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Old 2nd April 2009, 19:03   #91
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Ok. What happened? Safety car is out. Everyone's behind the safety car. Trulli spins out. What should Hamilton do? Stop his car and wait for Trulli? So Hamilton goes ahead.

Pit radios Hamilton and tells him, "remember last year, when you go penalized at Spa for cutting a corner. Now you ovetook Trulli even though he spun out, so give him his place back". Hamilton gives Trulli his place back. (my own imagination on the radio talk) But Hamilton let Trulli pass and the radio communication that was withheld was to that effect.

First Trulli is penalized for overtaking with a safety car. Out he goes.

Then 3 days later and God knows what happens everything gets overturned.

Simple fact is the rules weren't clear. If a guys rolls off when the SC is in effect he loses his place. Period. You can't expect the cars behind to wait for him to get back on track.

FIA has its finger in every pie. If they did not look at the radio communications between the pits and Lewis, then why blame Mclaren.

And anyways the penalty should have been to reinstate Trulli to 3rd and Hamilton to 4th.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 19:19   #92
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Originally Posted by csentil View Post
Ok. What happened? Safety car is out. Everyone's behind the safety car. Trulli spins out. What should Hamilton do? Stop his car and wait for Trulli? So Hamilton goes ahead.

Pit radios Hamilton and tells him, "remember last year, when you go penalized at Spa for cutting a corner. Now you ovetook Trulli even though he spun out, so give him his place back". Hamilton gives Trulli his place back. (my own imagination on the radio talk) But Hamilton let Trulli pass and the radio communication that was withheld was to that effect.

First Trulli is penalized for overtaking with a safety car. Out he goes.

Then 3 days later and God knows what happens everything gets overturned.

Simple fact is the rules weren't clear. If a guys rolls off when the SC is in effect he loses his place. Period. You can't expect the cars behind to wait for him to get back on track.

FIA has its finger in every pie. If they did not look at the radio communications between the pits and Lewis, then why blame Mclaren.

And anyways the penalty should have been to reinstate Trulli to 3rd and Hamilton to 4th.
Nicely put up in brief!

But, your words would have made sense only & only if Mclaren dint take it to the FIA. When Mclaren took it to the FIA saying that Trulli overtook Lewis under SC, they are expected to give complete information.

Not a part of the information which is misleading and would benefit Mclaren.

Thought Mclaren would stop cheating & lying once Ron was out! But it looks like Whitmarsh is under a crash course from Ron & was just caught!

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The FIA has insisted that McLaren and Lewis Hamilton 'misled' the governing body during a meeting with stewards following the Australian Grand Prix.

Hamilton was stripped of his third place in Melbourne on Thursday, while Toyota's Jarno Trulli was reinstated to third place, after the FIA stated that the Italian was 'unfairly penalised' for overtaking the McLaren behind the safety car.

Both Hamilton and Trulli were summoned by the stewards after the incident last Sunday. Trulli was penalised 25s, which dropped him out of the points.

On Thursday, McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh denied the team had lied to the stewards.

However, the FIA said on Thursday afternoon that both Hamilton and team manager David Ryan had not been completely honest about what happened during the race.

"During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake," the FIA said in a statement.

"Both the driver and the team manager stated that no such instruction had been given.

"The race director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so."

The FIA added that both in radio communications and in an interview after the race, it was clear that McLaren had instructed Hamilton to let Trulli through.
Ferrari-FIA nexus tricks! Way to go for all Mclaren fans.

Last edited by anachronix : 2nd April 2009 at 19:24.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 19:40   #93
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FIA is really going mad. If Hamilton's lied and mislead the stewards, it's fair to DQ him. But, what surprises me is that the race is there for everyone to see. If Hamilton overtook Trulli under the Safety Car, why wasn't he DQed there and then?
It appears the rules for overtaking under SC are not clearly defined.It generally says "Under special circumstances" overtaking is allowed.This special circucumstances means,if the driver ahead has a problem with his car.

Trulli spun out and the rule book doesnt clarify if it was a special circumstance or not.Hamilton overtook Trulli and was told by Mclaren to surrender his position back.
So Lewis slowed down.Trulli thought Hamilton had some problem and so he overtook him

Really bizzare event and not sure whom to blame here

One thing for sure,2009 season is off to a BLAZING start
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Old 2nd April 2009, 19:55   #94
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Just to clarify.. I'm not a Mclaren fan, neither am I a Ferrari fan. I like certain drivers and believe in racing producing the results and not waiting for 4 days after the race is over to see who came first or second. F1 should probably do the winners podium in the next race for the previous race !!

