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View Poll Results: Should we feel sorry for Red Bull's predicament or is it their own fault?
I can't decide 6 5.88%
I don't feel sorry for them 90 88.24%
I feel sorry for them 6 5.88%
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Old 10th October 2015, 20:55   #16
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Amusing to see a 34 - 0 poll against Red Bull.

My view is that Red Bull shot themselves in the foot by letting it hang for too long. Perhaps, a little humility is the order of the day for the team. Now with Ferrari's refusal, they haven't really left themselves with too many choices, but to chew their words and go back to Renault.

Couple of days ago, Carlos Sainz Jr. pointed out, that, by the time Red Bull sort out their engine supplier, they wouldn't be left with sufficient time to design the rear end of the 2016 car.
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Old 12th October 2015, 10:07   #17
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Most unsporting thing I ever heard. Never got too boring when Vettel was winning all those races and championships. I am sure Bernie will have an awesome package lined up for them and then they will make some cockamamie story and stay on.
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Old 13th October 2015, 18:50   #18
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by avdhesh15 View Post
Most unsporting thing I ever heard. Never got too boring when Vettel was winning all those races and championships. I am sure Bernie will have an awesome package lined up for them and then they will make some cockamamie story and stay on.
Bernie's talking about Cosworth now !!
If RBR buys Cosworth, it might be an issue for Mercedes actually, since both their engine shops are close by and folks might go to Cosworth. Andy Cowell came from Cosworth to Mercedes. Interesting !!
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Old 13th October 2015, 20:51   #19
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

I personally think that RBR got against the ropes by themselves. Did read comments from the Horner and Newey that the opposition is scared hence not giving them the latest engines. Part of the performance I think is due to the way the car is designed with all honesty the Toro-Rosso guys are on a much lower budget and is thereabouts.

Newey's super tight packing for aero performance took a hit on the engine performance that's all it's about.
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Old 14th October 2015, 08:22   #20
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Maybe Dietricht Mateschitz is considering forming a ‘Red Bull Formula Series’ much like the 'Red Bull Air Race' if some of the rumours are to be believed.

This could see Adrian Newey designed cars on offer to prospective teams, with a single specification V8/10 engine form the older F1 days.

Under the contracts with FOM, current F1 circuits are barred from hosting single seater racing that would compete with Formula One, yet there are a lot of historic tracks which Red Bull could contract and inspire F1 fans to dream of the good old days of V10 & V8 engines.

Maybe this rumour is designed to motivate Bernie Ecclestone into solving RBR and Toro Rosso’s current engine predicament for 2016.

But the idea sounds a lot like A1 GP to me.
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Old 14th October 2015, 15:56   #21
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Right, now we have the FIA categorically stating that you cannot have B grade engines/Old engines etc for 2016-2020. So the Ferrari-STR partnership is also ruled out.
Will RBR go back to Renault ? Time will tell.
Btw, Renault plans takeover of Lotus by December only.
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Old 15th October 2015, 09:27   #22
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

In the press conference in Japan, Christian Horner repeated the reason as to why Red Bull cannot accept not being number one in Formula One; and why number two in the constructors race last year following four years at the top is unacceptable.

Quote:
“Red Bull’s position is different to teams such as McLaren or Williams or Ferrari. Formula One has to provide a return. A marketing return globally. And, in order to do that, you need to be able to not be restricted in terms of the tools at your disposal”.
It appears that unlike McLaren, Williams and Ferrari they are not in Formula One primarily to compete. They are in Formula One first and foremost for its marketing value. Racing is at best a secondary objective.

Maybe that's why none of the other "racing" teams care for their well being.
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Old 16th October 2015, 14:41   #23
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What did I just read! And what has Bernie been smoking?!
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ec...-bull/?v=2&s=1
A twin engine Formula just to keep Red Bull in? But I think this news is from before the engine manufacturers meet. Now that they have agreed for in-season development and old-spec engines, this can be rubbished, right?!
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Old 16th October 2015, 15:09   #24
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Bernie is desperate to find a solution for Red Bull or he may have to empty his pockets in compensation to Dietricht Mateschitz. Red Bull are in the big 5 like Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes.

I think all talks are with Ferrari only at the moment. Final call could be to supply current engines but not with all the latest updates. Deal with 2016 and then try to rope in a new manufacturer in 2017. That seems to be Red Bulls best bet at the moment.
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Old 16th October 2015, 17:13   #25
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The clock is ticking. They better come to a decision soon otherwise next season could be worse than this even if they do get a Ferrari (2015 spec) deal. Because they will still have to make appropriate chassis and aerodynamic changes to suit the new engine!
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Old 24th October 2015, 15:25   #26
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Here are the latest developments in the RedBull saga-
1.
Bernie Ecclestone has warned Red Bull that he is not willing to let it quit Formula One without being dragged through the courts.
Red Bull was granted preferable terms in its bi-lateral contract with the sport's commercial rights holder when it signed up to race in Formula One until 2020, but is now threatening to quit the sport because it cannot find a competitive engine supply for 2016. Ecclestone has made clear he is not willing to let the energy drinks company leave without holding it to the terms of its deal.
"Red Bull would stand up in court and say: 'Yes, we have a commitment, we do, but we haven't got an engine'," Ecclestone told the Independent. "My argument would be: 'You signed the contract to compete. You should have made sure when you signed the contract that you had an engine. Your team was supposed to do this.'"
Source: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...e-legal-battle

2.
Red Bull is not ruling out any options for an engine supply deal next year after the latest round of speculation linked the team to Honda for 2016.
Red Bull's decision earlier this year to cut its ties with current engine supplier Renault has led to a very public search for a replacement, in which it has been turned down by Mercedes and Ferrari. At the last round in Russia, there was speculation Red Bull might patch up its differences with Renault, but no solid progress has been made public on that front in the last two weeks.
Honda, which has struggled to get up to speed in its first year back in F1 as McLaren's supplier, ruled itself out of offering engines to a second team earlier this year, but with options looking increasingly slim for Red Bull, the latest rumours suggest the Japanese manufacturer may have had a change of heart now development has opened up for next year. Although such a scenario still seems unlikely and would require the blessing of McLaren, Horner is not willing to rule out any scenario at this stage.
"Well so far we've had the rumour of every single engine mentioned in the back of our car for next year, so they probably have a 25% chance if you look at it that way," he told Sky Sports. "There is so much speculation, a lot of opinion is being based on it, so when we have something to say and something is fixed ... it is being worked on very hard at the moment."
But despite the urgency, Horner said it is unlikely the situation would be resolved in the coming week.
"It'll be November next week then suddenly it is Christmas and then testing starts," he said. "We need to get something sorted over the next couple of weeks. It would be nice to have everything firmed up by the time we leave Mexico, but the likelihood of having it by then is unlikely."
Source: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...umours-surface

3.
Christian Horner has confirmed Red Bull was in talks with Volkswagen about a future partnership before the German manufacturer became embroiled in emissions testing controversy.
During the Singapore Grand Prix weekend the Red Bull--Volkswagen link resurfaced after the Milton Keynes team threatened to quit if it was not offered 2016 engine parity by Ferrari. In the weeks following the Singapore race it was revealed Volkswagen had been cheating on diesel emissions tests and Horner admits that scandal makes a partnership in the near future unlikely.
"Of course it is publicly known that there have been discussions with the VW group, but obviously with their current issues F1 is the last thing on their mind," Horner said. "There were other discussions,that will become apparent no doubt in the future as well, and other promises that were made. There is an awful lot of speculation and conjecture at the moment, but once everything is finalised everything will become extremely clear."
The "promises that were made" is likely a reference to Mercedes, who eventually turned down giving Red Bull its engines next year after seriously considering it. During the Friday press conference in Austin Horner made pointed reference to that -- and Ferrari's reported refusal -- by pondering whether the EU investigation triggered by Sauber and Force India's complaint about revenue shares would consider refusing to supply a team with an engine "anti-competition".
Red Bull's current lack of a 2016 engine has left it facing the prospect of tying to return to Renault power next season despite its spectacular falling-out this year, though Honda has become the latest manufacturer linked with a supply deal. Renault is currently in takeover talks with Lotus and Horner suggests the outcome of that will make Red Bull's situation clearer.
"Obviously discussions have been going on with Renault to understand what their plans are for next year. Until they commit to be in F1 or not, it is difficult at this stage to take it any further. We have an agreement with Renault that runs until the end of next year, about which there has been a lot of speculation. I am sure there will be confirmation of that agreement in the coming days."
Though admitting Red Bull quitting F1 is still an option owner Dietrich Mateschitz, Horner clarified: "For me it's not an option, we have to find a solution. I'm working very hard to make sure the team is on the grid for next year and beyond."
Horner refused to be drawn on whether he would personally intervene to save the team in a similar fashion to Ross Brawn when Honda pulled out of F1 suddenly at the end of 2008.
Source: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...lks-took-place
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Old 29th October 2015, 21:21   #27
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Default Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Eric Boullier says McLaren does not want to share its Honda engine supply with Red Bull because it did all the hard work bringing the Japanese manufacturer back into Formula One.

Red Bull is currently without an engine supplier for 2016 after it ended its contract with Renault in the hope of running a more competitive engine next season. Both Ferrari and Mercedes turned down the four-time champions, resulting in it approaching Honda about an engine deal. However, McLaren has the power to veto who the Japanese manufacturer supplies and racing director Boullier said it was not willing to have a rival swoop in and benefit from its hard work with Honda.

"Whatever you write, everyone has got an opinion," Boullier said. "The truth is, we wanted to work with Honda, Honda wanted to work with us as an official partnership because having an OEM official partner is the only way we believe to be world champion. If you are a customer of an engine manufacturer you can't be world champion.

"So this is a privilege obviously we found. We brought Honda into Formula One and we don't want to share. That's it. But I don't want to comment any more."

Bernie Ecclestone said in Austin that Honda was willing to supply other teams, but McLaren chairman Ron Dennis had made the decision to veto a Red Bull deal.

"The honest answer is that, at the moment, it would appear that Honda are happy to give them an engine, and Mr Dennis thinks they shouldn't," Ecclestone said. "Although Honda have an agreement with the FIA and myself that we allowed them into F1 supplying engines to one team in the first year, two teams the second and three teams the third, and they somehow got involved and made a commitment to Ron that he had a veto on any engine supply and he doesn't want Red Bull. I think he believes they may be competitors."

Ecclestone added that Red Bull could sit out a year and be welcomed back in 2017 when the FIA is planning to introduce a low-cost alternative engine for independent teams.

"If they wanted to stay out - for one year, two years, three years - we'd be happy to have them back."
Source: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...ull-honda-deal

Is Red Bull going to sit out next year? And come back in 2017 running the new cheaper alternative engine?
The grid will be incomplete without them and their specially fearless and fiery drivers!

But looks like the sister team, Toro Rosso, seems all set for a Ferrari 2015 PU. Thank god! Let's just hope they sign the dotted line soon.
The Faenza-based outfit knows that its future in F1 rests on Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz finding a solution to sister team Red Bull's engine crisis, but Tost is relaxed about his own situation.

With it understood that Ferrari has agreed in principle to supply Toro Rosso with 2015-specification power units, Tost knows that his team's plans can get sorted very quickly once the Red Bull solution is found.

"I am convinced that in a short period of time we will be sorted out," he told Motorsport.com.

"We have to be concentrated to get everything together in time with the drawing office to release the drawings and then once more, the production will be pushed very hard.

"But that is F1, that is how it is and we are prepared."

24-hour plan

The late change of engine plans means that Toro Rosso will be up against it to sort out the installation and 2016 car build in time for the first pre-season test next February.

However, the team has already put in place an emergency response to make sure it is ready - which will mean 24-hour shifts at the factory.

When asked what the deadline was to ensure Toro Rosso made the first test, Tost said: "We had a task force meeting last week regarding drawing releases and regarding productions, and we decided to shift to a three-shift production. So then we will see.

"But it is not in my hands to talk about a deadline, I have to accept what is coming."

Source: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-relaxed-about-engine-plans-as-ferrari-deal-nears/?v=2&s=1

Last edited by shyn : 29th October 2015 at 21:49.
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Old 5th November 2015, 09:19   #28
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Looks like Red Bull has found a solution for their Engine supply for 2016.

Apparently RBR will be running the Renault 12 token upgraded engine in Brazil. This power unit upgrade is supposed to be the result of a joint effort between Renault and the Red Bull appointed consultant Mario Illien at the new engine facility constructed by Red Bull Racing in building 9 at their HQ as reported by some journalists.

Red Bull Racing are supposedly confident they will start the 2016 season with a revised version of the current Renault 12 token upgraded ICE. The Red Bull Racing power unit for 2016 is expected to be branded as Infiniti, should they and Reanult-Nissan agree on this. If not, the engine development costs going forward will be met by Red Bull and another partner will be credited.
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Old 5th November 2015, 09:32   #29
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfxavier View Post
This power unit upgrade is supposed to be the result of a joint effort between Renault and the Red Bull appointed consultant Mario Illien at the new engine facility constructed by Red Bull Racing in building 9 at their HQ as reported by some journalists.
I wasn't aware of the emphasised part above - I have to give them credit for such an investment into the engine side of things (despite my criticism of all their trash talk the last 2 years).

Does this mean that RBRs engines (or all of Renault's engines) no longer come from Viry in France?
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Old 5th November 2015, 10:04   #30
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Default Re: Red Bull's threat to pull out from Formula 1

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
I wasn't aware of the emphasised part above - I have to give them credit for such an investment into the engine side of things (despite my criticism of all their trash talk the last 2 years).

Does this mean that RBRs engines (or all of Renault's engines) no longer come from Viry in France?
I had read that the facilities had a small track kind of arrangement indoors as well. But you know how these F1 journos are? You could take it with a pinch of salt.
Even Honda is supposed to be making their own facilities in Milton Keynes.

I think the mystery will be solved very soon with regards to the RBR engine.
Talks of unbranded Renault engines, Infinity branded Renault engines were all heard before.
"Let's see how it goes" is all we can say about the Red Bullies.

Last edited by jfxavier : 5th November 2015 at 10:07.
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