Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Motor-Sports > Int'l Motorsport


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th December 2008, 15:57   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
vikram_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,380
Thanked: 936 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Can you make a rough guess of how much teams have spent on the KERS development for the 2009 Season!?

In 2008 there was a engine freeze rule declared until 2012! How much money did the teams invest on getting into the R&D of this? And its all lost when the single engine rule is now proposed and the engine freeze was called off.

I am not saying it should be unlimited budget. It should be limited budget but let the teams develop anything which can make their cars go quick and be ultra safe as now!

Then the No-Overtaking in F1 cry by Bernie & the world will be answered well by the drivers on the track.
In my opinion KERS is a good thing. Cause if any body can develop and test a fantastic system it will be the F1 fraternity. KERS is the only thing that has costed money. How does having an engine freeze cost money? The engine freeze was that you submit your engine data to the FIA at the start of the year and cannot make any changes to it during the course of the season. So what R&D are you talking about?

Earlier we used to one engine per race and then that was changed to two races per engine. You have cut down your engine budget by half. The no overtaking scene is because of a uneven playing field. You have teams like Ferrari, McLaren & Toyota who run on virtually unlimited budgets when you compare them with teams like Williams, Force India etc. The cost cutting is being done to bring all teams on a level playing field and so is the engine freeze.

I am not aware of the fact that there is no engine freeze from next year.
vikram_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 16:29   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 175
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
In my opinion KERS is a good thing. Cause if any body can develop and test a fantastic system it will be the F1 fraternity. KERS is the only thing that has costed money. How does having an engine freeze cost money? The engine freeze was that you submit your engine data to the FIA at the start of the year and cannot make any changes to it during the course of the season. So what R&D are you talking about?

I am not aware of the fact that there is no engine freeze from next year.
The engine freeze was a mandate and every engine was inspected by the FIA, however the Ferrari's BMW's and Mclarens are real clever people they tuned the engine performance and squeezed it to get more from those engines, this money was wasted in their R&D dept

KERS is a good technology but limited only to F1 cars, this technology what you see in a Toyota Prius is not coming from KERS, (If that is so Toyota would win the WDC and WCC next year), this KERS is designed only for the F1 cars, and can not be implemented in our road cars...So again money waste in R&D!!

So invariably whatever freeze you do, there is technology involved and people come out with exciting plans to manipulate their manifolds or their intake valve system.

The best thing is to go with one standard engine provider with less money involved, but that makes the whole F1 boring, and it wont be any different from A1 GP

To contradict my own statement above, if the other manufacturers start investing money like they have been and start coming out with some brilliant plans or loopholes in the engine freeze sytem, soon they will follow HONDA..
crn12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 16:55   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
vikram_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,380
Thanked: 936 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crn12 View Post
The best thing is to go with one standard engine provider with less money involved, but that makes the whole F1 boring, and it wont be any different from A1 GP
I am not in favour of the standard engine thing but A1 is bloody exciting to watch. Maybe because of the standard engine. The races & wins in A1 are much closer. Maybe F1 needs this to be exciting again.

A quote from wikipedia

Quote:
Regenerative braking utilizes the fact that an electric motor can also act as a generator. The vehicle's electric traction motor is operated as a generator during braking and its output is supplied to an electrical load. It is the transfer of energy to the load which provides the braking effect.
An early example of this system was the Energy Regeneration Brake, developed in 1967 for the Amitron. This was a completely battery powered urban concept car whose batteries were recharged by regenerative braking, thus increasing the range of the automobile.
I think this technology has great potential for hybrid and electric powered cars.

Last edited by vikram_d : 5th December 2008 at 16:58.
vikram_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 17:29   #19
BHPian
 
topedgemonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 61
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

There are rumours that Jense and Rubens have given their CVs to Hertz and Avis


I reckon Honda had a budget bigger than both the Ferrari and the McLaren.
topedgemonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 17:43   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 140 Times
Default

The fact is there is little or no overtaking in F1, the cars have outgrown most of the tracks. Its got nothing to do with Engine but all to do with uncontrolled aerodynamics & absence of incentives for mechanical grip. Look at the odd shaped ugly looking midwings & winglets which pop out of all those cars. With the changes in the Aero regulations the teams are now trying to maximise not the efficiency of their cars but maximise the disturbance to the cars following their cars so that their cars cannot be overtaken using slip stream. The entire sport is guided by these negative philosophies.

As long as Bernie & Max continue to mint their money even if it at the cost of teams sinking day is not very far away when you would hear the sinking of a pure racing team like that of Williams.

Am hoping that F1 crashes in the current avataar so that we can get a racing series which is a racing series than something like that of a F1Racing manager where the pit crew make the moves resembling the moves of a chess board
pypkmsrikanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 19:28   #21
BHPian
 
Meer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 199
Thanked: 18 Times
Angry Honda is pulling out of Formula One

Sad day for F1 - Honda is pulling out and will not even supply engines

BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula One | Global crisis ends Honda F1 era
Meer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 20:24   #22
BHPian
 
raajks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BLR
Posts: 578
Thanked: 117 Times
Default

A team's loss is not good for competition but Honda was never there as far as competition was concerned.

