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Old 9th September 2008, 16:10   #2881
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U mean after cutting the corner? If that is true then theres no case at all against the penalty?
Read more about it here -
The Official Formula 1 Website

An excerpt -
Q: (Ed Gorman - The Times) Lewis, are you aware that the stewards have announced they are investigating an incident between yourself and Kimi? We're not sure exactly which one it was. Are you aware of that and what could your thoughts be? Is there any part where you felt that you'd contravened the rules?
LH: Absolutely not. I will explain what happened. It began to rain. I caught Kimi and I got a good tow from him down the back straight and I was in a good position to dive down the inside at turn 18. He covered his spot, which was fair, but he braked very, very early, so I was able to outbrake him and go round the outside which I did. I left him enough room, I didn't close the gap so much that he had to go on a kerb, I left him enough room, yet he accelerated or picked up more pace going into the corner, and drove me as wide as he possibly could. I had no road left. There was a question I had to ask: if I stay where I am, I'm going to go over the Astroturf… there's some green bit behind the big kerb, the last kerb… and go over it and hit him. Or I go left. That was the option I had to do, I did it. I knew that I had to let him past and also the team came over the radio and said 'you have to let him past' which I did. I was accelerating so that I didn't lose too much ground because I thought that would be unfair. Fortunately I got back in his slipstream and again, he moved to the inside and back to the outside and again, I dodged him and went up the inside and at the apex to the corner he hit me at the back, and that nearly caused me to spin, but fortunately I kept hold of it and went on from there. That was a great fight and I don't think there was anything wrong there. The rules say you should let him back past which I did.
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:11   #2882
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Speaking of brakes, do you rem the Kimi Sutil incident at Monaco? Poor Sutil (on his way to a best finish ever) got a DNF for no fault of his but was Kimi given any sort of penalty? Is it ok for a Ferrari to lose control on track taking someone out of a race but a Mclaren driver can't even cut a corner to avoid collision....in the wet.....on racing slicks???

Shan2nu
That was a incident where a driver lost control of his car in wet conditions at more than 280KMPH. We are talking about a incident where a driver DELIBERATELY cuts a chicane to gain advantage on his championship contender.
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:17   #2883
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That was a incident where a driver lost control of his car in wet conditions at more than 280KMPH. We are talking about a incident where a driver DELIBERATELY cuts a chicane to gain advantage on his championship contender.
Deliberate is a very strong word there dude. if he had to do that he would have just gone straight ahead and not even tried to turn.

Anyway, i think this is pretty much over after the acc statement by Hamilton.

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Old 9th September 2008, 16:26   #2884
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I was accelerating so that I didn't lose too much ground because I thought that would be unfair.
Hmm, he didn't really say what you guys said he did. Accelerated yes, but not to prevent Kimi from overtaking but to make sure he didn't lose too much ground after Kimi has passed.

There's obviously a diff there.

So it's still not very clear what actually happened, even though Mclaren telemetry shows Hamilton was around 5-6kmph slower than Kimi on the straight after the corner.

The Official Formula 1 Website

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Last edited by Shan2nu : 9th September 2008 at 16:28.
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:39   #2885
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Shan2nu,
Read what Hamilton gotta say in the post-race conference (courtesy crash dot net), he accepted that he was accelerating as kimi was passing by so as to not loose the momentum.
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Hmm, he didn't really say what you guys said he did. Accelerated yes, but not to prevent Kimi from overtaking but to make sure he didn't lose too much ground after Kimi has passed.
What did we say
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:47   #2886
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What did we say
Yo'l were making the word "accelerated" look as if he did something wrong. But it wasn't.

There was no need to mark that line in bold letters, coz it was insignificant.

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Old 9th September 2008, 16:49   #2887
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Deliberate is a very strong word there dude. if he had to do that he would have just gone straight ahead and not even tried to turn.

Anyway, i think this is pretty much over after the acc statement by Hamilton.

Shan2nu
In the F1 website post-race conference, Hamilton has mentioned that his team came on the radio asking him to let Kimi pass him as he cut the chicane to overtake Kimi.
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Old 9th September 2008, 16:53   #2888
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In the F1 website post-race conference, Hamilton has mentioned that his team came on the radio asking him to let Kimi pass him as he cut the chicane to overtake Kimi.
Yeah they did. And the telemetry shows that even though Hamilton was accelerating, he was only doing it so that he didn't lose to much time behind Kimi. It had nothing to do with preventing Kimi from passing him.

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Old 9th September 2008, 16:59   #2889
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Shan2nu,

The whole point was about the advantage, Hamilton would have had in cutting through and not about preventing Kimi from passing.

As many F1 pundits quoted, there is a difference between accelerating side-by-side than behind a F1 car.

