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Old 1st August 2016, 13:23   #31
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
what happened at the pitstop when the 5 sec penalty for Rosberg was taken, he was stationary for 12 odd seconds, a typical pit stop stationary time is 2 odd secs, plus the penalty time of 5 secs should have meant he should have been stationary for only maximum 8 secs. What actually happened.
Mercedes admitted that they had a stopwatch error in counting the 5 seconds, so erred on the side of caution by stopping him a bit longer, which ended up as over 8 seconds before the pit crew worked on his car.

Source: F1 Fanatic
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Old 1st August 2016, 13:53   #32
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Mercedes admitted that they had a stopwatch error in counting the 5 seconds, so erred on the side of caution by stopping him a bit longer, which ended up as over 8 seconds before the pit crew worked on his car.

Source: F1 Fanatic
But i thought the penalty is enforced by a FIA representative who is physically present during the pit stop who keeps the time for the penalty and then gives the all clear when it is taken so the mechanics can start working on the car.

Did i get it all wrong?

Last edited by Mohan Mathew A : 1st August 2016 at 13:56.
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Old 1st August 2016, 17:33   #33
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

One boring race that was, IMHO. Goos job by both the SFIs in finishing within points.
What Nico did was defensive, according to me and FIA should not make everything under scrutiny. A little off-limit, a little naughtiness brings in that much more interest in discussing the situations later on. If they want cars and drivers to behave properly and not be competitive, let them race a flock of ducks. They will all follow proper discipline and go one after the other :P
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Old 1st August 2016, 18:55   #34
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

It all seems to be going in favor of the 3 time world champion. And No other team looks competitive enough to come close to the Mighty Mercedes team.
If fact i dont see a team coming close to them in the next couple of seasons also.
This is like how Ferrari dominated the early 2000's and Schumacher took up so many championships without any real resistance.
Its a shame to see Ferrari in the lower top order now. NO bite in their fight.

But...

I cant complain. Iam a Hammer time fan and a Mercedes fan. Lewis most probably is on his way to become the Greatest driver in F1 history. Although thats a couple of years away. I do see it happening.
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Old 1st August 2016, 18:58   #35
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by gtonsing View Post
What Nico did was defensive, according to me and FIA should not make everything under scrutiny. A little off-limit, a little naughtiness brings in that much more interest in discussing the situations later on. If they want cars and drivers to behave properly and not be competitive, let them race a flock of ducks. They will all follow proper discipline and go one after the other :P
Nico Rosberg's behavior and driving is like a drowning man clutching at straws. He knows in his heart as loads of other people do that he is an inferior driver to Hamilton and sees the championship getting away from him. The earlier points advantage was simply because of power unit issues which Hamilton faced. Defensive driving is another thing altogether mate, for example the way Max Vestappen drove when he had a Ferrari behind him.

Do check the video again my friend, he was way beyond or very wide into the corner to run Max out of the track. To add insult to injury he lied on the radio as well, it was very clear he was not at steering lock till he ran Max wide.

And by the way, this was echoed by Mr. Niki Lauda besides of Max and the stewards too The rules are clearly set and Rosberg tries to cheat his way when he cannot drive to save position or otherwise and when he claimed pole inspite of waved double yellows.

Cheers

Last edited by Cyborg : 1st August 2016 at 19:04.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 06:19   #36
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by danlalan View Post
It all seems to be going in favor of the 3 time world champion. And No other team looks competitive enough to come close to the Mighty Mercedes team.
If fact i dont see a team coming close to them in the next couple of seasons also.
This is like how Ferrari dominated the early 2000's and Schumacher took up so many championships without any real resistance.
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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
Nice to see McLaren-Honda overtake in a race! Honda are allowed to work during the summer break from what I hear (on account of being a supplier). The Spa/Monza update will need to be a substantial one to guarantee a top 10 finish till the end of the season and to give the team a chance to make up the 39 point deficit to Force India in 9 remaining races.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avdhesh15 View Post
McLaren is one to watch out for post the summer break. Williams seem to be going downhill. I think we can expect McLaren to be racing with Williams and Force India for p4.
I have seen a few posts (fewer this year compared to last season) in various F1 forums doubting Honda’s capability to Challenge the mighty "European" manufacturers in this “modern” hi-tech PU era.
I don’t doubt their capabilities at all and am keenly watching Honda’s journey in this efficiency/ fuel flow limited formula.