With this move they atleast get to keep their money, they may have to change their tagline from "We love racing" to something else.
raajks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 20:41   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 137 Times
Default

Isn't their tagline "The Power of Dreams"?
ImmortalZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 20:48   #24
BHPian
 
raajks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BLR
Posts: 578
Thanked: 117 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Isn't their tagline "The Power of Dreams"?
They change their tag line to "We love racing" when they relay Formula 1.
raajks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 22:31   #25
BHPian
 
Samir Taheer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London & Pune
Posts: 384
Thanked: 48 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crn12 View Post
The engine freeze was a mandate and every engine was inspected by the FIA, however the Ferrari's BMW's and Mclarens are real clever people they tuned the engine performance and squeezed it to get more from those engines, this money was wasted in their R&D dept

KERS is a good technology but limited only to F1 cars, this technology what you see in a Toyota Prius is not coming from KERS, (If that is so Toyota would win the WDC and WCC next year), this KERS is designed only for the F1 cars, and can not be implemented in our road cars...So again money waste in R&D!!

So invariably whatever freeze you do, there is technology involved and people come out with exciting plans to manipulate their manifolds or their intake valve system.

The best thing is to go with one standard engine provider with less money involved, but that makes the whole F1 boring, and it wont be any different from A1 GP

To contradict my own statement above, if the other manufacturers start investing money like they have been and start coming out with some brilliant plans or loopholes in the engine freeze sytem, soon they will follow HONDA..
KERS is not wasted R&D.. its all about recovering wasted energy, and the technology is already in use in road car - in electric cars the heat generated from braking is used to charge the cells. It might not be used in the same way as in F1, but its about refining something already in use.

As for Honda - they've said they will sell the team before Febuary. The employees are to expect their redundancy notices before the christmas break. The rumour is that ProDrive/Aston Martin, owned by David Richards has put in a bid. They've always wanted to enter F1, i guess this is his chance.
Samir Taheer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2008, 22:54   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,233
Thanked: 1,221 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I am not in favour of the standard engine thing but A1 is bloody exciting to watch. Maybe because of the standard engine. The races & wins in A1 are much closer. Maybe F1 needs this to be exciting again.
I am totally against this Standard stuffs being used in F1. That complete KILLS the spirit of F1.

Remember those Gas Turbine engines from Toyota, Active Suspension from Lotus and the funny wings! That was the true spirit of F1. Make anything to go fast and fight! Now F1 is all about filling money in Bernie's pockets!

There is no more F1 in Canada & US where it is the base market for Japanese manufacturers Honda & Toyota!

All historical circuits being trashed and useless circuits like Singapore & Valencia on the calendar. I personally hate the SingaporeGP being a part of F1 or for that matter any street circuit in F1.

Bernie is busy digging the grave for the sports! Watch out for more trash from the old man!
anachronix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2008, 00:47   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Tejas@perioimpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,947
Thanked: 4,765 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Now F1 is all about filling money in Bernie's pockets!
Agreed. After Bernie's expensive divorce settlement, that's all that he can think about!
Tejas@perioimpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2008, 10:18   #28
BHPian
 
Meer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 199
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I am totally against this Standard stuffs being used in F1. That complete KILLS the spirit of F1.

Remember those Gas Turbine engines from Toyota, Active Suspension from Lotus and the funny wings! That was the true spirit of F1. Make anything to go fast and fight! Now F1 is all about filling money in Bernie's pockets!

There is no more F1 in Canada & US where it is the base market for Japanese manufacturers Honda & Toyota!
Yes, standards rob the game of the surprise / competitive spirit. But as per supporters of standardisation, if you do not have standards then the game will go into hands of the large F1 houses like Ferrari/McLaren etc, because they have deep pockets to invest more and more.
Meer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2008, 10:23   #29
BHPian
 
Sowmya's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 495
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Our King Fisher owner Mallya may also about to go for bankrupt. But he has money for F1. Please expand the F!.
Sowmya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2008, 10:52   #30
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,991
Thanked: 1,419 Times
Default

This was bound to happen. I had expected teams to start pulling out, the only surprise being the first team had to be Honda. Even during the best of economic times, its always a hard-sell proposing investing millions of dollars and not be considered a top team.
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tractor pulls out a sinking Dzire from Diveagar Beach //M Street Experiences 48 22nd September 2014 14:10
Ford pulls out of WRC! jerry can Int'l Motorsport 6 25th October 2012 17:41
Hyundai Pulls Out of Japanese Market aaggoswami The International Automotive Scene 7 3rd December 2009 17:32
Hero pulls out of Daimler Commercial JV hanmust Commercial Vehicles 2 23rd April 2009 15:46
Red Bull pulls a fast one on Mclaren! Rtech Int'l Motorsport 8 11th November 2005 11:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:51.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks