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Old 30th April 2009, 17:59   #91
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Does Mercedes need McLaren anymore? They can cozy up with Brawn and call the team Brawn Mercedes (officially)

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Do you still think that Mercedes would have quit F1 if Mclaren was banned for 3 races? I dont think so.
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In all probablility, yes. Because a three race ban is pretty unreasonable punishment for a not so serious crime.
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Old 30th April 2009, 18:41   #92
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Does Mercedes need McLaren anymore? They can cozy up with Brawn and call the team Brawn Mercedes (officially)
They can very well do that. The problem lies in the stock holding of McLaren. With a 40% stake, Daimler AG is the largest stock holder. 30% is owned a company from Bahrain, 15% is with Ron Dennis and the remaining 15% with Mansour Ojjeh (TAG).
That's the reason Merc is worried about their image. Merc's quitting McLaren will mean they will have to sell their shares cheap and McLaren (if they survive) will be weakened big time.
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Old 30th April 2009, 20:15   #93
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I agree that the silver cars would be greatly missed. But when this is like an advantage for them to cheat & lie, then I prefer racing without the silver cars.
The silver cars are'nt posing any threat to the championship leader, are they ?

I believe Heikki should be allowed to race !
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Old 1st May 2009, 00:30   #94
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They got a HUGE fine and lost all their constructors points before, and now this!! Looks like the only thing McLaren learns is from the Ferrari books lol
Im sure you are %100 right there,most of the teams are at it,and learnt everything and learnt all they know from Ferrari. Whos been at it for years
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Old 1st May 2009, 10:04   #95
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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
That Whiting was not available to answer McLaren's call, is not their fault. That they mislead the stewards after the race by lieing, is unethical and for that, they got punished. According to someone who was racing till recently, lieing is not new to this sport. So why target McLaren only?
Lieing is not new to this sport. So... Does it mean you hold support to any one who can lie in this sport or any sport and then release an awful public apology?

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Honda's car were illegal. That's a serious crime. McLaren's cars were not.
In the current season, what took the FIA so long to decide on the legality of the diffuser? If McLaren could arm-twist the FIA with threats (as many here believe), they could have easily got the diffuser declared illegal. Then what would happen to Brawn and the others using it? Ban them all for using heavily illegal cars?
Have you noticed the Mclaren from the Aussie GP (Pic Attached). They were running the prototype of the Double Diffuser with the top deck covered.

When it was declared legal, it was Mclaren & Renault who were runnning this prototype in China. And the Mclaren was flying.

Renault was against the DD in the court of appeal and presented its case even though they had the DD ready to be run in China. But Mclaren were silent spectator in the court and thats integrity in Mclaren for you.

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Max or Ron. No prizes for guessing who I'd believe.
Both are in same league and they are running head to head! And I dont need a prize for guessing whom you would beleive of this two!

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Wrong! Mclaren, even if they finished 4th which is pretty good, was not by cheating or lieing. All the lieing took place only after the race.
Does it still justify their "lieing"?!

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Renault too were found guilty of possessing tech data of McLaren. Why was only McLaren penalised? Why was Renault let off with no penalty at all? Why the double standards? Seems more like Max's agenda.
If it was Max's agenda, Mclaren would be sitting in garage only to sign autographs and not race for atleast 2 years. I mean they would have been banned. Its MIA & Bernie running the sport, so they were let go with a cash penalty & constructor points.
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Old 1st May 2009, 14:13   #96
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Lieing is not new to this sport. So... Does it mean you hold support to any one who can lie in this sport or any sport and then release an awful public apology?
I mean they are being unfairly targeted.

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Have you noticed the Mclaren from the Aussie GP (Pic Attached). They were running the prototype of the Double Diffuser with the top deck covered.

When it was declared legal, it was Mclaren & Renault who were runnning this prototype in China. And the Mclaren was flying.

