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View Poll Results: Who do you think will wear the motogp 2009 crown?
Dani Pedrosa 2 2.53%
Andrea Dovizioso 0 0%
Colin Edwards 0 0%
Chris Vermeulen 0 0%
Casey Stoner 7 8.86%
Valentino Rossi 68 86.08%
James Toseland 0 0%
Sete Gibernau 0 0%
Loris Capirossi 0 0%
Nicky Hayden 2 2.53%
Jorge Lorenzo 0 0%
Any Other... 0 0%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th October 2009, 11:15   #211
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Hi JVH,

I feel that Lorenzo has always given Rossi a very tough time in many races this season. So, saying that he falls easily would not be correct, IMO. In fact, in several races this season they have exchanged positions multiple number of times. Not only has Lorenzo got beaten by Rossi over the last few laps several times but he has handed the same medicine back to the doctor a couple of times at least this season. Next season is definitely going to be very interesting, IMHO
By commenting Falls easily I did not intend to demean Lorenzo's skills. He is clearly very talented and to be honest I didn't expect him to offer such a fight till the end. The thing is he had raised the bar of the championship and I was irked more than once when he crashed and the race turned into a dud.

I hope he rectifies that part next season and hope I'm clear this time about What I was intending to write.
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Old 26th October 2009, 11:43   #212
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Congrats to the doctor for winning the world champion title yet again.

He is like wine, getting better as he gets older
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Old 26th October 2009, 12:33   #213
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Ohh! Stupid me. I'm very very sorry, JVH. I was not able to understand that you meant "falling" literally and not figuratively. But good to see that you appreciate Jorge Lorenzo's talent as well. Nice to know you.

I'll also like to point out that Rossi winning is not down to sheer talent anymore but also the weight of the Fiat sponsorship he carries with him. It is something like Santander moving around with Alonso to Ferrari. It is a whole package nowadays. To be a world champion, you don't just need talent but also weighty sponsors who back up your career moves
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Old 26th October 2009, 12:43   #214
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Originally Posted by Akadian
I'll also like to point out that Rossi winning is not down to sheer talent anymore but also the weight of the Fiat sponsorship he carries with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akadian
To be a world champion, you don't just need talent but also weighty sponsors who back up your career moves

What moves? I think he max'd out.
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Old 26th October 2009, 12:53   #215
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Dear nitrous,

I hope you know the team is called Fiat -Yamaha for which Rossi and Lorenzo were both riding this last season. Fiat and Rossi are both Italian, FYI. So, it is crystal clear whom one of the biggest stakeholders in the team would prefer as the world champ. That is precisely my point and to strengthen my argument, I even quoted from F1 the example of Alonso and Santander, both Spanish. If you can offer something substantial to counter my arguments, please do. If you simply laugh, then I find it hard to understand your meaning
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Old 26th October 2009, 12:59   #216
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Akadian : can you please help me understand the theory of Sponsorship and manufacturer? on why not could it be sheer talent? Is this the same case with Stoner and Marlboro Ducati? Repsol Honda and Nicky Hayden, both of them are world champions.
Camel and Yamaha again for Rossi too.
Since its Motogp, could you please give examples from Motogp.
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Old 26th October 2009, 13:07   #217
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Hi Sohail,

It can be on sheer talent but I'm only talking about the current scenario. And definitely, it is a bit like a chicken and egg story as well. Because, to get those big sponsors behind you something special (read talent) has to be exhibited early in the career. But when I look at Fiat-Yamaha 2009 team and see Lorenzo pitted against Rossi, it appears to me that Lorenzo was better than Rossi many times in the season. And one can not deny the delight Fiat will share in helping Rossi win the championship. That is the exact reason for my contention. Nothing else. No denying Rossi is highly talented but Lorenzo seems to be better as of today. That is all

Regards
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Old 26th October 2009, 14:01   #218
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Well true that Fiat would want a Italian rider to win, but dont forget its still a factory team having roots and management in Japan. They are situated in Italy though.

Fiat cant have a say in who they would like to have as world champion, that would be fixing the race in a way isnt it? Its up to the team to decide whom to support more, provide better equipemnt, have better bike parts (which FYI happens in the team as quoted by Lorenzo, he said the two bikes are pretty much similar but Rossis bike has some other parts which he is not aware of hence needs a different setup). If I may just use one e.g from F1, Schumi and Barichello. Ferrari chose to support Schumi more for the fact he was faster.

That is not the case here, Lorenzo was Rossi's rival all this season and arguably as fast as Rossi. FYI there actually is a physical wall between the two riders garage area and they do not share bike-setup, have separate engineers like all riders, but they DO share telemetry because it is in the interest of Yamaha as the point of MotoGP is constructirs championship, riders C'ship is something secondary to the team.

