Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Motor-Sports > Int'l Motorsport


View Poll Results: Whom would you blame for the Indianapolis fiasco?
Michelin 38 59.38%
FIA, Bernie 8 12.50%
Ferrari 11 17.19%
All teams using Michelin tyres 7 10.94%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th June 2005, 02:12   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
Dippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 7,261
Thanked: 142 Times
Default

As much as one would blame Ferrari for the US GP farce, the real culprits have to be Michelin. Michelin supply 7 of the 10 teams currently on the grid. How can such a professional tyre company be so careless as to get a wrong tyre design and only find out after a driver has a crash. What would have happened if Ralf by chance didnt crash and the race went on with Michelin thinking the right tyre was used?

There would have been mayhem on the circuit and there would be greater danger and risk to life if that had happened. What would Michelin have to say then? Michelin had the other option of having cars slow down at turn 13 and run with higher tyre pressure. But that too was dangerous. Hence Michelin asked for permission to fly down a fresh batch of tyres but were denied. Couldnt seven teams put pressure on Bernie and have him let Michelin get the new tyres ? Of course they could have but they didnt. Instead they just went with Michelin and preffered to sit the race out. Im sure if Ferrari can persue Bernie not to have the chicane, the other teams together could have worked out getting new tyres for the race

Ferrari were absolutely out of contention for the title but these points have bought them back .

Now if by chance Ferrari do start winning races and get the title too who will the teams blame for the loss ? Michelin of course

And yes rule changes were made to stop Ferraris success run werent they?

I feel one should just think over whether is its just Ferrari who are to blame for the farce or the FIA too and yes Michelin of course

Dippy
Dippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:12   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
adya33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,839
Thanked: 91 Times
Default

Quote:
but if Michlen tyres had a problem only at that banked corner why did the cars have to do that corner at 190mph.ur car is faulty,ur tyres are bad u go slower through that turn at 170mph
that section of track was redone
& bridgstone did had data about it from recent Indy500
also micheline's on that corner were subjected to high speed failure & hence drivers safety

& if micheline cars would have done that corner so slow then we would have had same results so what was the point
adya33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:16   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
turbo_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Windsor
Posts: 1,377
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

sorry my bad ..i heard the pit radio say something like trulli 7th , kimi 8th so i thought they were classified ....

well the race was complete bummmer ... not the battle is on between Kimi and Michael for 2nd place ...
ferrari seem to have gotten rid of their reliability issues ...car is looking very strong ...
turbo_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:19   #34
Team-BHP Support
 
manson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,496
Thanked: 1,819 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33

if micheline cars would have done that corner so slow then we would have had same results so what was the point
so are you trying to say that if the conditions are not extremely favourable one should not race at all , so where has the racing spirit vanished now ?

manson .
manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:22   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33
that section of track was redone
& bridgstone did had data about it from recent Indy500
also micheline's on that corner were subjected to high speed failure & hence drivers safety

& if micheline cars would have done that corner so slow then we would have had same results so what was the point
what non-sense.data or no data if ur tyres are not able to withstand high speed at a certain point on the track for the saftey of the car and the drivers if u like,u go slower through that point not go and change that point on the track to suit ur tyres,whatever the end result.it is michlens fault.no reason for Ferrari to be blamed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by from FIA
On Saturday, Michelin said it would advise its teams not to race if the new tyres could not be used. But FIA Formula One race director Charlie Whiting made it clear that the governing body would not suspend the rules, and it was up to Michelin and the teams to look after their drivers' safety.

"No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in turn 13," Whiting wrote. "We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors."

