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Old 29th April 2009, 22:23   #76
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Did this verdict really surprise you?
When they got away with what they did in 2007,this is nothing
Ah! That was Hamilton fever in 2007 and now its Mercedes fever threatening to quit F1 and Mclaren team are let go easily.

The 3 race ban should have been implemented.

Now, does FIA stand for Ferrari International blah blah... or something to do with Mclaren & Cheating International blah... !?

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Old 29th April 2009, 23:20   #77
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The 3 race ban should have been implemented.
And what happens after that? Mercedes might quit, McLaren (in which Mercedes has a 40% stake) might disintegrate altogether, Brawn and Force India will suffer too. That would be destruction.
And anyway you look at it, this crime is not all that serious. Ralf Schumacher said that this was certainly not the first instance of lying by a team to the stewards. How many teams penalised till date?
A suspended ban will ensure that such a thing won't happen again and that's the main aim.
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Old 30th April 2009, 05:54   #78
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And what happens after that? Mercedes might quit, McLaren (in which Mercedes has a 40% stake) might disintegrate altogether, Brawn and Force India will suffer too. That would be destruction.
And anyway you look at it, this crime is not all that serious. Ralf Schumacher said that this was certainly not the first instance of lying by a team to the stewards. How many teams penalised till date?
A suspended ban will ensure that such a thing won't happen again and that's the main aim.
Do you still think that Mercedes would have quit F1 if Mclaren was banned for 3 races? I dont think so.

Mercedes is still with Mclaren which was caught spying and punished in 2007, do you think they would just quit F1 for a 3 race ban on the same team which was caught again cheating & lieing?
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Old 30th April 2009, 06:27   #79
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Do you still think that Mercedes would have quit F1 if Mclaren was banned for 3 races? I dont think so.

Mercedes is still with Mclaren which was caught spying and punished in 2007, do you think they would just quit F1 for a 3 race ban on the same team which was caught again cheating & lieing?
In all probablility, yes. Because a three race ban is pretty unreasonable punishment for a not so serious crime. 2007 was a different time and the global economy was strong. Things are different now and people are questioning a company's involvement in an expensive sport when factories are being shut and workers are being laid off.
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Old 30th April 2009, 06:49   #80
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A 3 race ban would have looked unreasonable if it was the first time Mclaren was caught for lieing or cheating. But is it the first time really?

It would have more than reasonable to make them sit in the garage for 3 races and then the team would dare to even think about cheating the next time.

Mercedes's threat over quitting F1 if Mclaren was punished is nothing but an ugly PJ.

If every team starts cheating like Mclaren and threat to quit if they are punished, then F1 will be no more a sport! It will be F1 Cars Sporting Entertainment. Bernie will become Vince McMahon.
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Old 30th April 2009, 07:40   #81
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A 3 race ban would have looked unreasonable if it was the first time Mclaren was caught for lieing or cheating. But is it the first time really?
Yes. Whatever lying happened was after the race. It happened because the FIA didn't have a backup official to cover Whiting when the action was happening on the track. And when did McLaren "lie" before this?
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It would have more than reasonable to make them sit in the garage for 3 races and then the team would dare to even think about cheating the next time.
Disqualified from a race which the finished strongly and a suspended 3 race ban is enough.
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Mercedes's threat over quitting F1 if Mclaren was punished is nothing but an ugly PJ.
Like the breakaway racing series Ferrari has been threatening to launch since ages?
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If every team starts cheating like Mclaren and threat to quit if they are punished, then F1 will be no more a sport! It will be F1 Cars Sporting Entertainment. Bernie will become Vince McMahon.
It's no longer about threats, whether it's McLaren or Mercedes. If they had to threaten the FIA, they could have done it in 2007 and 2008 too. This time it's different. If Mercedes goes, the McLaren group will collapse.
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Old 30th April 2009, 07:55   #82
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They got a HUGE fine and lost all their constructors points before, and now this!! Looks like the only thing McLaren learns is from the Ferrari books lol
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Old 30th April 2009, 08:26   #83
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Yes. Whatever lying happened was after the race. It happened because the FIA didn't have a backup official to cover Whiting when the action was happening on the track.
Its basically Mclaren & Team taking advantage of Whiting who was busy with Vettel & Kubica incident. Just because a team knows that the governing authority is busy with some other decision making, it cant play around it.

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And when did McLaren "lie" before this?
Come on Aditya, your question got a big smile on my face. I will ask you a question back... When did Mclaren did never "lie" before? Even with the Spy Scandal, the authentic "Integrity" talks of Mr. Ron Dennis. *sigh*


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Disqualified from a race which the finished strongly and a suspended 3 race ban is enough.
A team finishing strongly after cheating and lieing deserves to be there in sport. Great! But, there is no logic.

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It's no longer about threats, whether it's McLaren or Mercedes. If they had to threaten the FIA, they could have done it in 2007 and 2008 too. This time it's different. If Mercedes goes, the McLaren group will collapse.
Its threat and the wonder boy that got Mclaren out of the Spy Scandal easily. Otherwise, look at Toyota in WRC. Breach of rules means they are punished. Thats how Mclaren should have been treated. They should have been banned for atleast 2 years for stealing the 750 Page technical spec of the Ferrari F1 car.
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Old 30th April 2009, 08:38   #84
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anachronix,
I have to disagree here with you.