Renault was against the DD in the court of appeal and presented its case even though they had the DD ready to be run in China. But Mclaren were silent spectator in the court and thats integrity in Mclaren for you.
McLaren are out there to win and and at the moment they are nowhere. If they were really so desperate and they had the necessary influence on the FIA, they could have done anything.

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Does it still justify their "lieing"?!
They still didn't cheat or lie before the race was finished. About lieing later, I've already said it's unethical.

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If it was Max's agenda, Mclaren would be sitting in garage only to sign autographs and not race for atleast 2 years. I mean they would have been banned. Its MIA & Bernie running the sport, so they were let go with a cash penalty & constructor points.
Thanks for the reply, but, it doesn't any of answer my questions. Nothing an no one in this world justify the FIA's lack of action against Renault when you consider what they did to McLaren.
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Old 1st May 2009, 19:07   #97
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I mean they are being unfairly targeted.
So FIA or the other teams should turn a blind eye just to show that Mclaren is not targeted unfairly when they cheat & lie?

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McLaren are out there to win and and at the moment they are nowhere. If they were really so desperate and they had the necessary influence on the FIA, they could have done anything.
The DD was declared legal right? Is that not enough for Mclaren which struggled to get into Q3 in Aussie has chance to fight in 5th & 6th position in China & Bahrain!

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They still didn't cheat or lie before the race was finished. About lieing later, I've already said it's unethical.
Yeah Yeah! Everyone is allowed to cheat & lie in F1 if they finish a race strongly.

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Thanks for the reply, but, it doesn't any of answer my questions. Nothing an no one in this world justify the FIA's lack of action against Renault when you consider what they did to McLaren.
First, Mclaren should be aptly punished for cheating & spying Ferrari, which is a minimum 3 years ban. They were let off easily, that bothers me more.
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Old 1st May 2009, 21:40   #98
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So FIA or the other teams should turn a blind eye just to show that Mclaren is not targeted unfairly when they cheat & lie?
Nopes. They should punish everyone equally. Why has no one been punished till now.
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The DD was declared legal right? Is that not enough for Mclaren which struggled to get into Q3 in Aussie has chance to fight in 5th & 6th position in China & Bahrain!
Yes, but not enough to win.
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Yeah Yeah! Everyone is allowed to cheat & lie in F1 if they finish a race strongly.
You are missing the point completely. Read your own post. You said that McLaren had used lieing and cheating to finish strongly which was untrue. That's what the debate was about. Even if they didn't lie after the race, Hamilton would finish in 4th.
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First, Mclaren should be aptly punished for cheating & spying Ferrari, which is a minimum 3 years ban. They were let off easily, that bothers me more.
Totally biased and unreasonable comment. They were punished way too harshly when you consider the fact that Renault was let off without any punishment by the same council for the same offence.
Nothing, but anti McLaren propoganda. No substance.
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Old 1st May 2009, 22:34   #99
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Nopes. They should punish everyone equally. Why has no one been punished till now.
Any specific cases you would like to share? I have a very weak memory recollecting about a team which showed misleading evidences to FIA for gaining position!

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Yes, but not enough to win.
Then its the drivers to blame. Hamilton's (1:34.196) qualifying times in Bahrain were very close to Button (1:34.044) who were on similar fuel loads. The Mclaren is not slow, but the driver & team couldnt capitalise on the race. Thats their inability.

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You are missing the point completely. Read your own post. You said that McLaren had used lieing and cheating to finish strongly which was untrue. That's what the debate was about. Even if they didn't lie after the race, Hamilton would finish in 4th.
I am pasting it here again for you read clearly.

Yeah Yeah! Everyone is allowed to cheat & lie in F1 if they finish a race strongly.

I have said Mclaren have finished the race in a strong position. It was 4th, it was a very good position for the slow Mclaren in Aussie. Does it mean they can lie and try to gain a podium finish, just because they got too greedy and had a chance to exploit a situation?

