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View Poll Results: Constructor's Championshop Prediction
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Old 9th September 2008, 14:51   #2866
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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Maybe a side on picture will tell the full story. The video definitely does.
Another perspective for you. In this picture you can see the gap when Hamilton slots into the run off area!

Racing is just not about driving fast, its also about using the track space to beat your opponent than to take short cuts which eventually would give a performance advantage.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:15   #2867
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Suman, the onboard clip from formulamag.com mentioned in one of the earlier posts shows that they entered the chicane together and Kimi suddenly came to the left and closed the door as he should have. For Hamilton, it would only be safer to cut across rather than go round the chicane and risk hitting Kimi's car.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:18   #2868
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Dude pictures can be decieving, it shows only one frame of the whole scene.

If you watch the vid, you can see that Hamilton was right next to Kimi just before he had to cut the corner and then he let Kimi overtake him.

Moreover, even the gap in the pic is nowhere close to being 1.9 secs behind.

And theres no way Lewis could have got a drive through even if there were 50 laps remaining coz he didn't do anything wrong. There have been many cases where drivers cut corners, let the other guy pass them and get away without a drive through.

I can bet that if Kimi had won, all of this would have gone un noticed.

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Last edited by Shan2nu : 9th September 2008 at 15:33.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:20   #2869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Suman, the onboard clip from formulamag.com mentioned in one of the earlier posts shows that they entered the chicane together and Kimi suddenly came to the left and closed the door as he should have. For Hamilton, it would only be safer to cut across rather than go round the chicane and risk hitting Kimi's car.
That "suddenly" bit would happen because of the on-board angle wouldn't it, given the track layout?

On the large screen, it was quite clear all along that Kimi wasn't going to give him room but Hamilton was pursuing that non-existent line regardless - he knew he was going to short-cut that chicane; that's how it looked to me at least.

Besides, since when has Hamilton been so concerned about hitting Kimi's car ?

See, the fact of the matter was, the minute the rain came, it was a foregone conclusion that Hamilton was going to go for gold. He had nothing to lose since even if he went out & Kimi won, he would still lead Kimi in the championship.

Last edited by suman : 9th September 2008 at 15:24.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:29   #2870
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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
they entered the chicane together and Kimi suddenly came to the left and closed the door as he should have. For Hamilton, it would only be safer to cut across rather than go round the chicane and risk hitting Kimi's car.
Even if it is true that Kimi came to his left and closed the passage, as far as I know F1 cars do have BRAKES, Hammy should have applied the same instead of taking the short-cut to success!

F1 racing is racing on the tracks, though most of the times they accelerate to the hilt, sometimes they need to brake as well!
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:29   #2871
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Originally Posted by suman View Post

Besides, since when has Hamilton been so concerned about hitting Kimi's car ?

.

That was a nice one.

Kimi would have had a horrid time in his car with all the antics played by Hamilton.

No comments since person sitting in the car would know how difficult it would have been in that situation.

Kimi sure deserves a better results.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:30   #2872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
That "suddenly" bit would happen because of the on-board angle wouldn't it, given the track layout?

On the large screen, it was quite clear all along that Kimi wasn't going to give him room but Hamilton was pursuing that non-existent line regardless - he knew he was going to short-cut that chicane; that's how it looked to me at least.
For me, he expected Kimi to back off. But, Kimi didn't - no racer would and that's fair.

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Besides, since when has Hamilton been so concerned about hitting Kimi's car ?
Who wants to risk a DNF?
It's between a Ferrari and McLaren fan here. Always gonna be tough to convince the other.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:31   #2873
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For me, he expected Kimi to back off. But, Kimi didn't - no racer would and that's fair.
You are spot on about that
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:49   #2874
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Wonder what would have happened if Massa and Hamilton were in each other's places. How would Ferrari have reacted to a decision like this...

They probably would have blown off the roof...
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:54   #2875
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You guys are missing the point, the discussion is not about what happened only at the corner, it's what happened after it as well. If Hamilton had kept his lead then yes he would have been wrong, but he didn't. He clearly came behind Kimi and then overtook him at the next corner.

Which ever way you look at it, there's nothing wrong with that.

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Even if it is true that Kimi came to his left and closed the passage, as far as I know F1 cars do have BRAKES, Hammy should have applied the same instead of taking the short-cut to success!
Speaking of brakes, do you rem the Kimi Sutil incident at Monaco? Poor Sutil (on his way to a best finish ever) got a DNF for no fault of his but was Kimi given any sort of penalty? Is it ok for a Ferrari to lose control on track taking someone out of a race but a Mclaren driver can't even cut a corner to avoid collision....in the wet.....on racing slicks???

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Last edited by Shan2nu : 9th September 2008 at 15:59.
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Old 9th September 2008, 15:59   #2876
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Shan2nu,

Read what Hamilton gotta say in the post-race conference (courtesy crash dot net), he accepted that he was accelerating as kimi was passing by so as to not loose the momentum.

Thats plain stupid considering he could have overtaken Kimi at the next straight with ease.

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Old 9th September 2008, 16:00   #2877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
For me, he expected Kimi to back off. But, Kimi didn't - no racer would and that's fair.


Who wants to risk a DNF?
It's between a Ferrari and McLaren fan here. Always gonna be tough to convince the other.
As Finney mentioned earlier, any racing is not just about flat out driving. Its also about using the brakes as required during the course of the race to keep the car on the racing track.

Kimi did a mistake by braking early going into the final corner where Hamilton wanted to take the advantage as he might have felt its a now or never moment, dint want to lose the pace he had and took the short cuts to Victory!

When Hamilton was behind Kimi through the chicane, he had the fair choice of slowing down and taking the chicane behind Kimi which would have created a 2 or 3 cars space on the final straight. Hamilton dint opt for losing the pace he got into the corner and took the short cut. He was penalised for that. Also when he allowed Kimi to pass he was right on the slip stream of Kimi which basically gives more advantage for Hamilton to perform the perfect slingshot.

This story is same as Hamilton's overtaking on Vettel in France08.

Massa's quote in his Italian preview mentioned

"Immediately after the podium ceremony, we knew the incident was under investigation and my first reaction was to find out what had actually happened, as I didn't see it when I was on the track. What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again. Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained. If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter.

Its more evident that these things are discussed between the drivers prior to the race and it was unethical of Hamilton to do such an act.
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:01   #2878
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Is it ok for a Ferrari to lose control on track taking someone out of a race but a Mclaren driver can't even cut a corner to avoid collision....in the wet.....on racing slicks???
Only if they're not racing each other & not fighting for the championship

And Shan2nu, that bit about Hamilton trying to "avoid" collision - a collision that he had engineered himself LOL; somehow, that "innocent little choir boy Lewis" doesn't quite wash!

Last edited by suman : 9th September 2008 at 16:05.
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:05   #2879
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Read what Hamilton gotta say in the post-race conference (courtesy crash dot net), he accepted that he was accelerating as kimi was passing by so as to not loose the momentum.
U mean after cutting the corner? If that is true then theres no case at all against the penalty?

But didn't the Mclaren telemetry show that Lewis backed off while Kimi was pasing by?

Wierd stuf man. F1 is bcoming such a sick sport.

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Old 9th September 2008, 16:08   #2880
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Quote:
And Shan2nu, that bit about Hamilton trying to "avoid" collision - a collision that he had engineered himself LOL; somehow, that "innocent little choir boy Lewis" doesn't quite wash!
Well looks like Lewis accepts that he didn't back off after the corner, so thats that then. Theres no way anyone will back him after that statement.

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