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Old 11th September 2017, 12:05   #46
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
But the rants are more calculated than people think. The team cant openly criticize Honda and I feel they have given Alonso the license to go ahead.

Now, the deal is done for McLaren Renault next year. With Renault back in the game, the PU will be closer to the Mercedes next year.
Smart move, a company cannot run on hope alone. Podiums a must next year to revive their image.
Of course they were calculated - by McLaren to put pressure on their engine partner. I don't think Alonso fully gauged the impact.
He has went on to say quite a few things - all more or less pointing that McLaren would be winning with any other power unit.

Now they'll have Renault power from 2018. What if the picture is another anticlimax come Melbourne or ahead? There is always a probability that the terrible Honda PU was masking any high speed shortfalls that the McLaren chassis had? If they end up designing a dog in 2018 or something with the aerodynamic efficiency of a truck that carries the Mercedes AMG F1 car, then McLaren & co. will just look away while Alonso will have to enroll for the blue whale challenge!

I feel as a world champion driver, he shouldn't have become the face of such direct blame game. He could give his comments behind the doors. In today's money oriented business world, everything he said also gets auto-pinned into his CV.

On the other hand - good to see one of the young guns - Carlos Sainz - at STR getting a drive with Renault besides the Hulk.
Nico Hulkenburg would really just be thinking what he needs to do to move up the ladder. He is just moving sideways for last 5-6 years now & seems to have run out of time to get a top drive now. Will just hang around in the mid field for a foreseeable future.

Last edited by Reinhard : 11th September 2017 at 12:09.
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Old 11th September 2017, 13:13   #47
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

Now I predict a Honda engine that trumps the Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault and does a Brawn in 2018. So far, that has been Alonso's journey!

This year, one of the most entertaining bit for me during a race has been when Alonso or Kimi come on the radio.

Not sure what is being termed as calculated criticism on Honda by Alonso, but the verbal tones to his engineer is just plain arrogance. Its a team game, it really doesn't reflect good on Alonso. Could be one reason, why nobody wants him in F1.

I feel he can pursue greatness in IndyCar or any spec series where its more the driver than the car.
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Old 11th September 2017, 14:12   #48
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What intrigues me a lot is how this "business" works. What on earth would have convinced STR to move away from Renault power to running a Japanese moped engine? Just money?
1. So Honda will be pouring in so much money to STR that they are ready to be the last in the standings from being a regular mid-field runner?
2. Does Honda really have so much at stake that they are ready to pay up such kind of money to stay in F1?
3. Wouldn't it have been a good chance for Honda to play a Cosworth and just pull the plug? Or they are bound by FIA/FOM contracts that they cannot move away from the sport till the next engine changes? That would be one of the silliest things if true.
4. How much whining will we see from Red Bull group owners, John Booth, Helmut Marko, Christian Horner (oh yeah he whines 24x7 so he will whine for this also by default) when (not if) the next year's Honda PU is just seen drawing lines of smoke plumes before coming to a halt at the end of the main straight?


And yes - what if the McLaren of 2018 also ends up being only in the mid-field with a Renault PU also? Remember that only RBR manages podiums with a Renault PU. They are still the masters with chassis & downforce. Will McLaren be able to match that, to actually come above mid-field and feature onto podiums? The likes of FIF1 and Williams Martini racing are failing to do it with the superior Mercedes engine.

Last edited by Reinhard : 11th September 2017 at 14:22.
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Old 11th September 2017, 14:54   #49
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

The Honda PU is among the worst to have ever been in F1. That is embarrassing, so much so they accepted Ilmor help which at one point was taboo.

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Of course they were calculated - by McLaren to put pressure on their engine partner. I don't think Alonso fully gauged the impact.
He has went on to say quite a few things - all more or less pointing that McLaren would be winning with any other power unit.

Now they'll have Renault power from 2018. What if the picture is another anticlimax come Melbourne or ahead? There is always a probability that the terrible Honda PU was masking any high speed shortfalls that the McLaren chassis had? If they end up designing a dog in 2018 or something with the aerodynamic efficiency of a truck that carries the Mercedes AMG F1 car, then McLaren & co. will just look away while Alonso will have to enroll for the blue whale challenge!

I feel as a world champion driver, he shouldn't have become the face of such direct blame game. He could give his comments behind the doors. In today's money oriented business world, everything he said also gets auto-pinned into his CV.

On the other hand - good to see one of the young guns - Carlos Sainz - at STR getting a drive with Renault besides the Hulk.
Nico Hulkenburg would really just be thinking what he needs to do to move up the ladder. He is just moving sideways for last 5-6 years now & seems to have run out of time to get a top drive now. Will just hang around in the mid field for a foreseeable future.
The what ifs have been on for 3 years now and no signs that Honda have gotten their act together. The time for betting/hoping/praying is over and McLaren cannot afford another season down in the dumps. They obviously back themselves in the chassis/aero dept. They would have enough data to make that decision. Renault are a safer bet.

I doubt any sponsors would stay if McLaren had another disastrous season.

