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Old 11th September 2007, 20:51   #46
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Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
And like Dippy, I too take offense to the fact that Schumi was sent to the back of the grid of last years' Monaco GP, when for a brazen depiction of the same, Alonso was let off with just a slap on the wrist ! Yeah right, the FIA sure is biased towards Ferrari !?!

P.S. I don't think Schumi deliberately 'parked' his car at Rascasse last year - so there !
Wow... I see how supporting a team can blind the facts. Schumi was driving for Ferrari and he ruined Alonso's lap who was driving for Renault. It happened between two teams. Alonso ruined Hamilton's qualifier and they both are driving for McLaren which means it was intra-team. Now if Schumi got back of the grid penalty, then McLaren as a team lost all constructors points. Isn't that much bigger than what Ferrari got as punishment? We can go on and on... but the timing and the way FIA penalizes people are never the same.
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Old 11th September 2007, 21:18   #47
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As an ardent ferrari fanatic , iam completly writing off this year's championship , wouldn't be thrilled even if they clinch the championship after mclaren's are penalised .(which i really doubt)

believe the british team with a brit driver ,will come out unscathed by a council ruled by a british boss for spying (subject to verdict) in a championship run by a brit.....
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Old 12th September 2007, 11:20   #48
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Hi Madhav, yes, I have to agree, being a fan can blind you to the facts. And yes, you're right, McLaren as a team lost championship points in Hungary ( yay ), & Alonso was sent a FEW places down the grid. But, whether that's a bigger penalty than Schumi being sent to the back of the grid is suspect...

I'm also trying to make the point that Ferrari are always looked on as the "dark-side" of F1, everything they do is suspect ! Haven't accidents, crashes, & stalled cars ever disrupted a hot qualifying run before ? To term it was a "deliberate" act of sabotage was crazy, & are we all certain that Alonso would've definitely won pole if Rascasse had not been blocked ?

I also ask the question, should the punishment that is meted out vary depending on whether the infraction is inter-team or intra-team ? I mean, if Alonso is leading by a point in the last race of 2007, & "deliberately" crashes into the back of Lewis, taking them both out - should his punishment be less severe since he only took out his team-mate ? By the way, in this "imaginary" scenario, Kimi goes on to win the race, & the championship !

Ferrari rulez !
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Old 12th September 2007, 12:16   #49
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The amount of blind supporters here for Ferrari amazes me.
@im_srini
If you think that MS didnít park his car deliberately at Rascasse, then I very much doubt if you would see the light of my case. Though I am pretty impressed with your knowledge on F1 stats. Would be interesting to meet up with you some day.
@nitrous
There are posts and then there are meaningless posts. Your post number 42 in this thread is one of them.
@Rtech
I donít doubt for a second that Ferrari is history personified for F1, but my post there was taken out of context. Ferrari didnít win too many races till the cheaters from Benenton joined them in 96. What pains me is that all the hard work which Enzo did in his life time is being thrown to the dogs with Toady and company.
McLaren might not be clean in the scandal, heck anyone operating on that level has to be dirty, but the way FIA is pounding it, is clear enough to me that itís the Ferrari Insiders Association.
The problem is I can present facts after facts starting from 01 to 04 which wil throw light on Ferraries performance vis-ŗ-vis the unholy alliance they had with Bridgestone, but you guys will never buy my story.
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Old 12th September 2007, 12:19   #50
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Originally Posted by madhav View Post
Wow... I see how supporting a team can blind the facts. Schumi was driving for Ferrari and he ruined Alonso's lap who was driving for Renault. It happened between two teams. Alonso ruined Hamilton's qualifier and they both are driving for McLaren which means it was intra-team. Now if Schumi got back of the grid penalty, then McLaren as a team lost all constructors points. Isn't that much bigger than what Ferrari got as punishment? We can go on and on... but the timing and the way FIA penalizes people are never the same.
They wont see our point Madhav. Ones just got the let these things go.
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Old 12th September 2007, 13:25   #51
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McLaren might not be clean in the scandal, heck anyone operating on that level has to be dirty, but the way FIA is pounding it, is clear enough to me that it’s the Ferrari Insiders Association.
I would have to disagree with you there. Yes, there are a number of decisions taken during a race that would seem to side with Ferrari, but, you also must remember that the FIA and Formula 1 essentially changed the rules of the game to break the Ferrari monopoly! I don't know of any other team in the history of F1 that forced the governing body to actually make the rules harder for them to win!

That alone should be enough of an example to show that it really isn't a Ferrari party out there.
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Old 12th September 2007, 13:38   #52
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I have the following queries:

1. If McLaren get penalized the whole hog, can they appeal against it?

2. If the answer to Q1 is Yes, what would be the duration for the appeal to be heard?

Basically, what I'm moving at is whether the status of the championship can be decided/changed by an FIA tribunal after its conclusion in Brazil on October 21 ?


On a related note, McLaren is doing another "Ferrari" on Renault now.
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Old 12th September 2007, 13:44   #53
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1. Yes.

2. Within 30 days

3. Yes.
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Old 12th September 2007, 16:42   #54
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
I would have to disagree with you there. Yes, there are a number of decisions taken during a race that would seem to side with Ferrari, but, you also must remember that the FIA and Formula 1 essentially changed the rules of the game to break the Ferrari monopoly! I don't know of any other team in the history of F1 that forced the governing body to actually make the rules harder for them to win!

That alone should be enough of an example to show that it really isn't a Ferrari party out there.
When Mercedes was dominating the 98-99 season, they had engines which were using BeryliumÖ. the FIA banned them. McLaren were the hardest hit by the ban. When Ferrari tried everything to get on even terms with McLaren on aero terms, their power plants could never get close to the ILLMOR produced brutes which were powering the McLaren. Ross Brawn brought this to FIA notice.
In October 6th, 1999 FIA banned Berylium though the only teams using that substance was Peugot (a small team run by Prost) and McLaren.
McLaren were doomed, even then they managed to come up with a car which was a scorcher (season 2000), but had engine problems since they were not given the time required to design and build reliable engines. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

MS and Rubens make a mockery of a race during the USGP 04. No one gets penalized despite the fact that the whole thing looked staged. Alonso holds up his teammate this year and McLaren gets docked their constructorís points and Alonso is sent 5 places back. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

Not to mention the sudden rule change during the 03 campaign when Williams and McLaren were giving Ferrari a run for its money, the FIA intervened and changed the rule with regards to the FLEXI walls of the Michelin rubbers. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

Banning Renaults Mass dampers mid season so that Ferrari get a performance advantage in 06! WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

This year the softer compound was introduced only to assist the Ferrari, as there is no other team, which is benefiting from the softer compound, and that compound is the faster of the two compounds, at least for Ferrari. Isnít the rule in itself ridiculous? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?
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Old 12th September 2007, 16:47   #55
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I am really not going to say anything as your mind is made up! These conspiracy theories simply add to the spectacle! Gotto love it!

Just out of curiosity, are you one of those who think the the whole landing on the moon thing was a hoax?
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Old 12th September 2007, 17:35   #56
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@Racingforindia : you seem to be knowing a lot about F1 , you should also be knowing how long it takes for a car to gel with a new manufacturer's tyres (Bridgestone in this case)

Can't believe how mclaren works so well with the bridgestones so quickly , while others are struglling to do so
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Old 12th September 2007, 17:59   #57
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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Have you ever watched a circus or a magic show without some suspense, humour and drama? t's all part of the circus and magic shows. If you forget the surroundings and enjoy the show.
Very true. All this Ferrari Mclaren debate is pointless IMO. Although this is exactly what Bernie feeds off and keeps things going.

C'mon guys. After all he is running a show. It's his show. And thereby, I guess he has every right to introduce controversies, scandals etc. that will help increase and retain viewer interest and keep F1 at the pinnacle of motorsports.
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Old 12th September 2007, 18:39   #58
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
are you one of those who think the the whole landing on the moon thing was a hoax?
Don't ask me how I know, but I know for a fact that a Ferrari never landed on the moon.
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Old 12th September 2007, 18:45   #59
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Looking at it from a slightly different angle, maybe the changes were introduced to retain viewership. Since it was getting monotonous seeing Ferrari win and lots of viewers were loosing interest in the sport. Banning Mclaren would again mean Ferrari domination and no competition. And once again the sport will suffer. So I guess they will be stripped of the titles, heavy fines levied and MAYBE allowed to continue racing.
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Old 12th September 2007, 22:32   #60
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
So I guess they will be stripped of the titles, heavy fines levied and MAYBE allowed to continue racing.
I agree that they will be fined heavily, however I dont think titles would be stripped as this would only mean loss in interest again from people like me who think F1 favors Ferrari a tad too much.

Apart from that this is actually helping F1 gain more popularity so they willl just drag the whole fiasco on for as long as they can.
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