Does that call for such measures from stewards, I wouldnt know. They also quote, had the race had more laps to be completed, Hamilton would definitely have been slapped with drive-thru penalty which might/might-not have put him out of 3rd position even.

+Rocky+
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Old 9th September 2008, 17:03   #2890
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The whole point was about the advantage, Hamilton would have had in cutting through and not about preventing Kimi from passing.
How is it an advantage when hamilton was behind Kimi braking for the next corner? It's Kimi's fault that he let him through at the hairpin. If you see the vid, Kimi moved to the outer side of the hairpin giving Hamilton room on the inside, which he was more than glad to take.

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Old 9th September 2008, 17:16   #2891
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How is it an advantage when hamilton was behind Kimi braking for the next corner?
I thought he outbraked Kimi at the next corner, isn't there a difference? And the additional momentum he gained by short cutting the chicane allowed him to do so.........
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Old 9th September 2008, 17:23   #2892
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if you cut the corner you have to give up the place made. in this case hamilton had better acceleration cause he cut the corner and he definetly had an unfair advantage. as a;ways hamilton showed his inexperience. mclaren have a much superior car than ferrari in slippery condition (remember alonso overtaking massa in european GP 07). Lewis definetly would have overtaken kimi before the end of the race. as for kimi he the real racer, he wanted 10 points or crash and burn trying for that. Hail Kimi
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Old 9th September 2008, 17:29   #2893
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Isnt it true that if you overtake by shooting over the chicane you should allow the the other to go ahead to almost the same distance as it was before the advantage ?
Hi guys, that's exactly the point, there is no rule set down for situations like this - the closest is article 30.4-A in the Sporting-Regulations:

30.4 A) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behavior on circuits.

To make matters worse, the International Sporting Code does not contain any provisions for passes made off-track. And, Lewis did relinquish the track position he'd gained by cutting the chicane - it was Kimi's mistake in not defending it going into La-Source.

Even if an undue advantage was gained, I don't see the justification for the rather stiff penalty Lewis was stuck with. I agree Kimi drove splendidly & it was a shame to see him crash just 2 laps from the end, but the win was Hamilton's.

One way or another, Spa 2008 is sure to leave a sour taste in the mouth. I'd like to see Ferrari win races as much as the next Tifosi, but not like this - this was a very hollow victory.

P.S. - Just curious, so what happens in situations like this - the podium guys exchange their trophies ?
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Old 9th September 2008, 18:01   #2894
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I thought he outbraked Kimi at the next corner, isn't there a difference? And the additional momentum he gained by short cutting the chicane allowed him to do so.........
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if you cut the corner you have to give up the place made. in this case hamilton had better acceleration cause he cut the corner and he definetly had an unfair advantage. as a;ways hamilton showed his inexperience. mclaren have a much superior car than ferrari in slippery condition (remember alonso overtaking massa in european GP 07). Lewis definetly would have overtaken kimi before the end of the race. as for kimi he the real racer, he wanted 10 points or crash and burn trying for that. Hail Kimi
Please watch the vid again, Kimi was out accelerating Hamilton on the straight after the last corner (Infact, Kimi was already ahead when they crossed the start finish line). If Hamilton had really gained an advantage he would have been well ahead of Kimi braking for the hairpin (why do you think he ended up behind him).

Here's the youtube version of the video (watch the footage 3mins 30 onwards) -

Quote:
To make matters worse, the International Sporting Code does not contain any provisions for passes made off-track. And, Lewis did relinquish the track position he'd gained by cutting the chicane - it was Kimi's mistake in not defending it going into La-Source.
Yup, thats all there is to it.

Quote:
One way or another, Spa 2008 is sure to leave a sour taste in the mouth. I'd like to see Ferrari win races as much as the next Tifosi, but not like this - this was a very hollow victory.
Same here, even though im not a mclaren or ferrari fan, i was rooting for Massa to win this one and close the gap as much as possible.

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Last edited by Shan2nu : 9th September 2008 at 18:06.
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Old 9th September 2008, 18:44   #2895
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Please watch the vid again, Kimi was out accelerating Hamilton on the straight after the last corner (Infact, Kimi was already ahead when they crossed the start finish line). If Hamilton had really gained an advantage he would have been well ahead of Kimi braking for the hairpin (why do you think he ended up behind him).

Here's the youtube version of the video (watch the footage 3mins 30 onwards) -

Yup, thats all there is to it.

Shan2nu
Hi, if you watch the video, from 03:30 for the next five seconds, it is clear that once hamilton got to know that kimi has blocked his line, he deliberately chose to straight line the chicane. i feel that he could have braked hard and followed him in the racing line.
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