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
What intrigues me a lot is how this "business" works. What on earth would have convinced STR to move away from Renault power to running a Japanese moped engine? Just money?
1. So Honda will be pouring in so much money to STR that they are ready to be the last in the standings from being a regular mid-field runner?
2. Does Honda really have so much at stake that they are ready to pay up such kind of money to stay in F1?
3. Wouldn't it have been a good chance for Honda to play a Cosworth and just pull the plug? Or they are bound by FIA/FOM contracts that they cannot move away from the sport till the next engine changes? That would be one of the silliest things if true.
4. How much whining will we see from Red Bull group owners, John Booth, Helmut Marko, Christian Horner (oh yeah he whines 24x7 so he will whine for this also by default) when (not if) the next year's Honda PU is just seen drawing lines of smoke plumes before coming to a halt at the end of the main straight?


And yes - what if the McLaren of 2018 also ends up being only in the mid-field with a Renault PU also? Remember that only RBR manages podiums with a Renault PU. They are still the masters with chassis & downforce. Will McLaren be able to match that, to actually come above mid-field and feature onto podiums? The likes of FIF1 and Williams Martini racing are failing to do it with the superior Mercedes engine.
Red Bull have a selfish hand to play in this, by making Toro Rosso a scapegoat. If and when Honda gets back on track they will shift to Honda power as well. Dont forget, Honda just saved $100 million that they were paying McLaren and will probably have to pay less than half to Toro Rosso.

Alonso no doubt played a big role, with Honda even putting up with his rants.
I think Honda would welcome a quieter 2018.

There is no doubt in my mind that McLaren simply had to chose a short term surety rather than play the waiting game again that has cost them so much these 3 years.

Now, McLaren might produce a lemon in 2018, but then again so might the top teams.
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Old 13th September 2017, 15:35   #50
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

Interesting prospects for 2018 with McLaren x Torro Rosso PU switch if happening:
Peter Prod. going head to head with Adrain Newey.
Ricciardo vs Alonso, Stoffel vs Max.
probably the McLaren technical staff needed this wake up call after never being really pushed to the limits for 3 years.

At least Mr.E thinks it's a done deal.

Quote:
"The Renault deal is all done. Alonso staying is super news," said Ecclestone.

"But I can't see why McLaren will be any happier with Renault than they are with Honda.

"It wasn't Honda's fault things didn't work out, it was McLaren's.

"Every day they had a fight about everything, instead of working with them, which was a little bit stupid."
http://en.f1i.com/news/279497-279497.html


Honda has been very tight lipped and restrained in the whole fiasco that is being unfurled through media outlets that are controlled by Zak.
He is a shrewd business man and hopefully he has lined up sponsors and wants to attract more using these "news".
Maybe Honda will not bring the spec 4.0 PU which was expected around Suzuka or so, in order to give more time for development in-house.
But I hope for their sake they do introduce the spec 4.0 and test it on track as they have been having serious co-relation problems from dyno to track this year.
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Old 13th September 2017, 17:09   #51
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

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Originally Posted by jfxavier View Post
Interesting prospects for 2018 with McLaren x Torro Rosso PU switch if happening:
Peter Prod. going head to head with Adrain Newey.
Ricciardo vs Alonso, Stoffel vs Max.
probably the McLaren technical staff needed this wake up call after never being really pushed to the limits for 3 years.

At least Mr.E thinks it's a done deal.



http://en.f1i.com/news/279497-279497.html


Honda has been very tight lipped and restrained in the whole fiasco that is being unfurled through media outlets that are controlled by Zak.
He is a shrewd business man and hopefully he has lined up sponsors and wants to attract more using these "news".
Maybe Honda will not bring the spec 4.0 PU which was expected around Suzuka or so, in order to give more time for development in-house.
But I hope for their sake they do introduce the spec 4.0 and test it on track as they have been having serious co-relation problems from dyno to track this year.
Apparently this is a done deal. I would love to hear the Toro Rosso- Honda deal done as well. It would be a shame to lose Honda as an engine supplier. I am pretty sure they would be much better off next year performance wise.

Meanwhile at Mercedes...Ferrari cannot seem to catch a break!! Fascinating numbers though.

Drive on,
Shibu.

Last edited by shibujp : 13th September 2017 at 17:11.
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Old 15th September 2017, 11:42   #52
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

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I am pretty sure they would be much better off next year performance wise.
You sound just like all the McLaren personnel over the last 3 years . All of us hope that, but don't bet on it. They have not managed to convert the results of a 1 cylinder prototype on the dyno into a full 3 cyl PU for the track for 3 years now. That is certainly not expected from a supposedly legendary brand like Honda. They are lost.

It would have been wonderful to see one of the European old guard coming back sooner than 2021 though. Cosworth is sourly missed. The last time they were in F1 with their V8, they may not have seen top results but damn was the Cosworth V8 one of the smoothest sounding engine out there!

Would be good to get Porsche back hopefully in 2021. At least a brand linked to the erstwhile AutoUnion legacy will come back on the board. I won't mind seeing Honda leave once again at all.

