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Old 19th May 2015, 18:22   #16
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

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I do not understand the "first refusal" statement above. What does it mean, anyone can enlighten me please?
The existing teams in F1 which are not able to construct the cars due to whatever reasons (eg. High cost) will be offered the right to choose a ready made "customer" chassis and other components before being offered to newcomers.

Force India has expressed its frustration over the push for third cars and ultimately customer cars that was voted through at F1 Strategy Group meeting.
“There was no interest at all from the manufacturer teams in discussing anything to do with cost controls or more equitable income distribution,” Fernley told Motorsport.com. “It was completely abandoned in favour of the customer cars".
“In some ways it makes things abundantly clear where F1 is going. We've suspected that customer cars were wanted for quite some time, but this is the first time that it's really moving through as the only alternative as far as the manufacturer teams are concerned. It's not finalised as to what the package is, but there's a clear process that's going to happen now. If any teams fail, the manufacturer teams will run a third car, and in the meantime they will get on with putting together a proposal and a format for customer cars".
“However there will be significant downsides to that, as you can imagine. But the devil will be in the detail. In the mean time we've got to determine the direction that we want to go on in and look at how we protect our position.”
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Old 19th May 2015, 18:24   #17
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

Bringing back refueling would be a stupid decision, and it will not add anything to the racing. All it does is introduce another variable to botch up in pit-stop racing the likes of which bored us for years with cars sprinting line astern, only attempting passes in the pit-lane during refueling stops, not to mention the added safety hazard of having highly combustible fuel in close proximity to high-voltage KERS batteries.

The racing will NOT improve until something is done about the over-reliance on aerodynamics, but any changes there would cost massive development $$$ and nobody seems interested to touch that anyway.

F1 is too broken for band-aid fixes, and that is all the current proposal is. A giant band-aid that will fix nothing and we'll go back to cribbing how 'refueling has made races boring' narrative again a few years from now. Cycle, rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

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Old 19th May 2015, 18:39   #18
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

‘Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.’

Since F1 is thinking of upsetting the apple cart and resetting the playing field again, all the enthusiasts are coming up with their "favourite tweaks" list. Furthermore, F1 has certainly not kept up with the times. Maybe a shakeup was in order.

Here is my wish list.

1. The minimum weight of the Car & driver should account for a normal sized person in the driver's seat, not an anorexic or midgets. Maybe weigh in before race and teams that save on the driver's weight should be given ballast to compensate for the light car.

2. I want to see drivers on the limit fight to win races, not pitwall telling the driver to slow down or speed up based on fuel calculations and tyre wear. Maybe the fuel flow & qty. limits need to be tweaked after all the weight reduction, tyre improvements etc. for 2017 are accounted for.

3.F1 should be a showcase for the latest tech. Eliminating technology to improve show should go. Active suspensions with under floor aerodynamics and ground effects and sliding skirts to seal the low pressure will be welcome. Problems of front wing not able to cope up with dirty air/ turbulence would be negated. Bring in a standardised active suspension and car floor if required to avoid runaway costs in those areas. The complaints of lack of close racing seem to be related to driving in the wake of the car in front.

4. Why not allow DRS to be engaged at any part of the track at any time such as we had in qualifying.

5. Any single qualifying session in the 90s was more exciting than an entire race in 2015. The qualifying format is an area that can be tweaked to allow for a more exciting session. Team mates helping each other by tow etc. etc.

6. Tyre war - Bring it on.

Or like some people are dreaming, all of the above could be dispensed with by saying "Turn up in 2017 with any machine that fits within a box say 2m wide x 4m long x 1m high. It must have tyres that remain in contact with the ground all the time & It must have a driver that alone operates acceleration, brakes and clutch."

Last edited by jfxavier : 19th May 2015 at 18:45.
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Old 20th May 2015, 13:03   #19
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

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4. Why not allow DRS to be engaged at any part of the track at any time such as we had in qualifying.
DRS was allowed to be used at any part of the circuit during practice sessions until last year, I think there is a genuine safety concern in keeping the flap open in the rear wing in corners.
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Old 20th May 2015, 15:19   #20
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

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DRS was allowed to be used at any part of the circuit during practice sessions until last year, I think there is a genuine safety concern in keeping the flap open in the rear wing in corners.
Now a days the driver hardly drives the car on the limit. Many think that being a little "loose" is good for the "show". I think the ban has more to do with some of the teams who cannot get the system work as good as others complaining on the possible safety issue.
That said, the technical requirements for a good DRS system is complex and so some are bound to be better than others. You need an efficient wing arrangement with the movable flap closed and the ability to lose a lot of drag when it is open (and these are conflicting) coupled with the ability to get the flow reattaching quickly when being closed again.
Possibly with the wider cars being proposed, the lack of downforce with DRS open might not be an issue as before with the narrow cars.
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Old 20th May 2015, 15:58   #21
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

