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Old 25th July 2005, 16:05   #31
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another entertainer from yesterdays race would be Jacque villeneuve ..he was bumping cars with everyone ! last time hitting Albers or one of the minardis and then driving half the circuit with the broken nose rubbing stuck under his car ..

he seems like a patient suffering from fits of extreme road rage ..and narain should try his luck in the WRC he has amazing drifting abilities that too on racing slicks ...
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Old 25th July 2005, 16:15   #32
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Originally Posted by turbo_lover
another entertainer from yesterdays race would be Jacque villeneuve ..he was bumping cars with everyone ! last time hitting Albers or one of the minardis and then driving half the circuit with the broken nose rubbing stuck under his car ..
...
Yes. How did I forget him? Isn't he the sone of Giles villeneuve, the legendary Ferrari F1 driver, if I am not mistaken?
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Old 25th July 2005, 17:04   #33
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yes he is the son of legendary Gilles Villeneuve and also a 1-time F1 champion but it seems recently he has lost some data in the racing program that is stored in his brain,especially the part that determines how to prevent from crashing into others and staying on the track .

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Old 25th July 2005, 17:17   #34
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i think he has a compatibilty problem ..certainly not a favourite amongst his team managers and co drivers ..
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Old 25th July 2005, 18:29   #35
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i thought his collision with the other car (wasnt it monteiro?) was entirely the other car's fault... villenueve was lapping monteiro when all of a sudden monteiro landed right in front of villenueve and he had no chance of braking in time!
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Old 25th July 2005, 19:56   #36
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Hey just came to know that the reason for Kimi's retirement was not because of Hydraulic failure but because of fluid leak triggered by human error. A pressure relief valve had apparently not been re-fastened properly after a check.
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Old 25th July 2005, 20:19   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
he has won more races than all the current F1 drivers put together multiplied by 3.
if u think MS has cheated then u should have seen the way Aryton sena and Alian prost used to fight,that too being team-mates.that is how the races were then.u should see how montoya in not bothered to put someone in the dirt same with jacques Villeneuve .MS drove superbly to hold off JB,Montoya and Fischella in a car that has no grip from the rear tyres and also Fischella could pass him because he had a sudden loss of fuel pressure just before the hairpin turn.

MS is regarded as the greatest driver of the current generation.some team principals like Patrick Head,Ron denis,sir frank william all regard him greter than or equal to aryton sena.
Records dont mean a thing, as I have been watching formula 1 for 8 years now and I dont miss a single race. Formula 1 is a sport that a driver can do 20% and 80% is the car. And Michael has always been in cars that are race winners with his contract which makes him the number one driver. How many times has Barrichelo let him pass him, or just race so that Michael has an advantage.

In 2000 when Irvine used to be his team mate and he had an accident, than once Ferrari put their resources behind Irvine, he almost became a world champion, showing that what Michael achieved with Ferrari is nothing exceptional and any driver that Ferrari will focus on has the potential to be a champion. Now this season that his car is not performing, you see Michael struggling like all other drivers at the back of the field and being lapped. His own brother called him stupid and dangerous this year. Michael has a nack of defending and changing his line and not letting others overtake him. When a backmarker sees him, they have to let him go, else he will ruin their careers as he is heard a lot in F1 and is also the head of the Drivers association. Ferrari and Michael are really close with Max Mosely the F1 director and most of the F1 rules are created to give advantage to Ferrari. A simple demonstration of the fact in Indianapolis this year, where Ferrari was the only team that didnt want the chicane put so that everyone can race as they wanted to win, by hook or crook. Ferrari defies the test ban that all other teams have signed. They test at will. All other 8 manufacturers want to start their own series in 2008 except Ferrari as they virtually are hand in glove with current F1 beuracracy.

Changing lanes while someone is overtaking you, or banging deliberately into someone to win a world championship is not racing, thats stuff you do in a Theme Park with your freinds. When cars travel 200 mph, one cant risk the lives of other drivers for his desire to win.

When Montoya gives him a taste of his own medicine, he cries that Montoya is playing foul. Having watched Michael, I would say Michael is a cheater, he doesnt let anyone pass easy, and changes his line too often, and is prepared to even crash into the other car if need be, he is not good at overtaking, however he has always been blessed with a fast car, and he knows how to put in fast lap times in a good car consitantly. So yes, Michael is a fast driver, but he never will qualify as a great driver in my books no matter what stats show.

Last edited by aseem : 25th July 2005 at 20:30.
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Old 25th July 2005, 20:54   #38
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Originally Posted by aseem
Records dont mean a thing, as I have been watching formula 1 for 8 years now and I dont miss a single race. Formula 1 is a sport that a driver can do 20% and 80% is the car. And Michael has always been in cars that are race winners with his contract which makes him the number one driver.
I disagree with you that he always drove the fastest car. Michael joined Ferrari in 1996 and team was no good and they were not the winners as you said. He took the challenge of bringing up the team and made Ferrari the World champions.

Last edited by sridhar24 : 25th July 2005 at 20:56.
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Old 25th July 2005, 21:02   #39
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Originally Posted by sridhar24
I disagree with you that he always drove the fastest car. Michael joined Ferrari in 1996 and team was no good and they were not the winners as you said. He took the challenge of bringing up the team and made Ferrari the World champions.
I completely agree with you that in 1996 Ferrari were no good, thats why he didnt win the championship that year

Michael made sure before switching to Ferrari that they have the budget, the infrastructure, the right people and a contract that gives him number 1 driver status.

Had Ferraris fortuned not turned around he would have considered other teams.

Regarding him taking the challenge to revolve Ferrari, I am not sure to what extent a driver can change the team, else if he is so great, why doesnt he take the challenge to change the bridgestone tyres this year. As these things are not in his hands. He is just in a team that has the budget and resources and they keep pushing. Results should be good, but there is no garantee that they will be. And when they are not, he struggles just like any other driver.

There is no true way to test how good he is as a driver, as he has always had number 1 status in his contracts. Best way to test his driving skills would be to give him, montoya and kimi the same car and ask them to race. And I am sure, he will loose. As they wont pull over at the racing line to let him win the race like Barichhelo has done many times.
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Old 25th July 2005, 21:26   #40
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Quote:
And Michael has always been in cars that are race winners with his contract which makes him the number one driver.
dont you think a race winning car deserves a race winning driver ?

Quote:
How many times has Barrichelo let him pass him, or just race so that Michael has an advantage.
TWICE ... Formula -1 is a team sport .. drivers follow team orders so did barrichello ,they did so because with the ferrari 1-2 schumi would clearly win the championship and either ways wether or not barri came 2nd or 1st they would still bag the same number of points for the constructor ,they did what best suited the team at that time ..agreed its unfair on moral grounds but when you mean business emotions dont matter ..that rule has been abolished now ..

Quote:
he almost became a world champion
he didnt win the championship despite ferrari best efforts ...the wuss couldnt deliver the goods simple ..and now he sits back swears and curses at Schumi ...
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you see Michael struggling like all other drivers at the back of the field and being lapped.
he's not struggling ferrari is ..with that car he's still 3rd in the drivers standing !!4 points behind kimi and 16 points ahead of Juan pablo (who happens to be in 2 second a lap quicker car )...
Quote:
His own brother called him stupid and dangerous this year.
haha jokes dude ! what has he achieved till now ???the closest he has ever got to the championship is 4th place !he stands 8th this year in a car which is looking much better than the ferraris ...he should get to a position where he can critisize about michael ..
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Michael has a nack of defending and changing his line and not letting others overtake him.
neither does Albers while defending his position buddy ...trulli was fired pretty much
Quote:
for letting barri pass easily last season to give up 2nd place ...
When a backmarker sees him, they have to let him go, else he will ruin their careers as he is heard a lot in F1 and is also the head of the Drivers association. Ferrari and Michael are really close with Max Mosely the F1 director and most of the F1 rules are created to give advantage to Ferrari.
lets not make him sound like an Indian politician...you are being irrational about this ...
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only team that didnt want the chicane put so that everyone can race as they wanted to win, by hook or crook. Ferrari defies the test ban that all other teams have signed.
survival of the fittest ... they had the the tire package which could run the race lenght along with other bridgestone runners ..they grabbed the oppurtunity , they raced ,they won ...like i said earlier they did what was best for the drivers and the team at that point of time ...

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I would say Michael is a cheater, he doesnt let anyone pass easy, and changes his line too often, and is prepared to even crash into the other car if need be, he is not good at overtaking, however he has always been blessed with a fast car, and he knows how to put in fast lap times in a good car consitantly
awww ... even i didnt crib like this when i was 5 ...chill chill just chilll ...

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Michael is a fast driver, but he never will qualify as a great driver in my books no matter what stats show.
whatever rocks your boat buddy !
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Old 25th July 2005, 22:05   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_lover
dont you think a race winning car deserves a race winning driver ?
When Michael wins, its the driver. When he looses its teh car

Quote:
TWICE ... Formula -1 is a team sport .. drivers follow team orders so did barrichello ,they did so because with the ferrari 1-2 schumi would clearly win the championship and either ways wether or not barri came 2nd or 1st they would still bag the same number of points for the constructor ,they did what best suited the team at that time ..agreed its unfair on moral grounds but when you mean business emotions dont matter ..that rule has been abolished now ..
Ferrari is the only team with team orders. Thats why only 2nd class drivers who can act as second fiddle to Michael go to Ferrari. The rule has been abolished only because there was a huge uproar in the press about Michael passing Barichello.

Quote:

he didnt win the championship despite ferrari best efforts ...the wuss couldnt deliver the goods simple ..and now he sits back swears and curses at Schumi ...
!
If you remember he didnt win the championship by 3 points. Had he been the number one driver for the whole year with Ferrari, he would have been the champion. It was only after Schumachers accident in Race 4 that Ferrari started focusing on Irvine.

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he's not struggling ferrari is ..with that car he's still 3rd in the drivers standing !!4 points behind kimi and 16 points ahead of Juan pablo (who happens to be in 2 second a lap quicker car )...
Is this a joke??? When he is not performing its the car thats struggling. When the car is great, than he is the one thats winning. So heads I win, Tales you loose?
He is 4 points behind Kimi as he got 10 points gifted to him at Indianapolis. I think you are the only person who feels that what Ferrari did was right. Please see the huge uproar this caused in International Press where Max Mosley, Bernie Eccelstone and Ferrari were butchered for having a mockery of a race.

Quote:
haha jokes dude ! what has he achieved till now ???the closest he has ever got to the championship is 4th place !he stands 8th this year in a car which is looking much better than the ferraris ...he should get to a position where he can critisize about michael ..
I know he is not a great driver. I never said that. But I just mentioned the fact that I am not the only one who believes that Michael is a dangerous driver and even his own brother agress with me. He says

Quote:

neither does Albers while defending his position buddy ...trulli was fired pretty much
lets not make him sound like an Indian politician...you are being irrational about this ...
It seems you think politics happen only in countries like India. You are not aware or ill informed about the politics in F1. To sight an example when Montoya and Michelin shod teams were doing well in 2003 championship, mid season the rule was changed to measure tyre tread after the race as well. This was done as a complaint was lodged by Ferrari. 8 teams are going to boycott the series in 2008 and start a breakaway series. 9 of 10 teams in Indianapolis thought that the Grand Prix was a mockery. I am not denying that Bridgestone had a better package, the Michelin teams were willing to let the Ferraris and the other Bridgestone team start at front, but only Ferrari objected to this. I think the greater interest of sport was not seen.