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Totally biased and unreasonable comment. They were punished way too harshly when you consider the fact that Renault was let off without any punishment by the same council for the same offence.
Nothing, but anti McLaren propoganda. No substance.
I am biased as long as a cheating & lieing team gets away all the time. Anti-Mclaren... Yeah Yeah
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Old 1st May 2009, 22:40   #100
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The debate continues..... Take a break guys!
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Old 1st May 2009, 23:08   #101
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Ahem!
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
A team finishing strongly after cheating and lieing deserves to be there in sport. Great! But, there is no logic.
Like I said, nothing but anti-McLaren propoganda. No substance.
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Old 2nd May 2009, 11:18   #102
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The FIA should accept McLaren’s apology for two reasons.

First, because it’s the right thing to do.
And second, because after an exciting start to the 2009 championship F1 is finally back in the headlines for the right reasons. A disproportionate penalty against McLaren would be seen as a vindictive act, and further evidence that not all the teams are treated equally.

Consistency rarely seems to figure in FIA decision-making. Whether the matter at hand is driving tactics, technology or politics, the FIA often treats two apparently similar examples very differently - inevitably giving rise to all sorts of unsavoury speculation about what its motives are. F1 does not need any more of this.

As with the ’spying’ scandal in 2007, it’s laughable to claim that McLaren are the first people to have transgressed in this manner - or are even the first ones to have lied and got caught.

Ferrari’s insistence that Michael Schumacher’s infamous Rascasse manoeuvre at Monaco in 2006 was anything other than an attempt to delay his rivals in qualifying was patently false - yet they went before the stewards and argued against him being penalised. He was thrown to the back of the grid.

And as for McLaren this is their response tagged as an “unreserved apology” (autosport.com - F1 News: McLaren sends written apology to FIA)

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McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh has written to the FIA to apologise for his team's behaviour in the lying scandal.

Ahead of next week's FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing where McLaren will have to answer disrepute charges that it lied to stewards, and procured driver Lewis Hamilton to do so too, Whitmarsh is understood to have offered an 'unreserved apology' for what happened.

Whitmarsh is quoted as saying by news agency Reuters: "We are cooperating with the FIA, I have written to (President) Max (Mosley) but obviously before the 29th I can't say anything about it.

"It's a letter to them. Certainly, there's been no leak about it from us and I can't comment on it."

McLaren has been pushing hard to ensure it has done all it can prior to the WMSC hearing to show it has responded to the events of the Australian and Malaysian Grands Prix.

As well as dismissing sporting director Dave Ryan, who misled the stewards, the team and Hamilton have apologised in public for the events that took place. Whitmarsh also offered his resignation to McLaren's shareholders after the Malaysian GP, but this was rejected.

Furthermore, former McLaren boss Ron Dennis has stepped away completely from the F1 team - in a move that has been motivated to show how the team is embracing a new culture.

Whitmarsh said at the Chinese Grand Prix that it was important his team started a new era of cooperation with the FIA - with Dennis and Mosley having not enjoyed the best of relationships in the past.

"Well, I think anyone who has looked at the relationship between McLaren and the FIA over the last few years would have to conclude that it would be healthier for all of us to have a more positive, constructive relationship than perhaps we have had in the past," he said.
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Old 2nd May 2009, 17:37   #103
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I think this is going too far as far as Mclaren are considered.They have apologised and the key personnel has been sent home.
I think LH should be left to concentrate on his driving.
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Old 2nd May 2009, 20:23   #104
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Ahem!

Like I said, nothing but anti-McLaren propoganda. No substance.
Well! Here is some substance for you. Mclaren has every right to lie and its something normal in the sport. Since Ralf Schumacher who was in F1 for over a decade has even said so.

Long live the sport with some substance!
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Old 2nd May 2009, 20:52   #105
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Look, it's not a good thing to lie and no one should be proud of it. Many teams (maybe all) have done it. It's just that McLaren got caught due to their inconsistent replies at different times. Endlessly harping about just one team's illegal activities because of personal hatred is not right.
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