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Old 23rd September 2009, 21:47   #136
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So who is this mystery chap?

'Witness X' condemned Briatore - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

I'd bet on it being either Alonso's engineer or Alonso himself.
It has to be someone involved in decision making, either Alonso himself or the race engineer of Alonso or Piquet.
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Old 24th September 2009, 10:22   #137
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Nice article on Flavio Briatore and some depth of analysis into his life. Interesting, the Renault scandal is not the first time, Flavio is charged with fraud. To whoever said "You form habits and then habits form you" Read along...

Link to Independent Article
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Old 24th September 2009, 12:15   #138
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Nice article on Flavio Briatore and some depth of analysis into his life. Interesting, the Renault scandal is not the first time, Flavio is charged with fraud. To whoever said "You form habits and then habits form you" Read along...

Link to Independent Article
Hey, this is a nice article and good productivity downer

I've known that Briatore had lots of scandals during his time in F1, but didn't think that he'd made a career full of them. An article on all the frauds/scandals he has commited will be an interesting read too.
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Old 24th September 2009, 17:39   #139
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
That would be unfair. Both drivers' mindsets would be completely different going into the next few races. For instance, Hamilton would've aimed for the win in Brazil and not fifth.
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Definitely Agree. The teams would have approached the races differently.

Not fair huh?? what else can we expect from a guy who calls himself McLaren Rules !!!

Not fair to Massa is what I think it is.
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Old 24th September 2009, 19:14   #140
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Not fair huh?? what else can we expect from a guy who calls himself McLaren Rules !!!

Not fair to Massa is what I think it is.
Why just Massa? I say not fair to any non Renault driver who raced that day and particularly those who were in WDC hunt at that point (Kimi, Kubica etc)
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Old 24th September 2009, 21:02   #141
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Not fair huh?? what else can we expect from a guy who calls himself McLaren Rules !!!

Not fair to Massa is what I think it is.
For starters, Massa's pitstop could have gone wrong irrespective of the safety car. At the end of the day, Hamilton and Massa faced the same situation (unexpected SC) and Hamilton and Mclaren made the most of it to finish third while Ferrari messed up.

In fact, if the FIA had known of the scandal and had reached a verdict immediately after the race, Alonso would have been DQed and Hamilton would have acutally increased his lead over Massa.

Above all, the most fundamental point is that changing one race result would mean that the rest of the season and the subsequent race results would have changed too. The very reason why the FIA didn't even strip Alonso of his win was because it is too late to do so.

Hamilton won fair and square. You can call me biased or unfair if you want but that's what I think.
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Old 24th September 2009, 21:17   #142
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Why just Massa? I say not fair to any non Renault driver who raced that day and particularly those who were in WDC hunt at that point (Kimi, Kubica etc)


It was unfair to all other competitors who because of these underhand tactics were unknowlingly participating in an unfair race.

It was unfair to sponsors linked with the team, if they are also affected due to association with such a team and who spend millions so that these teams can race.

It is also very very unfair to the thousands of fans who spend their time, energy and money in watching and following this sport and who are now realizing that the race was manipulated. In the end, F1 is answerable to these fans without whom, all the guys in the industry might as well pack up and find other jobs.
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Old 25th September 2009, 09:35   #143
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and now bernie uncle gets all soft cornered over F Briatore being banned for life. he says Flavio should've handled the scene a lil differently and this matter could've been sorted out easily. and here we are seeking justice to all the other race drivers for the 'planned' crash.
what a bunch of psychos running the show.
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Old 25th September 2009, 12:06   #144
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and now bernie uncle gets all soft cornered over F Briatore being banned for life. he says Flavio should've handled the scene a lil differently and this matter could've been sorted out easily. and here we are seeking justice to all the other race drivers for the 'planned' crash.
what a bunch of psychos running the show.
Scene: New FIA president and then they reconsider Flav's ban after 1 year!
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Old 25th September 2009, 12:30   #145
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
For starters, Massa's pitstop could have gone wrong irrespective of the safety car. At the end of the day, Hamilton and Massa faced the same situation (unexpected SC) and Hamilton and Mclaren made the most of it to finish third while Ferrari messed up.

