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Old 1st September 2009, 17:55   #151
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
What exactly is Indian about this?! The last I heard, the owner is an NRI, to reduce incidence of Indian income tax. Other than he, I don't think there is any Indian contribution to the team. I can understand this sentiment if Karthikeyan had even just finished in the points, but not for this, to be honest.
Btw, Tata sponsors Ferrari, so we can have such joy when Ferrari wins too?!
If some one has pointed this out already in the preceding hoopla, my apologies for not seeing the point in scrolling through all of it.
So what if he is an NRI. He holds an indian passport and calls his team Force India! For heavens sake do you want the man to wear khadhi chaddhis to prove he is Indian.

I was an NRI for over 15 years of my life. That did not make me any less Indian.

/sanjay
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Old 1st September 2009, 18:07   #152
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You are saying they are not beautiful enough to win?

I think they are and they deserved it. I was there all of 14 years when the Miss India competition was held in Goa and from where Sushmita and Aishwarya went on to win the Universe and World.

They are really deserving i tell you... honest.

PS: Get the analogy to the F1 win?
You are a gem !!! You don't really understand the subtle and not so subtle ways the media operates, do you ? So let me spell it out for you, the analogy was, would Indians have won, deservedly or not, had it not been for the cosmetic giants wanting to get into India in a big way. And since you think they won it so deservedly, remember Priyanka Chopra stating that the LIVING person she admired most was Mother Teresa, when she was already long dead, and she still bloody hell won.
And my skepticism was on that analogy? Notice how the good Dr. Mallya is now after the Sports Minister, touting his win?He has done nothing for Indian sports. He wants viewership up in India so that he benefits.

And please note, I am with VM on this and think the Sports Minister should have listed Auto Racing as a Sport rather than expensive entertainement. But VM was deafeningly silent on all of this up until Sunday. So much for everything...Now I am really going to get it .

I suppose you are the one who will also believe everything thats on TV with the car and bike shows. So let me open your eyes, the people who earlier did weather, then did business news are now also hosting auto shows. All they do is repeat what the auto firms PR wants them to mouth. We need critical analysis, which is what we get here on team BHP and hence why many are now turning to forums such as this.
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Old 1st September 2009, 18:26   #153
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You are a gem !!! You don't really understand the subtle and not so subtle ways the media operates, do you ?
Don't waste your time. He was the first one to doubt the authenticity of the outcome of IPL season 2 with the question "How many think the IPL season 2 was rigged?"
Now when some guys are tickling the authenticity of the F1 success, it has suddenly become unbearable.

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So let me spell it out for you, the analogy was, would Indians have won, deservedly or not, had it not been for the cosmetic giants wanting to get into India in a big way.
I know about this and this was long back. If they had to enter Indian markets, they could have just bribed the related ministers to get their licenses and got their way in. Its not only that. I wonder if was anything to do with guaranteed sales, or setting sales chart on fire with the beauty paegent leverage they got.


See there are people who will believe the media just blindly, be it, what is happening in Kashmir, or Afghanistan, or Mangalore, moon landing, Iraq or whatever.

You need to hear the real stories from the horse's mouth. Come visit Christ Univ, you fill meet many exchange students. But who's gonna take the effort? What easy is trust the media blindly on the comfort of your couch . So be it.

They only thing I trust from the Media is something like India has won a series in Aussie or S Africa, when there is plenty of evidence to support it.

Last edited by prince_pervez : 1st September 2009 at 18:29.
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Old 1st September 2009, 18:36   #154
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Let me get this straight. Some of you are suggesting that F1 is completely rigged in addition to many other sports and events? Wow, that's one I've never heard of!
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Old 1st September 2009, 19:06   #155
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Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
They only thing I trust from the Media is something like India has won a series in Aussie or S Africa, when there is plenty of evidence to support it.
OT, but... what if the matches are rigged?? LOL.

Seeler, there is only a point till which a hunch or a feeling can be pushed without any proof. What next? If a beauty pageant can be used for comparison with a sport like Formula 1 which has a clearly defined finish line, you might as well use elections in Pakistan also for comparison!

EDIT: Also, how come such theories come to fore only when an Indian or an Indian team is winning. Is our self confidence so low that we dont believe we can achieve anything without cheating?

Last edited by amitoj : 1st September 2009 at 19:13. Reason: Another thought came...
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Old 1st September 2009, 19:32   #156
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[quote/]
Seeler, there is only a point till which a hunch or a feeling can be pushed without any proof. What next? If a beauty pageant can be used for comparison with a sport like Formula 1 which has a clearly defined finish line, you might as well use elections in Pakistan also for comparison!
EDIT: Also, how come such theories come to fore only when an Indian or an Indian team is winning. Is our self confidence so low that we dont believe we can achieve anything without cheating?[/quote]

OK, it is not only when India is involved. The point is when sports are having a national garb to it, it becomes difficult to raise doubts, criticize without getting sucked up into the nationalistic comments.

So, ever heard of baseball match fixing,ever heard about the soccer match fixing especially in Italy,Russia, lets not get near cricket else you will accuse me of having low self esteem ... Want me to go on ? And Formula one is no angel as far as scandals are concerned ...just google it.
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Old 1st September 2009, 19:43   #157
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Originally Posted by Seeler_Rebeiro View Post
OK, it is not only when India is involved. The point is when sports are having a national garb to it, it becomes difficult to raise doubts, criticize without getting sucked up into the nationalistic comments.

