fuel. If Alonso knew that this year's car would be better, why did he leave? I believe he was forced to leave (or forced into making a decision sooner than he would have liked - when Ferrari announced they are bringing Vettel in - however you want to look at it).

Bottom line is - Ferrari-Alonso partnership ultimately didn't work out, and it was in best interest of both parties to move on and start afresh. I believe Alonso as the lead driver of Ferrari, has to share some responsibility for lack of success in 5 years with Ferrari. We are free to disagree on this and that's fine.

We are digressing from the topic of this thread, so it's my last post on this.

Last edited by SilentEngine : 30th March 2015 at 13:44. Reason: Fixed quotes
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Old 30th March 2015, 13:51   #54
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

Interesting GP after a long long time. This was fun. Especially watching a Ferrari win. Wonder what happened to Ferrari all these years and Alonso being a top driver couldnt get them to winning. I see some comments about his driving style not suiting for development of car. But not sure if that is the only reason. Ferrari had their own pitfalls too many to overcome.

One could really see Ferrari on the move and how the car is real competitive unlike the trucks they built the previous years. Yay, wish more fight between Mercedes and Ferrari. Wish there are more wins for Kimi. Vettel drove a impeccable race. But still I am not his fan. I would put Lewis ahead of him on talent. As much as I loved a Ferrari win could not stand the squealing Vettel on the microphone. It was very annoying.

Wish for more competitive races ahead.
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Old 30th March 2015, 14:46   #55
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

Interesting article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...e-corners.html
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Old 30th March 2015, 15:03   #56
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

My last post on this :

A driver cannot build a race winning car. (Which Ferrari did not do)
He can ofcourse make the existing one work best. (Which Alonso did better than most)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
I am not sure how fan following can be a factor in this discussion. Ferrari fans typically get behind their drivers always. So why is that important here?
Important that fans dont see him as reason for failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Let me respond to some of your questions


I did not suggest that anywhere. There's a lot more to it than wind tunnels and horsepower. Everything has to work together in a package. And driver is part of that package. With the driver comes the drivability aspects of the car, which is subjective based on how a driver 'feels' the car. If the driver doesn't feel confident in the car, he will not be able to take the car to its limit. When it suits, a driver can outdrive the car itself. Usually a good indicator would be if both the drivers are able to extract maximum out of a same car. It doesn't help the larger picture, having Alonso finishing in third in races when other driver struggles to make it to the points, when the team's goal should be to maximize points for both their drivers (especially important for a manufacturer team like Ferrari) which would then help them fight for both championships. It also didn't help with Alonso insisting on having a second-tier driver like Massa as the other driver.
If the overall package is slow like Ferrari's was then drive ability cannot make it win Championships can it? So the driver here is not a factor.
Ok so they hired Kimi and he did worse than Massa! Its not his fault if Massa/Kimi finish 30 secs behind him. This is the only place where your argument works, Kimi did not set the car up to his liking. So Kimi was definately to blame for Ferrari's poor 2014.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Exactly. Engineers build cars, but drivers do give inputs after trying them on track, which can then help engineers further to build on and improve. If the car was built to suit Alonso's driving style and with his inputs, it should be no surprise that he had a good race pace compared to his team mates. Again, make no mistake, i do rate Alonso as a driver very highly, so this discussion is not about Alonso as a driver.
Again, if the engineers have not built a quick enough car...

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
They always had enough to spend on F1, and that can't be a reason. How they spent their millions, yes - that can be questioned and debated.
Nope, they clearly did not.
Montezemolo hated aerodynamics and did not invest enough here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
But the key is, they don't have Alonso in the team now, which only adds more fuel. If Alonso knew that this year's car would be better, why did he leave? I believe he was forced to leave (or forced into making a decision sooner than he would have liked - when Ferrari announced they are bringing Vettel in - however you want to look at it).
If you followed the news, McLaren made contact with Alonso 1.5 years ago. Only once he decided to quit was Vettel brought in. The announcement came late because McLaren had not made the decision about his team mate.

Alonso moved to McLaren to win a Championship not one race.
So time will tell if he made the right call.
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Old 30th March 2015, 15:52   #57
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

Personally, I'm just happy for us fans that the season got more interesting. Vettel winning Malaysia, and being on the podium in Australia, tells me that Ferrari has a great car. A victory like this is a h-u-g-e shot in the arm. Overnight, the motivation levels within the team will improve, as will the money & support from bosses above.

Great show and here's to a superb season ahead.

Heart goes out to Alonso though. I can't help but think how he must be feeling seeing Ferrari win yesterday. Goes to show that working hard & being talented isn't enough. You have to make the right career choices. The way they are today, Mclaren-Honda will take a long, long time to get back to their winning ways (if at all). And it's not like Mercedes & Ferrari are going to be sitting idle. They're clearly pushing the envelope themselves. Too early to say, but I don't think Alonso is going to win any more championships. He's getting old and his cars slower.
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Old 30th March 2015, 16:09   #58
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

Forza Ferrari !!!
The horse is prancing alright....
Hopefully the engine upgrade before the European leg starts adds another boost to the performance.
It is going to go down to the wire this season....
The Ice Man should be able to catch up on Vettel and Hamilton for a three way fight..
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Old 30th March 2015, 17:16   #59
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Personally, I'm just happy for us fans that the season got more interesting. Vettel winning Malaysia, and being on the podium in Australia, tells me that Ferrari has a great car. A victory like this is a h-u-g-e shot in the arm. Overnight, the motivation levels within the team will improve, as will the money & support from bosses above.

Great show and here's to a superb season ahead.

Heart goes out to Alonso though. I can't help but think how he must be feeling seeing Ferrari win yesterday. Goes to show that working hard & being talented isn't enough. You have to make the right career choices. The way they are today, Mclaren-Honda will take a long, long time to get back to their winning ways (if at all). And it's not like Mercedes & Ferrari are going to be sitting idle. They're clearly pushing the envelope themselves. Too early to say, but I don't think Alonso is going to win any more championships. He's getting old and his cars slower.
My guesstimate would be another 4 races when McLaren would start getting into the Q3/Q2 border. The chassis is definitely best in class and the engine seems to be getting better.
For Alonso, it might be that his Karma is getting the better of him.
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Old 30th March 2015, 18:28   #60
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Default Re: 2015 Malaysian GP - Sepang International Circuit - Race Thread

I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. Ferrari won in Malaysia, but in a specific set of circumstances that won't repeat very often.

No doubt they're far better than last year and may even win a few races over this season, but WCC contenders? Too early to judge.
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