Last edited by merve_extreme : 20th June 2005 at 02:24.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:23   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
adya33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,839
Thanked: 91 Times
Default

Quote:
How can such a professional tyre company be so careless as to get a wrong tyre design and only find out after a driver has a crash
that part of track was recently redone
bridgstone had data about it from recent Indy 500

Quote:
Hence Michelin asked for permission to fly down a fresh batch of tyres but were denied.
those were Bercilona spec tyres

Quote:
Couldnt seven teams put pressure on Bernie and have him let Michelin get the new tyres ?
they did even Minardi & Jordan (only to pull out at last minute) joined them
however to make any change in rule ALL 10 TEAMS NEED TO AGREE

Quote:
Instead they just went with Michelin and preffered to sit the race out
at the parade lap did you hear DC's pit to car radio
DC was all ready to go racing (would have been same with others too)
however teams decided inorder to drivers safety

Quote:
other teams together could have worked out getting new tyres for the race
didn't micheline flew in barce. spec tyres just to be denied by FIA ?

Quote:
And yes rule changes were made to stop Ferraris success run werent they?
do you call todays race (was it?) a Ferrari success run?
FYI new rules were ment to bring in more compitition into F1 & to save cost

Quote:
I feel one should just think over whether is its just Ferrari who are to blame for the farce or the FIA too and yes Michelin of course
of course Micheline made a mistake but they did flew in new tyres, suggested putting chicane & teams even came to conclusion that bridg running teams will start from front & mich teams will start from back with chicane in place

FIA = denied putting barce spec tyres, resisted putting chicane
Ferrari = last hope of racing fans to make US GP a GP but indeed went against 9 teams to get 1-2 position (say said they haven't done anything wrong)
if Ferrari would have joined all teams they would have been able to make that chicane or come to some sensible conclusion
adya33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:23   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
turbo_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Windsor
Posts: 1,377
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
so are you trying to say that if the conditions are not extremely favourable one should not race at all , so where has the racing spirit vanished now ?
manson .
Nope...safety comes first ..its foolishness to drive something which is unpredcitable at such speeds ...ralfs nears near fatal experience is an example of what haoppen when the tyre ails at such speeds...
turbo_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:24   #38
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 6,995
Thanked: 21,576 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen
Paul Stoddart's booing on camera and his argument about him racing only cos Jordan was was a bunch of crap. If he felt so strongly, he should've kept his cars in the garage.
I agree. I heard one of the commentators say that the minimum number of cars required to start a race is six. If both the Minardis were kept out, there would be just four cars and the race would have not started. So, there wouldn't be points for Jordan either.
Aditya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:26   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,818
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
so are you trying to say that if the conditions are not extremely favourable one should not race at all , so where has the racing spirit vanished now ?

manson .
I think the implications of this race and the Michelin 'boycott' are going to go beyond tyre manufacturers - this event is just another move in the F1 Chess game.

As for conditions being favourable, I feel there is a strong case for a new GP series like the A1 series where everyone drives the same car with the same set of tyres...I'm pretty sick of seeing races being decided by tyre compounds and pit stop strategies.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:27   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
adya33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,839
Thanked: 91 Times
Default

Quote:
so are you trying to say that if the conditions are not extremely favourable one should not race at all , so where has the racing spirit vanished now ?
if conditions are infavour of having one/several of the drivers having serious accident then yes they shouldn't race
Quote:
u go slower through that point not go and change that point on the track to suit ur tyres,whatever the end result
that would have made things even worse imagine Kimi & MS having a battle for 3rd place when they approach 13th turn & by your logic Kimi suddenly brakes to save his tyre & MS is slip streaming him - Spa 98?

Quote:
it is michlens fault.no reason for Ferrari to be blamed.
see my post prior to this one
adya33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:30   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
X-Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mumbai/Tokyo
Posts: 1,476
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Kimi has not scored any points.Infact now Ferrari and McLarens stand levels at 63 in the Constructors championship with Renault leading at 76.This is so frustrating.