Honda simply doesn't seem to have the commitment or a proper plan to be in F1. Even the last time they had a half hearted project with Honda F1 & Super Aguri F1. Even with loads of money going in, no results. Then pulled the plug exactly when they were guaranteed to win the championship (that eventually BGP won). Having an own team rather than an engine supply deal was indeed the right thing. There is a tremendous cultural (and time zone) difference between Honda which is Japanese and the others who are from the West.
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Old 15th September 2017, 13:32   #53
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

And here's another news. I'm not sure what to even think about this.

Rosberg Joins Kubica's Management team for 2018

What exactly will Nico do about Kubica's fortunes for 2018? I personally don't think RK can be on the grid considering what his forearm has been through. But then F1 has seen many surprises. If the likes of Maldonado, Naraine Karthikeyan (No offence, I like the guy a lot & respect him for all his achievements. No complaints.) and so many more could be on the grid, Kubica can also be.

Apologies for the apparent back to back posts. But this news just came out & is not linked with the previous post. Mods please merge if prudent.

Last edited by Reinhard : 15th September 2017 at 13:36.
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Old 15th September 2017, 16:25   #54
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

McLaren has announced the switch from Honda to Renault PU from 2018.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/insi...1-partnership/

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/insi...m-partnership/

Honda has partnered with Torro Rosso instead for "multiple years".

How much difference this would make in the fortunes of McLaren and Torro Rosso next year is to be seen.
One would expect McLaren to move ahead and STR to move backwards in the grid based on assuming that Renault will be a better PU than Honda.
I would never under estimate what Honda can accomplish since they have been pushed out from the contract with McLaren.
Hopefully we will see a competitive RedBull Honda in 2019 as Renault is expected to not renew their RBR contract after 2018.
Meanwhile in 2018 we will be able to see McLaren & RedBull going head to head with same PU.

Last edited by jfxavier : 15th September 2017 at 16:38.
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Old 15th September 2017, 17:28   #55
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

What if the 2018 Honda indeed turns out to be a stonker of a PU? At the best - something that even beats Mercedes? (I'm in imaginary world, so anything is possible.)

People will pay for premium tickets of F1 weekends with paddock access just to see the faces of Mr. Brown and Mr. Boullier.



I always felt, they should have broken up after 2 years. They hung on. Now they should have stayed on for next year anyway. This Renault deal is not going to take them to the podium as a guarantee.
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Old 15th September 2017, 18:15   #56
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You sound just like all the McLaren personnel over the last 3 years . All of us hope that, but don't bet on it. They have not managed to convert the results of a 1 cylinder prototype on the dyno into a full 3 cyl PU for the track for 3 years now. That is certainly not expected from a supposedly legendary brand like Honda. They are lost.

Would be good to get Porsche back hopefully in 2021. At least a brand linked to the erstwhile AutoUnion legacy will come back on the board. I won't mind seeing Honda leave once again at all.

Honda simply doesn't seem to have the commitment or a proper plan to be in F1. Even the last time they had a half hearted project with Honda F1 & Super Aguri F1. Even with loads of money going in, no results. Then pulled the plug exactly when they were guaranteed to win the championship (that eventually BGP won). Having an own team rather than an engine supply deal was indeed the right thing. There is a tremendous cultural (and time zone) difference between Honda which is Japanese and the others who are from the West.
Given their improvements over the season I feel they must be close. I also think that Honda have been successful in F1 when they played only the role of an engine supplier.

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 15th September 2017, 21:31   #57
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

Not sure if this is the right place to share this but finally can we all Indian fans have a slight ray of hope that this comes true:

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/formula-o...ome-topstories
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Old 15th September 2017, 22:28   #58
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Historic partnerships announced for 2018. I can't remember anything as complex as what we just witnessed between McLaren, Renault, Toro Rosso, Honda and Red Bull in the history of the sport this side of the fence.. (I know Bernie has pulled off a few outrageous ones).

Everybody got what they wanted. Awesome.

Last edited by GTO : 22nd September 2017 at 16:46. Reason: typo
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Old 17th September 2017, 15:50   #59
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

After the Force India announcement WRT Sergio, here's how the lineup looks like for 2018 so far.

Name:  drivers 2018.jpg
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Old 22nd September 2017, 15:37   #60
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Default Re: Formula 1 - The 2018 Season

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Not sure if this is the right place to share this but finally can we all Indian fans have a slight ray of hope that this comes true:

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/formula-o...ome-topstories
I don't think we'll see F1 back at the BIC soon. Its not making a financial sense to any of the involved parties. Neither the teams, nor the promoters, nor the government. Looking at the poor attendance at last 2 races - fans are preferring to watch it on TV too rather than making the journey to the wonderful BIC. The track and stands while exceptional in standard, have the usual Herman Tilke design philosophy. The track is a bit boring from racing perspective.

To be honest - I'd rather have one of the better classic tracks back on the calendar than an Indian GP. Nothing to do with my love for the country, but the race was simply too dusty and everything appeared too dull on TV.

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Originally Posted by jfxavier View Post
After the Force India announcement WRT Sergio, here's how the lineup looks like for 2018 so far.

Attachment 1676822
Alonso was saying recently that he has a lot of other exciting opportunities in F1 for next season. Maybe he was talking of a Sauber-Ferrari seat as a pay driver.
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