Fiat Yamaha is I`m sure glad to have to riders who can be champions, as the more they fight for the 1st place the more points the team gets.

If they just wanted Rossi to win, they can also get some other slower rider and who can be an Italian too.
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Old 26th October 2009, 14:13   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akadian
No denying Rossi is highly talented but Lorenzo seems to be better as of today.
Yeah...Yeah...Yeah!
We all watched Lorenzo's talent at the very first corner of Philip Island.

IMO, any team incl Yamaha have two riders for two needs.
Taking Yamaha for eg.
Rossi = Rider's Championship
Lorenzo = Constructor's Championship
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Old 26th October 2009, 14:34   #220
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Yeah...Yeah...Yeah!
We all watched Lorenzo's talent at the very first corner of Philip Island.
And we also watched his talent while he won at Estoril, Indianapolis, Le Mans and Motegi. I know he has lost it this year but I maintain he is a future rider championship material
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Old 26th October 2009, 14:55   #221
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@nitrous: at Philip Island Lorenzo never expected Hayden to brake so quick and rammed into him.. not entirely his mistake man. lorenzo is a budding champ.

but i am all in favor of stoner. what a ride man. after his return from illness he has been nothing but awesome. way to go stoner

the 2010 season is going to have awesome contenders. stoner, rossi, lorenzo, pedrosa and few newbies. cant wait for the season to start
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Old 26th October 2009, 15:13   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Yeah...Yeah...Yeah!
We all watched Lorenzo's talent at the very first corner of Philip Island.

IMO, any team incl Yamaha have two riders for two needs.
Taking Yamaha for eg.
Rossi = Rider's Championship
Lorenzo = Constructor's Championship
Okay lets settle this then,
Lorenzo crashed in Donington park because it was stupidly wet and the white lines offer no grip (since they are oil based paints to keep visibility high in rains).

crashed in Jerez because he was pushing too hard to win front of home crowd.

crashed at Brno under pressure from Rossi.

crashed at Phillip Island.

Rossi crashed at LeMans because he thought its 'ok' to switch to dry tyres, finished last after visiting pit lane 4 times. As good as a DNF.

Crashed at Indianapolis as Lorenzo was flying away.

But inspite of the 3 more crashes than Rossi and having far less experience, Lorenzo managed to give Rossi a run for his money right from Qatar.

Rossi is the champion and that's as simple as it can get.

But laughing because he crashed at Philip Island does not make Rossi a better rider.

I ma a big Vale fan too, but Lorenzo is someone who is has earned himself the following as well.
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Old 26th October 2009, 15:22   #223
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Rossi is the champion and that's as simple as it can get.

But laughing because he crashed at Philip Island does not make Rossi a better rider.

I ma a big Vale fan too, but Lorenzo is someone who is has earned himself the following as well.
Well said Kunal.

The Doctor, everyone knows is a living legend. But lets give credit to the young fella as well. If not for the crashes, who knows what would have been the standings?
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Old 26th October 2009, 15:29   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunal
Lorenzo managed to give Rossi a run for his money right from Qatar.
As cliched as it may sound, A championship is a championship, whether by an inch or a mile or with a race left to go.

Let me also assure you that I admire talent and Lorenzo has oodles of it to zip through the order from the back and finish 4th in the race. (I think I'm the first one to have brought this up)

Let me also remind you that Rossi made almost (if not) the same mistake at the first corner, late braking and overshooting the apex, dropping down 8 places to 9th from pole. He chose to lose places than be foolish and throw a race away when the championship was so close to hand. And gain places he did, with a fine podium finish.

Speed isn't everything to win a championship. With all his experience, Rossi knows and has what it takes to win championships.

Jorge is champ material and I hope to see him become a champion, one day.
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Old 26th October 2009, 16:08   #225
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Friends,

A stunning drive from Jorge Lorenzo sees him home in 4th after being made to start from the back of the grid in the Malaysian GP. Seems that he was not on time to take his place on the front row at the start of the race. This guy will definitely go places, I'm sure. It is only a matter of time before he is crowned the world champion
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Let me also assure you that I admire talent and Lorenzo has oodles of it to zip through the order from the back and finish 4th in the race. (I think I'm the first one to have brought this up)
Hi nitrous,

Good to know you appreciate talent. But I think I was the first one to bring up Lorenzo's 4th place finish in this thread. In fact the whole discussion started when tifosikrishna remarked that this was not Lorenzo's best this season. Anyway, good to know you

Regards
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