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Old 12th June 2009, 23:29   #61
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All ten teams included but five are provisional - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

Update on the budget battle. In essence, Mclaren, Brawn, Renault, Toyota and BMW are conditionally in, the condition being that they accept the FIA regs by next week. Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso are unconditionally in since they have a contract that obliges them to race till 2012. These three teams however say that the FIA cannot force them to compete and refuse to enter unless the FIA and FOTA reach an agreement. Williams and Force India are in no matter what. And we're welcoming Manor GP, Campos GP and USF1 for 2010

P.S. How come nobody on this forum cares about F1? Most motorsport forums have been buzzing all day about the developments.
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Old 13th June 2009, 06:19   #62
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Imagine the breakaway series
Unrestricted turbos ,revs ,aero et al.
Classic circuits like silverstone , san marino , nurburgring nordschliefe , A1 Ring etc ( see you dubai,turkey,malaysia etc)
Massa Alonso & co are already comitted to it so no shortage of top class drivers .
I hope Force India and Williams regret and repent their decession to stay with FIA and form another GP2 !
I am looking forward to a "No holds barred " motorsport series rather than FIA's future budgted and restricted F1 .

Also welcome the new entrants:
USF1 ,Campos and Manor racing . Hope they have competetive cars from day one .
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Old 13th June 2009, 10:04   #63
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A "No Holds Barred" series... Ah I wish it happens and here is some more information!

Quote:
Carmakers want F1 governance change

The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA) has made a dramatic intervention in the dispute about Formula 1’s future – calling for a major overhaul of the way the sport is run and raising the spectre of a manufacturer-led breakaway if it does not happen.

On the day that the FIA published the 2010 entry list – provoking a hostile reaction from Ferrari and a renewed statement of intent from the Formula One Teams’ Association – the ACEA’s board met in Brussels to discuss the situation.

The organisation, whose members include all the carmakers involved in F1, said the way the sport is currently administered musty not go on.
It issued a statement saying: “Today, the members of the Board of the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association discussed the current situation prevailing in Formula 1, and have concluded that the current governance system cannot continue.

“ACEA has come to the conclusion that the FIA needs a modernised and transparent governance system and processes, including the revision of its constitution, to ensure the voice of its members, worldwide motorsport competitors and motorists are properly reflected.”

To that end, the ACEA backed FOTA’s demand for F1’s rule-making process to be clarified and enshrined in a new Concorde Agreement – one of the key conditions the members of the teams’ alliance attached to their 2010 entries, which resulted in their being declared provisional by the FIA.
The manufacturers’ body also indicated that it is unhappy with the current distribution of F1’s commercial revenues and wants the teams to receive a greater share.

“The ACEA members support the activities and objectives of the Formula One Teams’ Association to establish stable governance, clear and transparent rules which are common to all competitors to achieve cost reductions including a proper attribution of revenues to the F1 teams, in order to deliver a sustainable attractive sport for the worldwide public,” it said.

The ACEA ended its statement with a thinly veiled warning that it would explore the possibility of forming its own breakaway series if its demands for regulatory reform were not heeded.

“Unless these objectives are met, the BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Toyota along with the other teams are determined to find an alternative way to practise this sport in a manner which provides clarity, certainty of rules and administration, and a fair allocation of revenues to the competing teams,” it said.

The Brussels-based ACEA was founded in 1991 and represents the interests of the 15 European car, truck and bus manufacturers at EU level.
Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn currently serves as president of its Board of Directors.

Earlier this week Ghosn told the French National Assembly that it was time for the teams to “take back control” of F1 and criticised the fact that 50% of the sport’s revenues go to the commercial rights holder rather than the teams.

“Today we pay to be in Formula 1; that is not normal,” Ghosn said. “The middle men have made enough money.

“We want to take back control of Formula 1.”

SOURCE: ferrariscuderia.net
And Ghosn is someone who has the abilities to make this breakaway series a reality

@McLaren Rulez, I beleive most folks here are just too frustrated by the way Mad Max & B***h Bernie are taking their favorite F1 sport into a crisis!
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Old 13th June 2009, 15:51   #64
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For the good of the F1 sport... Please sign

pitpass - the latest, hottest F1, GP2, GP2 Asia & A1GP news
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Old 13th June 2009, 17:08   #65
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Ferrari and red bull teams had earlier insisted that FIA need not put their names in the list. But FIA did.

Here is an article :
Ferrari and Red Bull teams reject their 2010 F1 entry listing - Worldcarfans

Article :
Quote:
The fallout of the FIA's newly published 2010 entry list began without delay on Friday.

Williams said it was "pleased" to receive an unconditional entry, but for Ferrari and the two Red Bull teams, the reaction was starkly different.

Ferrari said it has been named despite its "previous written notice to the FIA not to do so", as the two sides no doubt now prepare to challenge the other's interpretation of a prior agreement.

Red Bull and Toro Rosso each issued nearly identical statements, both rejecting their unconditional entries and pledging their ongoing commitment to FOTA and "all its principles".

At the same time, a FOTA letter was dispatched to the World Motor Sport Council, seeking its assistance in resolving the conflict.

David Richards expressed his disappointment that Prodrive was left off the entry list, as he believes his outfit has the necessary "resources and set-up".

"We will wait to see how things develop in the next week, up to the 19 June deadline set by the FIA and we remain prepared and ready to implement our plans should the circumstances allow," a statement added.

A similar statement issued by Team Lotus read: "We understand that in the event that any of the teams listed do not agree the terms imposed by the FIA, we are short-listed to fill any spots which become available."

Much of the F1 world was surprised to see 'Manor Grand Prix' on the list, and it emerges that the outfit is a collaboration between the British F3 and Formula Renault outfit Manor Motorsport, and Nick Wirth.

Wirth is a former Benetton technical chief, who ran the Simtek team with Max Mosley's involvement in the 90s. Today his Wirth Research facility builds racing simulators.

It also emerged that Dallara will build the cars for the new Campos team, which will be based in Madrid.

In total, 15 entries from potential new teams were received and processed by the FIA.
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Old 13th June 2009, 17:38   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRf1 View Post
USF1 ,Campos and Manor racing . Hope they have competetive cars from day one .
Haha no way man! The three will only start development now and they need to focus on stuff like finding drivers. But above all, USF1 is gonna be a joke. They want two American drivers and thus far only Scott Speed has ever participated in a race. Imagine, the minnows of the grid with the least experienced drivers (and consequentially the worst car development abilities). Its a stupid American sponsorship exercise and I'll bet they're gonna be the new Super Aguris.
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Old 16th June 2009, 16:42   #67
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So what does everyone think will happen on friday when the final entry list is published? Will the FIA accede to FOTA's demands? Will the conditionally entered teams quit or sign up unconditionally? Will Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso take the FIA to court? Nervous times given that F1 might actually be a casualty of this fight.
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Old 16th June 2009, 19:34   #68
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As usual . There would be a compromise . I dont think Ferrari and co from FOTA would bow down after putting so much at stake . FIA might make exceptions . Bernie will go laughing all the way to the bank .
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Old 16th June 2009, 21:31   #69
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Full FIA statement on FOTA dispute - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

FIA statement on the whole dispute so far. A great recap although one-sided
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Old 17th June 2009, 05:34   #70
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Default FIA says talks stalled- Reuters

LONDON: Formula One moved closer to the edge on Tuesday when the governing body said crisis talks with teams had broken down and next year's controversial rules remained unchanged.

Financial experts from the teams association (FOTA) and International Automobile Federation (FIA) had met on Monday to try and overcome a standoff over a budget cap that threatens to tear the sport apart.

"Unfortunately, the FOTA representatives announced that they had no mandate to discuss the FIA's 2010 financial regulations. Indeed, they were not prepared to discuss regulation at all," the FIA said in a statement.

"As a result, the meeting could not achieve its purpose of comparing the FIA's rules with the FOTA proposals with a view to finding a common position.

"In default of a proper dialogue, the FOTA financial proposals were discussed but it became clear that these would not be capable of limiting the expenditure of a team which had the resources to outspend its competitors. Another financial arms race would then be inevitable.

"The FIA Financial Regulations therefore remain as published."

Champions Ferrari have threatened to walk out after an unbroken 60 years in Formula One if an optional 40 million pound ($65.22 million) budget cap, designed to help new teams enter and existing ones weather the credit crunch, is not scrapped. Renault, Toyota and the two Red Bull teams have also said they cannot accept the rules.

The FIA published its 2010 entry list last Friday that listed Ferrari and the Red Bull teams as confirmed participants, against their wishes, and five other existing teams as provisional.

The five were given until Friday to make their entries unconditional, with a warning that other would-be entrants were waiting in the wings to join the three new teams already confirmed.

Hopes had risen that Monday's meeting might reach an agreement after the FIA said they felt there had been a "large measure of agreement" in talks last Thursday with representatives of Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Brawn GP.

"I think there are still the opportunities this week to resolve the issues and if the issues are resolved then we will be happy to enter," Brawn team owner Ross Brawn had told reporters on Monday.

However, the FIA also warned that there was an "element" within FOTA that was "determined to prevent any agreement being reached."
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Old 17th June 2009, 08:02   #71
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Everything is pointing towards a breakaway series!

Even the drivers have started quoting about their support for the breakaway series.

So its going to be interesting times from now on
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Old 17th June 2009, 19:09   #72
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I think we need to look at any breakaway very carefully. IMO, its a disastrous move for several reasons
1) Logistics: Who governs it, what are the rules, which tracks, format of the racing etc. There's very little time left to decide
2) Legal battles: You bet Bernie won't be happy and will definitely sue
3) Cost: How many teams can actually afford to participate? Definitely the cost of participating in the breakaway is more than 40m pounds and not many can afford that.
4) Ferrari: It does revolve around them and if the FIA indeed manage to force them to race in F1 then the breakaway is dead before it begins.
5) Split fan base: Some fans will swap over leaving both series' with lower overall TV revenues than if they were a single series.

If you ask me, the teams are playing a very dangerous game. So are the FIA. If they kiss and make up, the top of motorsport is gonna be in complete chaos for the next few years
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Old 17th June 2009, 19:39   #73
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Why are these middlemen (read FIA) ruining the game?

The game is for fans, for constructors and for the racers. It seems that FIA is sacrificing all three to earn more moolah. I really really wish that, the whole FIA controlling mechanism is scrapped and manufacturers get better say in the decision making.

I'll rather look forward to the break-away series than circus run by Bernie/Max.
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Old 17th June 2009, 19:49   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
I'll rather look forward to the break-away series than circus run by Bernie/Max.
Yes, but I doubt if it can match the excitement that F1 has offered so far. Imagine if only five teams sign up and they have no proper organisation, broadcasting, rules, etc. It could very well happen which is why I'm hoping they sign up and get on with it.
The breakaway really is not easy to implement and will in all likelihood be a disappointment. If you think about, it is probably why the FIA is playing hardball with FOTA.
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Old 17th June 2009, 19:50   #75
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Exclamation The FIA needs to wake up !

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
I think we need to look at any breakaway very carefully. IMO, its a disastrous move for several reasons
Yes, this is very true, the breakaway series, if there is one, will face a multitude of issues & hurdles. For the sake of the fans, one hopes that in addition to threatening to breakaway, FOTA has also been planning for 2010 in the event that they do breakaway (God forbid) !

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
1) Logistics: Who governs it, what are the rules, which tracks, format of the racing etc. There's very little time left to decide
The breakway series, I'm guessing, will almost entirely draw upon the current regulations to reduce development spending. But new agreements would have to be drawn up with the tracks, organizers, transporters, broadcasters, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
2) Legal battles: You bet Bernie won't be happy and will definitely sue
This will be, by far, the biggest issue faced by FOTA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
3) Cost: How many teams can actually afford to participate? Definitely the cost of participating in the breakaway is more than 40m pounds and not many can afford that.
The teams that are threatening to breakway want to spend more than the budget cap, so hopefully this shouldn't be a big factor. Out of the 10 FOTA teams, Williams & Force-India have already broken ranks, so we're left with 8 teams. The life expectancy of Renault & Toyota is rumored to be doubtful, leading to a worst case scenario of 6 teams only (I'd still watch the breakaways though) !

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
4) Ferrari: It does revolve around them and if the FIA indeed manage to force them to race in F1 then the breakaway is dead before it begins.
If this happens, we'll all have to endure a whole season of 2005-US-GP like races. Would Ferrari split its budgets & run in both series (me thinks not) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
5) Split fan base: Some fans will swap over leaving both series' with lower overall TV revenues than if they were a single series.
IRL split from CART, it wasn't good for both, then CART went bankrupt & was assimilated into IRL. Knowing a breakway series will damage both parties, I can't beleive the FIA (read Max) is being so obtuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
If you ask me, the teams are playing a very dangerous game. So are the FIA.
Such a show was made last year (or was it 2007?) when the FIA went looking for fan feedback on how to make F1 interesting. One would think they would do something similar before taking such a monumentally insensitive & dim-witted stand !?!

Last edited by im_srini : 17th June 2009 at 19:52.
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