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View Poll Results: Constructor's Championshop Prediction
Ferrari 26 65.00%
McLaren 11 27.50%
Renault 2 5.00%
BMW Sauber 0 0%
Toyota 0 0%
Honda 0 0%
Red Bull 0 0%
Toro Rosso 0 0%
Super Aguri 0 0%
Williams 1 2.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 30th September 2008, 16:47   #3166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raajiv
For ferrari to win the title,it is high time they ignore the high-tech signalling system in the pits and use the good old technique of using the lollipop man instead.
Before everyone jumps on the new tech, please realize that this same gadget must have saved a few tenths in the races where it didnt malfunction.
We should give it to Ferrari for having the guts to try out such risky ,high tech devices.
Of course, as proven, this thing requires some heavy testing and re-engineering.
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Old 30th September 2008, 16:48   #3167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raajiv View Post
For ferrari to win the title, it is high time they ignore the high-tech signalling system in the pits and use the good old technique of using the lollipop man instead.
I don't think employing a lolly-pop man is going to solve Ferrari's problems. Besides, I think Ferrari have commented that they went manual during the pit stop because of the chaotic post-safety-car scenario & the fact that they had 2 cars in very good track positions trundling down the pit-lane. The system would've worked if whoever was manning it hadn't developed itchy trigger fingers & jumped the gun !

Regarding Kimi's form - apparently the F2008's fundamentals have changed & he's having more trouble adapting to it than Massa - last year the shoe was on the other foot. He's an amazing driver & exudes raw talent - I just pray he's able to turn things around before he retires...

Granted Alonso drove a great race, but he was at the right place at the right time - if you think about it, it wasn't brilliant race strategy, he was simply running light ! And as talented as Flavio is, I think predicting safety car periods is beyond even him

Last edited by im_srini : 30th September 2008 at 16:51.
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Old 30th September 2008, 17:10   #3168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raajiv View Post
For ferrari to win the title,it is high time they ignore the high-tech signalling system in the pits and use the good old technique of using the lollipop man instead.

Coulthhard also ran in the same problem like massa,but his swift action in braking the car early fetched him the seventh place.Experience speaks :-)
Coulthard ran into the same problem & Red Bull were using the good old lollipop, so technology isn't the real reason is it?

I think Ferrari pit crew were pressurized into giving Massa the green light way too early simply because they realized that Kimi was in the queue (nothing unusual, haven't Ferrari been making this blunder time & again in a Safety Car situation).
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Old 30th September 2008, 17:18   #3169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Coulthard ran into the same problem & Red Bull were using the good old lollipop, so technology isn't the real reason is it?

I think Ferrari pit crew were pressurized into giving Massa the green light way too early simply because they realized that Kimi was in the queue (nothing unusual, haven't Ferrari been making this blunder time & again in a Safety Car situation).
Suman,

You are absolutely right.But,atleast given the high risk that Ferrari is losing in this 08 championship,they could discard this hi-fi technology atleast till the end of this season.

My feeling is that the Mclaren team are very good when their car's come during the race-pitstops compared to the Ferrari's.
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Old 30th September 2008, 18:42   #3170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Coulthard ran into the same problem & Red Bull were using the good old lollipop, so technology isn't the real reason is it?

I think Ferrari pit crew were pressurized into giving Massa the green light way too early simply because they realized that Kimi was in the queue (nothing unusual, haven't Ferrari been making this blunder time & again in a Safety Car situation).
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
What about the DNFs for both the drivers with the same car? Would you agree that the Ferraris have not demonstrated the "bulletproof" reliability that they have been famous for in earlier years?

And that McLaren now have a car that is far more reliable compared to the one that Kimi was driving last year?

As far as Kimi consistently going into the wall, as you say, I think that's a little exaggerated but to each his own - Turn 10 was a problem evejn during the practice sessions, the track also had numerous bumps that almost all the drivers complained about (at least the interviews that we saw being beamed on the track giant screens) & if you did notice, Kimi did hit a couple of them before loosing control. He was closing in on Glock so perhaps he wasn't as cautious as he should have been but, what the heck, that's F1.

Yes, he is no rookie but he hasn't been very lucky either. And neither has Massa been lucky this year, this being at least the second most recent example!
I still can't understand why Ferrari called both their drivers into the pits when the safety car was scrambled. Don't they have radio communication? If Massa & Kimi had come in 1 lap apart, they wouldn't have lost so many places.

And Anachronix, I still feel Kimi is very unlucky. How do you explain the exhaust failure in a race where he was leading (I've never seen such a problem happen before to anybody) & also being taken out by Hamilton in the pit lane incident in Montreal? If it weren't for these 2 incidents, he wouldn't be so far off the points table as he is now. I dont think Kimi's driving style is the cause for the engine failures. Massa has also had his share this season. Ferrari have a problem that they have to sort out. We'll see how McLaren fares next year due to the introduction of KERS. I bet they wouldn't have been able to copy that from Ferrari.

Krishnan
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Old 30th September 2008, 19:00   #3171
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
This year,
If Ferrari lose the constructor's trophy,it would be because of Kimi
And If Massa loses driver's title, it would be because of Ferrari.
I agree with the 1st statement, but Not the 2nd one!