Changes are absolutely necessary in Formula 1 racing. Many of the rules in place at the moment are too driver-centric. By making life easier for the drivers they've become boring and lost a lot of TV viewers. From not missing a single F1 race between 2004 to 2010, it's come down to not seeing a single race till now this season. That's how drastically, the sport has become boring.
If the FIA reintroduced and changed a few of the rules, I think the sport would be a lot more exciting to watch.
For example:
1. Reintroduce re-fuelling. Different drivers had different strategies. 2-stop, 3-stop strategies made races very exciting to watch.
2. Reintroduce the old points system of 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1. All I have to say is 2007 & 2008 Brazil GP. Michael Schumacher dominated with this system, surely the new points system can be removed and drivers can still dominate.
3. Remove the final race double points ruling.
4. Remove DRS. Alonso, Hakkinen, Schumacher didn't need it to overtake, the new crop don't need so much driving aids, they should do it on skill, aerodynamics and power delivery alone.
5. Change the F1 qualifying system to the one used in the beginning of 2005. Drivers had to drive one lap, each on Saturday and Sunday and the combined time would determine their starting position. There would be no one else on the track when a driver was doing his hot lap. So, the drivers couldn't afford to screw up their qualifying laps. That added to the excitement factor.
6. This may not go down well with many, but I would rather FIA allowed tobacco companies to sponsor F1 teams. Back when they were allowed, there were more sponsors and teams had more funds and sure wouldn't go bankrupt as easily. Plus, some of the teams looked cool. :P Benson & Hedges Jordan, Marlboro Ferrari, West McLaren looked quite nice.
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Old 20th May 2015, 16:58   #22
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

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6. This may not go down well with many, but I would rather FIA allowed tobacco companies to sponsor F1 teams. Back when they were allowed, there were more sponsors and teams had more funds and sure wouldn't go bankrupt as easily. Plus, some of the teams looked cool. :P Benson & Hedges Jordan, Marlboro Ferrari, West McLaren looked quite nice.
Advertising tobacco products is illegal in many countries.
There were a few races where the logos had to be masked when the rules were coming in.
I guess Ferrari is the only team still implicitly advertising Tobacco.

http://www.gtspirit.com/2015/05/15/f...-3-more-years/
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Old 20th May 2015, 17:27   #23
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

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Advertising tobacco products is illegal in many countries.
There were a few races where the logos had to be masked when the rules were coming in.
I guess Ferrari is the only team still implicitly advertising Tobacco.

http://www.gtspirit.com/2015/05/15/f...-3-more-years/
I remember. Countries where tobacco sponsorship was banned, Ferrari would put a bar code and McLaren would put the driver's first name instead of West. But as I said, if it brings in more money, and smaller teams can benefit from this. I think they should lift the ban.

Last edited by BraveArc : 20th May 2015 at 17:37. Reason: spelling
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Old 20th May 2015, 17:58   #24
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

Formula 1 is an arch rival/enemy to many European parliaments and environmentalists. Adding tobacco branding could even lead to banning F1 withing the EU commission and the series could very well be run only in the middle east. Nobody wants to see that I'm sure...except maybe Bernie.

Ferrari continues to get Marlboro backing and that is no surprise because the current Team Principal was the marketing chief of Phillip Morris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveArc
3. Remove the final race double points ruling.
This is removed with effect from this season itself.

DRS will continue to remain I would assume. The reason it was introduced was to aid overtaking since it was really difficult to follow cars up-close. This still exists now, if anyone saw the Spanish GP a fortnight ago it was clear how Hamilton struggled to get past Vettel in the first stint with DRS wide open. He complained of the same as well, over the radio. As was the case with Vettel following Bottas in Shanghai.
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Old 21st May 2015, 08:45   #25
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

http://surveys.haymarket.com/s3/GFC-survey-2015

The link above will take you to the new survey set up by Autosport, F1 Racing and Motorsport News. Formula 1 enthusiasts are being invited to have their say on the current state of the sport. The results will be presented to senior figures in the F1 paddock next month to gauge their reactions to the survey’s findings.

The GPDA will be presenting their own fan survey on Friday.
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Old 21st May 2015, 10:00   #26
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

Several drivers have had their say over the proposed changes to Formula One’s technical regulations for 2017.

Jenson Button:
There’s lots of ideas that have been thrown around, which I think is a good thing. There’s always room for improvement. For me, the best years of F1, the most fun from my driver’s point of view, was 2004. We had V10 engines, 3 litre 900 horsepower, 21000rpm engines with a tyre war. It was great, but times change. The costs and everything have to be taken into account and I don’t really know where that puts us for the future.

Kimi Raikkonen:
I more or less like the suggestions. I think it would be nice. Would be good for everybody and it would look much nicer. I think it would be more like is used to be and I think that it’s the right way to go. Hopefully it happens, we’ll have to wait and see.