In fact, if the FIA had known of the scandal and had reached a verdict immediately after the race, Alonso would have been DQed and Hamilton would have acutally increased his lead over Massa.

Above all, the most fundamental point is that changing one race result would mean that the rest of the season and the subsequent race results would have changed too. The very reason why the FIA didn't even strip Alonso of his win was because it is too late to do so.

Hamilton won fair and square. You can call me biased or unfair if you want but that's what I think.
Any pit-stop in F1 could go wrong. I would agree with you.

But the pit-stop for Massa was messed up since he was comfortably leading in SingaporeGP and had to come to a point where he would lose his position in pit-stop because a moron just put his car on the wall. And yeah, the pit-stop did really test the nerve of the Ferrari pit crew and they failed. But the test happened only because of another Brazilian moron!

Ferrari was looking good for a 1-2 finish and the Renault team messed everything up!

Everyone knows how much Hamilton cracked under pressure in Brazil 08', through the race and got the fat lady luck sitting on him only in the last corner! Otherwise, his race in Brazil 08' was a mess! Lets not talk about it now.

Last edited by anachronix : 25th September 2009 at 12:36.
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Old 25th September 2009, 16:49   #146
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Renault has lost its main sponsor ING and also insurance company Mutua Madrilena due to the scandal. Tough times ahead.

autosport.com - F1 News: ING ends Renault deal immediately
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Old 25th September 2009, 17:57   #147
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They desreve to lose their sponsors .
After all they have lost little else.
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Old 25th September 2009, 19:12   #148
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Ferrari was looking good for a 1-2 finish and the Renault team messed everything up!
I won't argue whether it was Renault's fault that Ferrari messed up. I personally think it was a pitcrew error coinciding with another accident and not necessarily a cause and effect scenario. However, that point is moot because the question MPower is asking is if Massa deserves the title and the answer to that is no, because changing one result and expecting the rest of the season to have played out in exactly the same way is absurd.

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Everyone knows how much Hamilton cracked under pressure in Brazil 08', through the race and got the fat lady luck sitting on him only in the last corner! Otherwise, his race in Brazil 08' was a mess! Lets not talk about it now.
His Brazilian GP was poor mainly because McLaren went far too conservative. Aiming for fifth messed their strategy up. They still managed to get it just right though.

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 25th September 2009 at 19:13.
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Old 25th September 2009, 19:12   #149
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Both the sponsors Mutua Madrilena and ING were set to depart from Renault at the end of 2010 anyway. It may have a sudden impact on the team, but with F1 working at a very different payment contract module the impact would be minimal.
It remains to be soon who the title sponsors would be for Renault in 2010. With the biggest disgrace to the sport in its history coming from Renault, it would be difficult to bring in new sponsors.
Although F1 is a dream job for many, I'm sure Bell the new Renault Boss would have one of the most difficult task in seeing the team through to the next year.
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Old 25th September 2009, 20:11   #150
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I won't argue whether it was Renault's fault that Ferrari messed up. I personally think it was a pitcrew error coinciding with another accident and not necessarily a cause and effect scenario. However, that point is moot because the question MPower is asking is if Massa deserves the title and the answer to that is no, because changing one result and expecting the rest of the season to have played out in exactly the same way is absurd.
I have agreed to your point that Ferrari pit crew failed the test of 'Extreme Pressure'. The point is, this unnecessary pressure was caused by the SC incident caused by the Renault team. Massa was leading the race by more than 8 seconds when the incident happened and his pit-stop for sure would have been trouble free otherwise. He was simply driving wheels out of the Ferrari during the initial laps and the qualifying but during the later part of his race was a disappointed Massa just trying to finish the race just for the heck of it. All this caused by 2 disgraced driver and 2 disgraced managers!

My only worry now is, the dirty driver of the grid is coming to Ferrari! He is just going to ruin all the reputation! :(

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His Brazilian GP was poor mainly because McLaren went far too conservative. Aiming for fifth messed their strategy up. They still managed to get it just right though.
Too conservative doesnt mean one got to fumble so much! Conservative means a very chilled out race absolutely no problems targeting a lower position with a decent fuel strategy. But, it was all looking a mess

My friend, lets leave the topic on season 2008! Enough has been discussed already!

Last edited by anachronix : 25th September 2009 at 20:13.
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