They are having to deal with two different issues as they find themselves behind the development curve on these power units.
Max fuel flow : 100 kg/hr and Total race fuel : 100 kg.
Honda's ICE extracts energy from fuel a lot less efficiently than the others presently, and this is manifested as low power output during quali and increased fuel consumption during race. This is why it's so critical for Honda to introduce an advanced combustion concept. Doesn't make sense for a lot of people who think of Honda when hearing the words "fuel efficiency". Now we are talking about engines that are almost twice as efficient as the ones we use in our cars.

At first it seemed that in this Turbo V6 era, the leading F1 engine builders had solved all the problems of homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI), or at least were using a form of HCCI along with spark ignition. HCCI is somewhat the holy grail of combustion for an ICE. In its simplest form, an HCCI engine draws an air-fuel mixture into the cylinder, similar to a gas spark engine, then then ignites the mixture using compression, similar to a diesel engine. The best of both worlds, so to speak.
But later it became clear that they were using a Turbulent Jet Ignition (TJI) based concept that normally utilized two injectors per cylinder (one for the main air-fuel charge and a secondary injector just for the ignition chamber) adapted into a unique combustion chamber with a pre-ignition part that supports the spark plug, but still draws that approx.3% of fuel from the single main fuel injector as permitted in F1. Flame jets coming out of the small chamber ignites the compressed air-fuel mixture at several points simultaneously in the cylinder. This means you can have a fuel-rich mixture in the pre-chamber but a lean mix in the cylinder, and the leaner the main combustion event, the more efficient the engine.

The question here is, are Honda really strangers to this technology?

The simple answer would be "NO".

Mahle who supplied TJI design to Ferrari even mentions Honda very briefly in their presentations
Quote:
"Pre-chamber combustion concepts are not new” and “…investigated by many OEMs: Honda, VW, etc.,"
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Honda developed Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion (CVCC) technology for petrol engines for lean combustion via a prechamber in 1970, which some diesel engines had utilized since much earlier and was already in use in a petrol engine made in Russia. The Russian Nilov engine, developed in the late 1950s had a pre-chamber fed by a separate carburetor. The Nilov engine was probably developed to better ignite the poorly refined gas in the Soviet Union. This technology was developed for Honda's cars to meet Japanese and United States emission standards in the 1970s without a catalytic converter. As emission laws advanced and required more stringent admissible levels, Honda abandoned the CVCC method and introduced PGM-FI, or Programmed Fuel Injection on all Honda vehicles.
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It seems like they might have to revisit the concept albeit in a different way. Mahle took 5 years to develop the concept to F1 requirements, but maybe Honda won’t need that long as it’s an old trick they mastered, albeit a while ago.

And as they introduce their version of advanced combustion concept it is inevitable that the ICE will become more thermally efficient, and in turn the waste heat in the exhaust will reduce and therefore reduce the MGU-H’s ability to harvest. This could lead to another redesign of the turbine and hence the question of how much can be achieved in 2016 with the token system still in place.
But for the 2017 season, there will be no room for any excuses as the token system will be gone and Honda are free to change the PU design as they wish. We are all speculating as to what could happen, but it is obvious that the McLaren Honda team leaders and drivers seem ever optimistic compared to fans.
One thing is certain that Honda is trying to catch a moving target and they have to do a better job than others if they are to go back to their golden days of dominance in F1.
Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim-mcl-nose.jpg