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awww ... even i didnt crib like this when i was 5 ...chill chill just chilll ...
Awwww you are cribbing even at your current age... cant imagine what you were like when you were five


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whatever rocks your boat buddy !
Damon Hill, Mika Hakinen, Juan Pablo rock my boat. I am biased
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Old 25th July 2005, 22:27   #42
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man ..firstly i am not a ferrari fan neither am i a michael schumacher fan ..i have never cheered for him in my life ..but at the same time i will not deny he fact that he is not a great driver and has accomplished much more than anyone currently in the grid ...

like you i am a hardcore montoya ,kimi and mclaren fan ...

i never said F-1 is not a team sport ... its the car driver package ...

Quote:
When the car is great, than he is the one thats winning.
doesnt ferrari also bag the constructors championship because of him ?

cant really say much when you confess you are bias ..
..thats your opinion i dont want to add heat to this topic by adding further comments...
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Old 25th July 2005, 23:50   #43
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What cruel luck again for kimi. The championship now is realistically out of reach unless Alonso experiences the bad luck that kimi has seen so far this season. But i really do think Mclaren could get the WCC.

I have no problem with Alonso winning the title but he should win it on merit and not due to someone else's misfortune as we've seen so much in the past. Also, he should stop the finger thing when he has been gifted the victory.

What a race by Montoya though!! 20th to 11th by the end of the first lap without getting involved in any tussles. What the hell is Narain upto nowadays? he seems more interested in off-roading than track racing.

Overall, i'd rate this as Mclaren's worst weekeend so far this season despite the fact that they came away with 8 points in the end. Oh well, at least it wasn't a Ferrari that won!

About the MS issue, it is definitely out of place in this topic. I tend to side with Aseem. Fine, MS has broken most records. But there are quite a few guys out there that could have done the same given the luck and circumstances that Schumacher has enjoyed through his career. I am a Montoya fan but i wouldn't respect him one bit if he was allowed to take his team-mate's car hours before the start of the race 'cos it was handling better than his own....just like MS has done over the years. Hopefully this season will shut up the idiots who claimed that MS could even put a Minardi on pole.
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Old 27th July 2005, 13:43   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
When Michael wins, its the driver. When he looses its teh car


Ferrari is the only team with team orders. Thats why only 2nd class drivers who can act as second fiddle to Michael go to Ferrari. The rule has been abolished only because there was a huge uproar in the press about Michael passing Barichello.


If you remember he didnt win the championship by 3 points. Had he been the number one driver for the whole year with Ferrari, he would have been the champion. It was only after Schumachers accident in Race 4 that Ferrari started focusing on Irvine.


Is this a joke??? When he is not performing its the car thats struggling. When the car is great, than he is the one thats winning. So heads I win, Tales you loose?
He is 4 points behind Kimi as he got 10 points gifted to him at Indianapolis. I think you are the only person who feels that what Ferrari did was right. Please see the huge uproar this caused in International Press where Max Mosley, Bernie Eccelstone and Ferrari were butchered for having a mockery of a race.


I know he is not a great driver. I never said that. But I just mentioned the fact that I am not the only one who believes that Michael is a dangerous driver and even his own brother agress with me. He says


It seems you think politics happen only in countries like India. You are not aware or ill informed about the politics in F1. To sight an example when Montoya and Michelin shod teams were doing well in 2003 championship, mid season the rule was changed to measure tyre tread after the race as well. This was done as a complaint was lodged by Ferrari. 8 teams are going to boycott the series in 2008 and start a breakaway series. 9 of 10 teams in Indianapolis thought that the Grand Prix was a mockery. I am not denying that Bridgestone had a better package, the Michelin teams were willing to let the Ferraris and the other Bridgestone team start at front, but only Ferrari objected to this. I think the greater interest of sport was not seen.



Awwww you are cribbing even at your current age... cant imagine what you were like when you were five




Damon Hill, Mika Hakinen, Juan Pablo rock my boat. I am biased
You seem to be anti Ferrari and MS, but no one has asked you to rate any driver and team now, you don't have to put down a team or driver if you don't like them
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Old 27th July 2005, 21:22   #45
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Originally Posted by sridhar24
You seem to be anti Ferrari and MS, but no one has asked you to rate any driver and team now, you don't have to put down a team or driver if you don't like them
Its not about liking.... I was just stating facts.
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