Valtteri Bottas:
From what I’ve heard from it, it’s nice if the sport keeps developing, I’m sure every driver would like the quickest car you can get under you. That’s always more fun.

Fernando Alonso:
I think if the changes are made, we’ll have the rules from 7 or 8 years ago. That would mean that for the last 4 or 5 years, we were going in the wrong direction. I think the grandstands tell us we have been going in the wrong direction. The last time I felt challenged mentally and physically in a car was 2005, the cars were 8 seconds or so faster. The winner of this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix would have been lapped 6 times by the winner of the Malaysian GP in 2006, so when you have 6 or 7 minutes over a race, 7-8 seconds a lap quicker, that is very demanding physically and mentally. Everything was pushed to the limit 10 years ago. The cars are only 1-2 seconds quicker than a GP2 car, some very complex technology, holding back the tyres and managing things….that’s more frustrating than the overall pace of the cars. When you are so slow, you can’t risk wheelspin as you’ll overheat the tyres.

Refuelling would allow for some strategy imagination, it would help you in some races, choosing fuel loads for different times. I remember taking pole positions in 2003 due to small fuel loads and then pitting early in the race…well, you see what happens. Without rain, safety cars and things like that, I could write down the grid order and finishing positions for here, Canada & Austria, maybe just missing one or two positions. I don’t think the fans are welcoming that now.

Felipe Massa:
I like the idea of refuelling, the cars will be quicker, the races will be quicker. We race with a heavy car and the race is very technical, and it used to be much nicer from a driving point of view. I think it will be interesting to get refuelling back. In terms of choosing tyre compounds for each race, I don’t think Pirelli get it wrong. Maybe some of the races too conservative, maybe some of them not. 85-90% of the races, they have it right. Maybe some of the slower teams would take more risks, especially in qualifying. The changes would be good for fans, we’ll have to wait and see. More downforce, wider tyres, engine changes, let’s see. A 5-6 second improvement is maybe a bit too much, but as drivers, we want quicker cars. We want competition as well, but I want them to keep challenge in a good way. Maybe a little bit more engine power, more important is the noise for fans.

Lewis Hamilton also expressed support for a return to fuel stops, as did Daniel Ricciardo, Pastor Maldonado and Nico Hulkenberg – none of whom raced in F1 the last time they featured.
While Romain Grosjean said he didn’t care either way, only Marcus Ericsson in the FIA press conference said he preferred things as they are now.


http://formulaspy.com/formula-1/form...roposals-14189
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Old 21st May 2015, 20:29   #27
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

Christian Horner revealed the position of the team principals on bringing back refuelling as unanimously against it.
“Certainly all the team managers who met yesterday were vehemently against it” he said.
“I tend not to agree with it. We got rid of refuelling for a reason, it didn’t make the races interesting,” he told Sky Sports F1.
“You’ve got a lot of new people in that Strategy Group who haven’t been around all that long. If you cast your mind back to races where there was refuelling, they weren’t that exciting – you just timed the pitstop, you ever went shorter or longer [in the stint], and that dictated your strategy.
“So I think that’s still open to debate.”

This pretty much confirms that refuelling is a BE idea and unless persuaded otherwise, the teams will not say "yes" on this matter.
Looking at the style of governance Jean Todt has brought to F1, for a proposal like this which involves safety and expenditure placed before the F1 strategy group to gain the 6 votes of the FIA, it would require consensus amongst the parties.

“Everyone is in there fighting their own corner and I’m not sure whether it’s a productive group,” he added.
“What it needs is the promoter, who effectively sells this championship, with the circuits and the television companies, we need to put on a good show. Formula 1 needs to be entertaining, it needs to be dramatic, it needs to be all about the drivers going head-to-head and a bunch of teams arguing how many hours you can use in a wind tunnel isn’t going to achieve that.”

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-would-help-f1
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Old 21st May 2015, 23:27   #28
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) wants to know more about you and what you think about the sport. This Global Fan Survey will give us a unique opportunity to understand how drivers, and F1 as a whole, can do more for you.

Here is the link:

http://gpda.motorsport.com/
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Old 22nd May 2015, 09:38   #29
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

I think we need to remove the rpm cap as well. Let there be some screamers!!
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Old 22nd May 2015, 10:16   #30
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Default Re: Formula 1: Refuelling, more noise, faster cars coming up!

The FIA has formally opened up the tyre tender contract for the Formula 1 World Championship from 2017.
In documents released by the governing body, it has invited tyre companies that are interested in applying for the deal.
In the documents, the FIA has said: "It should be noted that, whilst the wheel diameter is currently set at 13 inch.
"This should not preclude an increase in diameter if the tyre manufacturer feels there may be advantages to the COMPETITORS by doing so. Full details should be provided."
Michelin recently expressed interest in a return, but only if the technical rules were different.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...tender-process
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