Last edited by jfxavier : 2nd August 2016 at 06:32.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 12:37   #37
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Nico Rosberg's behavior and driving is like a drowning man clutching at straws.
GT: He may be clutching at straws but he also has the need to win and I am assuming he tried something that could pass off as a racing incident.

he is an inferior driver to Hamilton
GT: I disagree

To add insult to injury he lied on the radio as well,
GT: True and shouldn't have lied

Cheers
Thank you for your point of view my friend. But I still have some comments Inset above
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Old 2nd August 2016, 13:03   #38
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

Nico rosberg is just another Jacques Villeneuve/ Rubens barrichelo/Eddie Ervine/ David coulthard/Massa kind of guy.
Hes just here to play second fiddle and helps a team to pick up Championships point year after year in the hope that he might get a championship but in realty that not going to happen.
Iam sure he also know this somewhere deep down.

Last edited by danlalan : 2nd August 2016 at 13:07.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 13:40   #39
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

The only good thing that happens these days during GPs is that I am able to iron my clothes properly. What on earth is happening to this beautiful sport?
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Old 2nd August 2016, 13:47   #40
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

Have been a fan of Hamilton since he stole the thunder out of world champions in his first season. His rise has been meteoric.

I sense the ruthlessness more akin German drivers like Seb and Red Baron himself. Both were good at keeping their teammates know who the boss is and pressure them to be the second fiddle.

But with so many brickbats towards Nico, i cannot help but feel bad for Rosberg.

1) It is hard to follow the footstep of a father who was a world Champion (Even though only once) and not have won even once inspite of awesome machinery at your disposal.
2) Having a ruthless teammate who wins the heart of audience and team management does not help much either.
3) Youngsters with much weaker machinery trying to overtake on the outside would have been like the final deal breaker for poor Nico.

Pardon me for making a comparison with totally unrelated field.
Max Biaggi on a Yamaha and later on a RCV feeling helpless against Rossi is somewhat closer to the current situation of Nico and Hamilton.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 14:01   #41
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by danlalan View Post
Nico rosberg is just another Jacques Villeneuve/ Rubens barrichelo/Eddie Ervine/ David coulthard/Massa kind of guy.
Hes just here to play second fiddle and helps a team to pick up Championships point year after year in the hope that he might get a championship but in realty that not going to happen.
Iam sure he also know this somewhere deep down.
Agree, with the exception of JV, he was quite a character. Would not play 2nd fiddle.
Nico knows Lewis is better over a race distance, when he's 'on it'.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 14:15   #42
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

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Originally Posted by gtonsing View Post
Thank you for your point of view my friend. But I still have some comments Inset above
Need to win gtonsing? All 22 drivers have a need to win, that's why they are in F1. However, one needs the capability and the right car to do that as well. Nico Rosberg has the best car on the grid at the moment, but, can only do so when Hamilton has car issues or a bad day. His lack of ability is exactly why he has been unable and will not become world champion.

I also have a great need and desire to fly like superman but sadly not the ability or it would be real fun

Cheers
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Old 2nd August 2016, 23:43   #43
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Default Re: Formula 1: 2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

Nico seems desperate. Running someone off track in a flowing corner is different from doing that in a hair pin corner. Nico had everything going his way till he goofed up at the start, which seems to be a weak spot for Mercedes.

One thing that did not comeup anywhere was the instruction from team on lap 1 or 2 asking him to remember the plan for first 4 laps. Rosberg dropped his pace soon after that radio communication and stopped fighting.

Great start from Hamiton though. He practically won the race at the first corner. Max's overtake was a surprise. I was expecting an investigation for overtaking beyond the line, but nothing happened. I have a feeling the team internally swapped them due to it under the blanket of split strategies.

It was good to see McLaren showing some pace in the race. If they can somehow get around their fuel consumption rate, they can be a force to recon with. Williams needs to work hard during the break to make good use of the Merc engine.

MaSh
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