I want to see Mclaren racing.Come to think of it,racing weekends wont be the same when you dont see the Silver cars along side the Red ones.

But that said,I atleast hope people who equated the "F" in FIA to Ferrari,rather keep quiet considering how Vodafone Mclaren Mercedez have got away,scotch free if I may say so,after what they have done not just now but also in 2007.
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Old 30th April 2009, 10:29   #85
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Trulli was unfairly penalized 25 seconds because McLaren chose to hide the fact that Hamilton allowed Trulli to pass him after the Toyota had run off the road - in essense making it look like Trulli passed Hamilton during a safety car period. One would've thought that McLaren learnt something about getting caught in 2007.

McLaren chose to not contest the WMSC (how could they ?), "restructured" the team, & apologized unconditionally for their actions. I thought they handled it pretty well & wasn't surprised when they got the suspended sentence - I really did think the punishment fit the crime, especially considering McLaren's remorse.

F1 has survived loss of major manufacturers before, & will continue to survive even if McLaren or even Ferrari (God forbid !) exit the sport. Honda left & from its ashes has risen Brawn, teams will evolve, I don't think F1 is about any particular team or manufacturer - what would be at jeopardy however is what F1 is now. And maybe change wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing...

*rant* The new regulations to promote overtaking are fine, KERS as a technology for the future too is acceptable, but the 'push to pass' buttons (KERS & movable-front-winglets) are cheap gimmicks borrowed from A1GP. And I wish those who run the sport had stepped in earlier & ruled on the legality of the double-triple-diffusers (instead of waiting for almost a quarter of the season to go by) so that everybody was on the same page, especially from the regulations perspective *rant*
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Old 30th April 2009, 11:05   #86
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Originally Posted by jraj View Post
anachronix,
I have to disagree here with you.

I want to see Mclaren racing.Come to think of it,racing weekends wont be the same when you dont see the Silver cars along side the Red ones.

But that said,I atleast hope people who equated the "F" in FIA to Ferrari,rather keep quiet considering how Vodafone Mclaren Mercedez have got away,scotch free if I may say so,after what they have done not just now but also in 2007.
I agree that the silver cars would be greatly missed. But when this is like an advantage for them to cheat & lie, then I prefer racing without the silver cars.
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Old 30th April 2009, 11:42   #87
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I agree FIA went very lightly on Mclaren, as a deterrent measure they should have given a ban for next 2 races atleast.
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Old 30th April 2009, 12:02   #88
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I agree FIA went very lightly on Mclaren, as a deterrent measure they should have given a ban for next 2 races atleast.
+1 to that.

I remember Honda getting 2 race ban a couple of year back when they had hidden the fact that the weight of their cars was a few kilos less than the stipulated figure.

McLaren should have been penalised more than just 2 race ban.
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Old 30th April 2009, 17:42   #89
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Its basically Mclaren & Team taking advantage of Whiting who was busy with Vettel & Kubica incident. Just because a team knows that the governing authority is busy with some other decision making, it cant play around it.
That Whiting was not available to answer McLaren's call, is not their fault. That they mislead the stewards after the race by lieing, is unethical and for that, they got punished. According to someone who was racing till recently, lieing is not new to this sport. So why target McLaren only?
Honda's car were illegal. That's a serious crime. McLaren's cars were not.
In the current season, what took the FIA so long to decide on the legality of the diffuser? If McLaren could arm-twist the FIA with threats (as many here believe), they could have easily got the diffuser declared illegal. Then what would happen to Brawn and the others using it? Ban them all for using heavily illegal cars?

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Come on Aditya, your question got a big smile on my face. I will ask you a question back... When did Mclaren did never "lie" before? Even with the Spy Scandal, the authentic "Integrity" talks of Mr. Ron Dennis. *sigh*
Max or Ron. No prizes for guessing who I'd believe.

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A team finishing strongly after cheating and lieing deserves to be there in sport. Great! But, there is no logic.
Wrong! Mclaren, even if they finished 4th which is pretty good, was not by cheating or lieing. All the lieing took place only after the race.

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Its threat and the wonder boy that got Mclaren out of the Spy Scandal easily. Otherwise, look at Toyota in WRC. Breach of rules means they are punished. Thats how Mclaren should have been treated. They should have been banned for atleast 2 years for stealing the 750 Page technical spec of the Ferrari F1 car.
Renault too were found guilty of possessing tech data of McLaren. Why was only McLaren penalised? Why was Renault let off with no penalty at all? Why the double standards? Seems more like Max's agenda.
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Old 30th April 2009, 17:58   #90
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Guys i truely belive Mclaren shouldnt have been stripped off their points or have been given a race ban, but i dont agree with the fact thats its only a suspended ban. I think they should really have got a Suspended sentence along the lines of 'Total Disqualification', if it happened again. This would make sure they dont lie/cheat again.

Its like Eddie Jordan and DC said during one their chats - All the teams on the grid cheat in someway, Mclaren were unlucky to get caught. If you look at the bigger picture, someone quit, someone got fired and no one really got affected by it. Trulli got his position back too.

We all know Mclaren or Mercedes, would never have quit the sport (Unless they got banned form the whole season). That was only a threat against the FIA. But once again i truely belive that F1 without the Ferrari, Mclaren battles wouldnt be as epic.
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