Mclaren receiving it from the FIA is a known issue for some years, rightly or wrongly, and Ferrari getting the benefit of doubt is also widely accepted.

Imagine Trulli's plight. Kicked up, then down and then back up again !!

And is Hamilton so dumb that he categorically denies that any instructions were given and then goes on and says everything in an interview after the race? Was he sure that he'll not get caught because he's in Mclaren?? Or does he believe that FIA is so dumb that they will not hear about it from the media and other teams !!! That is what interests me....

Also why did Mclaren appeal if they asked Hamilton to let Trulli overtake? Why should they appeal that Trulli overtook during SC. Didn't Mclaren know that the FIA will look into the radio communications?

Either Mclaren/Hamilton were too dumb or too smart.

Strange that Vettel got jacked. It was a 50-50 accident and it can be argued that Rosberg was also wrong. However agree that he shouldn't have been driving with a damaged car.

What about Barrichello. He did his part I thought into nosing a few out. Why didn't he get hit with a penalty? If those were racing incidents the same goes for Vettel.

FIA needs to get its rules and procedures in order. How sad that Toyota didn't appeal because the precedent was that all appeals get thrown out. Then what's the point in having an appeal then.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 20:09   #95
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Also why did Mclaren appeal if they asked Hamilton to let Trulli overtake? Why should they appeal that Trulli overtook during SC. Didn't Mclaren know that the FIA will look into the radio communications?
Mclaren never appealed.FIA themselves investigated this as the TV clippings showed Trulli overtaking Hamilton under SC.

What seems to have caused the current situation is that during the hearing Hamilton\Mclaren claimed they didnt allow Trulli to pass willfully - but later during the driver's press meet Hamilton mentioned that his team instructed him to allow Trulli go ahead.

Following this,FIA got the radio conversations and as per FIA verdict,the recordings had "two explicit orders" asking Hamilton to slowdown to let Trulli pass.With this FIA decided they had been misled by Hamilton\Mclaren and hence they decided to disqualify Hamilton.

Last edited by jraj : 2nd April 2009 at 20:10.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 20:17   #96
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
FIA would have given them WDC & WCC for third rate cheating in a million buck sport like this!

Get over the Ferrari-FIA thing! Mclaren & Hamilton have cheated and aptly punished! They are not angels.
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Nicely put up in brief!

But, your words would have made sense only & only if Mclaren dint take it to the FIA. When Mclaren took it to the FIA saying that Trulli overtook Lewis under SC, they are expected to give complete information.

Not a part of the information which is misleading and would benefit Mclaren.

Thought Mclaren would stop cheating & lying once Ron was out! But it looks like Whitmarsh is under a crash course from Ron & was just caught!

EDIT


Ferrari-FIA nexus tricks! Way to go for all Mclaren fans.
The discussion here has been about the incident and the FIA's handling thereof. The FIA's has displayed major inconsistency in the way such incidents have been dealt with previously, and even in this instance the entire process is a bleeding mess. Thus everyone of us here are bringing to notice the things that seem odd in the current situation and the way its being handled by the FIA.
Unfortunately, more than any McLaren fans going on about any nexus and stuff, it surely looks like you're out to desperately promote your, some sort of a 'I hate Mclaren' agenda to fullest. It's a sad and unnecessary way create unpleasantness.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 20:24   #97
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Mclaren never appealed.FIA themselves investigated this as the TV clippings showed Trulli overtaking Hamilton under SC.
You got that right. Mclaren did not appeal as FIA already had an investigation in place and Mclaren opened its mouth and said that Lewis would get 3rd place if the investigation found out that Trulli had overtaken.

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What seems to have caused the current situation is that during the hearing Hamilton\Mclaren claimed they didnt allow Trulli to pass willfully - but later during the driver's press meet Hamilton mentioned that his team instructed him to allow Trulli go ahead.
That's the whole point. Why deny first and then acknowledge it. Is Hamilton dumb?

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Originally Posted by jraj View Post
Following this,FIA got the radio conversations and as per FIA verdict,the recordings had "two explicit orders" asking Hamilton to slowdown to let Trulli pass.With this FIA decided they had been misled by Hamilton\Mclaren and hence they decided to disqualify Hamilton.
So was it team orders from Mclaren to lie to FIA and then Hamilton's conscience taking over?
Were Mclaren being overcautious that they shouldn't get penalised for 'overtaking' Trulli even though he had spun out?

Anyways... all these controveries are part of F1 now. The stewards and the FIA guys are also out to prove that they can also be as exciting as the race
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Old 2nd April 2009, 20:35   #98
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Originally Posted by csentil View Post
Just to clarify.. I'm not a Mclaren fan, neither am I a Ferrari fan. I like certain drivers and believe in racing producing the results and not waiting for 4 days after the race is over to see who came first or second. F1 should probably do the winners podium in the next race for the previous race !!

Mclaren receiving it from the FIA is a known issue for some years, rightly or wrongly, and Ferrari getting the benefit of doubt is also widely accepted.

Imagine Trulli's plight. Kicked up, then down and then back up again !!

And is Hamilton so dumb that he categorically denies that any instructions were given and then goes on and says everything in an interview after the race? Was he sure that he'll not get caught because he's in Mclaren?? Or does he believe that FIA is so dumb that they will not hear about it from the media and other teams !!! That is what interests me....

Also why did Mclaren appeal if they asked Hamilton to let Trulli overtake? Why should they appeal that Trulli overtook during SC. Didn't Mclaren know that the FIA will look into the radio communications?

Either Mclaren/Hamilton were too dumb or too smart.

Strange that Vettel got jacked. It was a 50-50 accident and it can be argued that Rosberg was also wrong. However agree that he shouldn't have been driving with a damaged car.

What about Barrichello. He did his part I thought into nosing a few out. Why didn't he get hit with a penalty? If those were racing incidents the same goes for Vettel.

FIA needs to get its rules and procedures in order. How sad that Toyota didn't appeal because the precedent was that all appeals get thrown out. Then what's the point in having an appeal then.
+1 to that.
If we go through the details of everything that FIA's been saying now, it just gets stranger and stranger.

Firstly, the entire car/pit radio transmission is with the FIA throughout. But they didn't go through it till after having already pronounced a verdict. That implies that the first decision was based entirely on driver statements. Now, when has this ever been the case before?

It's called an FIA 'investigation' but seems like they just carried out an interrogation and gave a verdict! Then only later they realised that they needed to investigate and found the full radio communication, and blamed it on McLaren for concealing it. It's a little ridiculous.

What about McLaren's claim that they tried to contact Whiting for clarification, did they verify that?

I'm not saying here that McLaren are innocent, it's just that this investigation was a farce, and due to this gross (and deliberate?) mishandling of the incident, McLaren's being blamed (and punished) for a lot more than what was their due.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 20:40   #99
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Nice to see all the Mclaren fans coming out & supporting their team's cheating activities once again!

Lot of possibilities thrown here to prove Mclaren to be an Angel!

It was Mclaren who wanted a clarification on Trulli's pass on Hamilton from the stewards since it was behind the SC!

I just love the look on his face after being caught AGAIN!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 20:48   #100
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Draconian/confusing rules and lame idiotic method of implementation.
Just when we thought F1 was turning out to something good.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 21:12   #101
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If Hamilton and Mclaren lied, they totally deserve the penalty. But i do belive Rubens deserves a penalty, for his bumper cars madness.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 22:17   #102
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Woohooo
Just guessing how many posts long this thread would have gone if the name of the driver who gave misleading info had started with M and ended with r :-)
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Old 2nd April 2009, 22:29   #103
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So sad that Mclaren & Hamilton are back to their antics in the 1st race of the season itself.....!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 22:32   #104
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If Hamilton and Mclaren lied, they totally deserve the penalty. But i do belive Rubens deserves a penalty, for his bumper cars madness.
Come on, Rubens is doing DC's job! Did the FIA dare to punish him? I bet he would have run into the race control room with his car if they did .
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Old 3rd April 2009, 00:17   #105
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Ferrari-FIA nexus tricks! Way to go for all Mclaren fans.
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Nice to see all the Mclaren fans coming out & supporting their team's cheating activities once again!
I strongly object to these statements. I take offence at these statements. I'm a McLaren fan and I've supported Lewis's penalty if the FIA has found him guilty. Now I don't know what you have against McLaren and McLaren fans, but, there's no need to go over the top.

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Thought Mclaren would stop cheating & lying once Ron was out. But it looks like Whitmarsh is under a crash course from Ron & was just caught!
That's why he got caught. Ron was a novice cheater. Martin should have gone to the professionals.
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