Why would Ferrari come in way of Massa's championship attempt?

As per hints given by Ferrari, they would support Massa for the Title, and Kimi would be in the supporting role (only if he doesn't crash out in the next few races!).
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Old 30th September 2008, 19:20   #3172
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If Kimi finished the race, Ferrari would still be leading the WCC. That would certainly give a psycological advantage to the team.
Luca di Montezemolo is not too happy. Firstly, he's unhappy with the Singapore circuit and secondly, he expects Kimi to help Massa win the title.
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Old 30th September 2008, 19:20   #3173
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Originally Posted by akrish01 View Post
I still can't understand why Ferrari called both their drivers into the pits when the safety car was scrambled. Don't they have radio communication? If Massa & Kimi had come in 1 lap apart, they wouldn't have lost so many places.
This isn't the first time that Ferrari have had two cars in the pit lane at the same time in a safety car situation - I don't know what it is but it happens with them

You won't believe this but we were sitting there watching the support races (Aston Martin, Formula BMW & Porsche Carrera) before the main race & the SC was deployed in each one of them & we were like "Hope it doesn't happen during the F1 race" because a SC situation has time & again proved to be a disaster for Kimi in particular & for Massa sometimes as far as the pitlane is concerned. And, bingo, a SC situation out of the blue & look at the disaster in the Ferrari pits!

Not to forget that both drivers were driving simply BRILLIANTLY before all this happened.

Last edited by suman : 30th September 2008 at 19:22.
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Old 30th September 2008, 20:09   #3174
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
This isn't the first time that Ferrari have had two cars in the pit lane at the same time in a safety car situation - I don't know what it is but it happens with them
I don't think Ferrari had any choice, in fact no team does when both cars are in good track positions. If both cars come in, the max time the second car loses is the 10 seconds (or less) that it spends waiting its turn at the team's pit garage.

The alternative, having the second car come in on a separate lap, would entail that it lose a lot more time because it would've been trundling around the circuit (relative to F1 speeds) behind the safety car for an entire lap.

Ferrari's hands were tied...
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Old 30th September 2008, 21:41   #3175
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So now if hamilton finishes behind massa in all the 3 remaining races he wins the championship. But i think Massa will take the

If raikkonen finishes 3 points behind Lewis in the next race then his title chances are over.

Lewis Won last years Jap Gp. Massa however finished 6th. Hmmm.
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Old 30th September 2008, 22:51   #3176
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For good or for bad, the introduction of 2 additional street races will mean a lot more safety car situations in future.

It makes for exciting races and unpredictable results, but it proves to be a major pain in the back side for team strategists. Teams need Plan B and Plan Safety Car these days. And Ferrari have not been doing well in that department.
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Old 30th September 2008, 23:59   #3177
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All Singapore track needs is a bit more overtaking opportunities and the bumps sorted out. I loved watching the track.

As said by MaserQ, these kinda situations add some real excitement to the races. If it's all just plain start to finish procession and/or predictable, what's the fun?
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Old 1st October 2008, 00:47   #3178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
I don't think Ferrari had any choice, in fact no team does when both cars are in good track positions. If both cars come in, the max time the second car loses is the 10 seconds (or less) that it spends waiting its turn at the team's pit garage.

The alternative, having the second car come in on a separate lap, would entail that it lose a lot more time because it would've been trundling around the circuit (relative to F1 speeds) behind the safety car for an entire lap.

Ferrari's hands were tied...
Absolutely. Ferrari didn't really have an option. But Kimi lost out big time here because of the fuel rig problem. He had wait for the mechanics to reorganize after that incident.
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Old 1st October 2008, 01:01   #3179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Luca di Montezemolo is not too happy. Firstly, he's unhappy with the Singapore circuit and secondly, he expects Kimi to help Massa win the title.
Source
He is right to an extent about the track. Its the safety car which made the race exciting not the track. I think one street circuit is more than enough for a season. Also we have Hungary which is for all practical purposes is like a street race without those buildings. Ideally I would like Monaco and Singapore to alternate, but thats not going to happen.
If not for the safety car, this race also would have been another procession like Valencia. Only good things was this track had slightly better overtaking opportunities.
Also the rules for pit stops during safety car periods need to be changed. The current rule is really silly, and its because of this we are seeing lot of unnecessary actions in pitlane like Canada.
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Old 1st October 2008, 08:13   #3180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
This isn't the first time that Ferrari have had two cars in the pit lane at the same time in a safety car situation - I don't know what it is but it happens with them

Not to forget that both drivers were driving simply BRILLIANTLY before all this happened.
As someone explained, queuing the cars is the best way to save time(max you lose 10 seconds/positions accordingly) in a safety car pit scenario. If you failed to notice, McLaren queued Heikki behind Lewis. Raikkonnen probably lost more than 10 seconds because of the chaotic pit stop of Massa - I think there are separate fuel rigs for both drivers, not sure - Massa lost more time because the crew took some time to realize what happened and also the fact that Massa was parked at the far end of the pit lane waiting for someone to prise the fuel rig off.

Another thing someone wrongly mentioned was that Massa was released prematurely because Raikkonnen was in queue - while that might be a reason, the more important one was that he had to be release before Lewis, hence the pit stop manager became trigger happy.
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