So, ever heard of baseball match fixing,ever heard about the soccer match fixing especially in Italy,Russia, lets not get near cricket else you will accuse me of having low self esteem ... Want me to go on ? And Formula one is no angel as far as scandals are concerned ...just google it.
Glad to know your cynicism has no nationality, and goes beyond a particular sport. But the way you keep insisting upon it, you got any proof to support your theories? Other than Aaj Tak like sources maybe?
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Old 1st September 2009, 19:59   #158
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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
OT, you might as well use elections in Pakistan also for comparison!
Not worth following.
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EDIT: Also, how come such theories come to fore only when an Indian or an Indian team is winning. Is our self confidence so low that we dont believe we can achieve anything without cheating?
I was talking about IPL season 2. Where we did not win.
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Old 1st September 2009, 20:03   #159
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Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
Not worth following.

I was talking about IPL season 2. Where we did not win.
Ummm... i was not talking about IPL.
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Old 1st September 2009, 20:17   #160
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Guys this thread has gone way off topic. Its about the race not about whether everything in the world is rigged
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Old 1st September 2009, 20:23   #161
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But look at the rulebook. It does not make a distinction between inside and outside of the turn. Remember Hamilton being penalised in France last year for overtaking Vettel at the chicane on lap one and then running wide after the pass? The official reason was that he had gained an advantage. Technically he went the long way around too and therefore should not have been punished. And even if you don't think Raikkonen was wrong, Barrichello was clearly cutting the corner and overtook at least two cars. Looks like the melee behind him let him slip past unnoticed.
The thing is, the rulebook is sometimes open to interpretation. FIA has habit of being inconsistent in applying the rules. But generally, FIA is fine with it if a driver takes the longer route, I don't know about other corners, but Spa first corner they seem to be fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Seeler_Rebeiro View Post
OK, it is not only when India is involved. The point is when sports are having a national garb to it, it becomes difficult to raise doubts, criticize without getting sucked up into the nationalistic comments.

So, ever heard of baseball match fixing,ever heard about the soccer match fixing especially in Italy,Russia, lets not get near cricket else you will accuse me of having low self esteem ... Want me to go on ? And Formula one is no angel as far as scandals are concerned ...just google it.
OK, is there any sport (or anything in the world) that is not fixed or not possible to be fixed by any means?
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Old 1st September 2009, 20:27   #162
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Any sport can be rigged. But to doubt a peron or team, you first need to have a good enough reson to do so.

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Old 1st September 2009, 23:44   #163
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
But being stuck in a concertina of cars is certainly slower than going at a much higher speed along a longer and dirtier path, which is how Kimi found himself in third. Same with Rubens. That they had no choice is irrelevant if seen in the context of the rules. They went off, gained an advantage in terms of track position and did not give it up (in accordance to the two corner rule as agreed at Monza last year).
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But look at the rulebook. It does not make a distinction between inside and outside of the turn. .
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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
The thing is, the rulebook is sometimes open to interpretation. FIA has habit of being inconsistent in applying the rules.
why dont the stewards rule that while going around a group of cars (long way or short way) off the track the driver has to be aware of his track position (the pit can help) and back off so that he/she returns the the postiion he/she was in before he/she went off the track. if however some of tehcars met with an accident (while the driver was off the track) those cars would be counted as part of the cars that would have been in front of the driver.

In neither Kimi's or Ruben's case were they really avoiding an accident. The went around cars that had started before them and ended up being behind them after they rejoined the race.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 02:51   #164
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Needless to say this is one big achievement made by Force India. and hats off to Giancarlo Fisichella for pulling such a tight race with kimi,and getting on the podium!
But he really disappointed me with his statement after the race, he acted like a kid on the mic,those are his exact words. who says they 'Could Have Won' and 'I was faster than kimi' ??he lost and that is it!dont need that lame explanation!

“Actually if I can be honest I am a little disappointed as I felt we could have won the race. I was unlucky with the safety car when Kimi came past me at the restart and overtook me with the KERS.Actually behind him I was quicker but with the KERS I couldn't get past as it was impossible to be quick on the long straight.” Giancarlo Fisichella.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 07:05   #165
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So what if he is an NRI. He holds an indian passport and calls his team Force India! For heavens sake do you want the man to wear khadhi chaddhis to prove he is Indian.

I was an NRI for over 15 years of my life. That did not make me any less Indian.

/sanjay
The khadi remark is crude.
If I am doing significant business in India, where my company headquarters are, and if I live in Dubai and run the companies from there by having board meetings there if necessary, by remaining out of India for the necessary number of days every year so as to retain NRI status for tax, to avoid paying Indian income taxes, I think it makes me less of an Indian. In his case, maybe he is innocent of the crimes for which VP Singh arrested him - someone's post to the effect was the first I have heard of that - but even so, one can't have ones cake and eat it too.
The NRIs that are usually respected in India and the countries they live in, are the ones that have built a life and a career overseas, and contribute to the economic, social and political life of the countries that sustain them.
Our problem is that we are so starved of success on the global stage, that anything tends to suffice.
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