X

Last edited by X-Machine : 20th June 2005 at 02:34.
X-Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:30   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

this all just a cheap joke by michlen.saftey can be achive by reducing speeds not boycotting something,if they had even a little thought about the people they could have atleast raced their cars maybe at a lower speed,atleast all michlen teams would be on the same level.this GWPC group is just like BJP,fist start boycotting the FIA meetings and now races.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:32   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
Dippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 7,261
Thanked: 142 Times
Default

Imagine if Ferrari came to the GP weekend and found out that their engines would not last above say 20 laps if pushed to the limit, would the other teams compromise and run their engines below optimum revvs just so that all cars are on par and Ferrari can compete? No ways

Come to think of it , Ferrari has had problems with Bridgestone tyres every race this season and we all know Schumi jad 2 flat tyres in one of the previous races . Did they ask the FIA to slow down cars or get a fresh batch of tyres just for them? They didnt and they took defeat as it came to them.

Its all so stupid of Michelin to ask the FIA to bend the rules just for them and oh yes wont that be selfishness on Michelins part to get an advantage for themselves. All Ferrari did was stick to the rules and not compromise.

If Michelin were given the go ahead to supply fresh tyres from France all you guys would be raving about how amazing a Kimi or Alonso victory was isnt it ?

I really dont see anything to blame Ferrari .

If Ferrari would have celebrated on the podium, again the anti Ferrari and anti Schumis would take a pick on them and boo them for celebrating a hollow victory

Dippy
Dippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:32   #44
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

for the people who think FIA denied permission for barcelona spec tyres read this Fia release.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FIA(whiting)
As to the use of newly arrived tyres, Whiting said it would be a breach of rules to be considered by the stewards, and while the penalty would likely not be exclusion, it would have to be heavy enough to deter teams from similar actions in the future.

Whiting suggested that the affected teams, which include world championship front runners Renault and McLaren, could change any affected tyre during the race, which is allowed under the rules for safety reasons.

"If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail... and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty," he said.
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2005, 02:38   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
merve_extreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,360
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

and here comes the apology from the right people to be blames for this nonsense.and even now they blame Ferrari for this.Cheap people,put a chicane at turn 13,even i can give better solutions than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joint statement from the Michelin runners
The following is a join statement from the Michelin runners who did not take part in the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis.

"The Michelin teams deeply regret the position that they have been put in today and would like to apologise to all the spectators, TV viewers, Formula One fans and sponsors for not being able to take part in today's USA Grand Prix.

Following Ralf Schumacher's accident on Friday morning, we were advised by Michelin that none of the tyres that were available to the teams could be used unless the vehicle speed in Turn 13 was reduced. Without this Michelin did not consider the tyre to be safe to be used for the race.

All the teams are confident in Michelin and trust their advice as we know they are competent and responsible and their written instruction to us not to race unless changes to the circuit were made was accepted.

After final data from Michelin became available at 06.30 on Sunday morning it became clear that Michelin were not able to guarantee the safety of the drivers. Numerous discussions and meetings took place to find a safe solution to the problem. Every possibility for the race to go ahead in a safe manner was explored. The only practical solution was for a chicane to be installed prior to Turn 13 and nine of the teams were prepared to run under these conditions even forgoing championship points or by allowing non-Michelin teams to take top positions on the grid.

Unfortunately all proposals were rejected by the FIA.

Safety is always the first concern of any team and the FIA. Regrettably the teams were obliged to follow Michelin's requirements not to race.

We are totally aware that the USA is an important market for Formula One and there is an obligation for Formula One to promote itself in a positive and professional manner. It is sad that we couldn't showcase Formula One in the manner we would have liked today."

Press Release
Michelin Teams
merve_extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SPOTTED :2 mini motos , 1 Kawasaki Vulkan , 2005 CBR 1000RR n 2005 ZX10R varun_patra Super-Cars & Imports in India 1 31st October 2005 12:45
British Grand Prix shravan316 Int'l Motorsport 17 12th July 2004 14:32
French Grand Prix... shravan316 Int'l Motorsport 10 6th July 2004 03:37
Grand prix de Monaco 2004 S350L-E240 Int'l Motorsport 19 24th May 2004 23:36
San Marino Grand Prix Gordon Int'l Motorsport 9 26th April 2004 04:57


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:59.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks