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Old 25th August 2006, 12:15   #31
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Default Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose, Aryton Senna

I'd say its Senna,

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In 1992 at Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium when during Friday free practice Erik Comas had crashed heavily on the back straight other drivers drove past the wreckage at high speed. Senna could be seen jumping out of his car and while endangering his own life, sprinting down the track to the wrecked car to reach inside and hit the electrics kill switch, to prevent a possible fire.

In 1993 again at Spa-Francorchamps when Alessandro Zanardi crashed his Lotus heavily at Eau Rouge corner, Senna could again be seen jumping out of his car to help the injured driver.
I remember seeing Senna and prost on some sports programs on DD back in 92, not understanding what happenning lol. Schmuck is a close second though

Last edited by aZa : 25th August 2006 at 12:17.
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Old 25th August 2006, 12:39   #32
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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
. Can you tell me which "greats" MS has driven against? .
Would you not call the likes of Nigel Masell, Mika Hakkinen and Kimi great drivers?

I know Kimi has not won muchh, but no one will argue that he is up there with the best in terms of talent
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Old 25th August 2006, 13:45   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami
Would you not call the likes of Nigel Masell, Mika Hakkinen and Kimi great drivers?
When did MS race against Nigel? You have mentioned Mika and Kimi. What about Alonso? But are they "Hall of Fame" material. Even if you consider Mika,Kimi and Alonso, it is difficult to emphatically state that MS was better than them. Mika retired before a meaningful comparison could be made. Kimi has had reliability issues with his car. If MS continues for another couple of years, it could be possible that we will see some great racing and ascertain whether Michael is really as good as he is made out to be. The real clincher would be MS and Kimi in scarlet. would'nt that be appetizing?

MS is like Sachin or Lara, they have the records but the tag for "best ever" goes to Bradman and in F1 racing, Senna.

Himanshu, see if you can get hold of some recordings of Senna racing and you will understand why he is without doubt the best.

Last edited by Floyd de Souza : 25th August 2006 at 13:51.
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Old 25th August 2006, 13:49   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
MS is like Sachin or Lara, they have the records but the tag for "best ever" goes to Bradman and in F1 racing, Senna.
Super... was the best comparison ever!

A legend is made not just based on the number of victories or champioships or records...but by character!!
Senna takes that spot and others can only dream of being like that!
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Old 25th August 2006, 13:57   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza

Himanshu, see if you can get hold of some recordings of Senna racing and you will understand why he is without doubt the best.
No doubt Senna was an all time great! In fact, i have been an avid follower of F1 for nearly 20 years now and it is a rare occassion when I miss watching a race. in fact, I have been lucky to watch the race live at silverstone twice.

At the time, I was a great Senna fan and was quite horrified when I saw him crash. His death was a great blow to F1.

But, with all due respect to senna and his fans ( I am one as well), I feel that the halo around his gratness has grown because of his fatal accident. People tend to look back romantically on heroes who laid down their lives in their pursuit of greatness.

cast your mind back a few years (2002 I think). MS had a horrible accident and fractured his legs. that put him out of racing for a few races.

Then he made a comeback (cant remember which race it was- I think it was the german GP) and prompltly came first with such an emphatic show of all round superiority that all and sundry were gushing about his greatness! U see, for that race MS was an underdog since he came back from a potentially debillitating accident, and went on to comprehensively win- that explains partly the overwhelming emotion people had for him. After a few races, all was forgotten since MS was back to doing what he does best- Win races.

same is for Kimi right now- Everyone sympathises with Kimi becasue of his rotten luck- but if he starts to be as clinical and successful as MS, believe you me there will be more than a few detractors!

This is the way things go my friend!

My final take is - Senna and MS are both greats in their own rights as were fangio, andretti, Moss et al.

let us not demean any one of these greats by tagging one of them the greatest ever.

P.S. same goes for Sachin and Lara. IMHO Dravid is the one who qualifies for teh tag of all time great along with the Don, Sobers and Ponting- but that is another discussion for another thread

Last edited by himanshugoswami : 25th August 2006 at 13:58.
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Old 25th August 2006, 14:11   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

cast your mind back a few years (2002 I think). MS had a horrible accident and fractured his legs. that put him out of racing for a few races.

Then he made a comeback (cant remember which race it was- I think it was the german GP)
Aforesaid incident took place in the year 1999, at silverstone grandprix.

Schumi's comeback race was the penultimate race of the season at sepang, malaysia, where he won emphatically.
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Old 25th August 2006, 14:15   #37
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Friends,

This debate can go on and on. I can only say that because of my age, I have seen what you all probably have'nt.

The day Senna died, the F1 fraternity lost the opportunity to witness the greatest impending duels of all time...that between him and MS. On that fateful day, I was watching the race at Imola on TV and was struck with disbelief at what happened and prayed that Senna would survive but it was'nt to be. A legend was born on that day.
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Old 25th August 2006, 14:49   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
Friends,

This debate can go on and on. I can only say that because of my age, I have seen what you all probably have'nt.

The day Senna died, the F1 fraternity lost the opportunity to witness the greatest impending duels of all time...that between him and MS. On that fateful day, I was watching the race at Imola on TV and was struck with disbelief at what happened and prayed that Senna would survive but it was'nt to be. A legend was born on that day.
Yeah, with you....was rooted to the television for hours altogether and couldn't believe what I was hearing.

Himangshu, no offense meant but I'm surprised that for someone who has been following F1 for 20 years you feel that Senna's greatness has grown because of the way his life ended! Senna's greatness was because of how he was as a driver and an adversary.....not because of how he died.

As someone fortunate (or unfortunate) to have seen both AS & MS (though not from the paddock or track but only on the idiotbox), I am certainly clear in my mind that Senna was & still is...way ahead. MS may catch up with him though if he does hang around for ever & ever and becomes a little more human

Last edited by suman : 25th August 2006 at 14:51.
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Old 25th August 2006, 14:55   #39
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Gilles Villeneuve - the greatest driver ever!!
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Old 25th August 2006, 15:47   #40
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For those who think Senna attained the cult status after his fatal accident, check this out... I remember reading a similar (but better) article somewhere but this was the closest I could locate...

This is what Senna said about his Qualifying times in Monte Carlo (1998). Senna's time was 1:23.998 compared to 1:25.425 of Prost.

Quote:
"I felt as though I was driving in a tunnel. The whole circuit became a tunnel... I had reached such a high level of concentration that it was as if the car and I had become one. Together we were at the maximum. I was giving the car everything - and vice versa.


Suddenly it was as though I had woke up and noticed that I had somehow been on a different level of conciousness. I was really shocked, and I went straight back to the pits - and didn't drive any more that day. I realized that I had been in a kind of unending spiral. Faster and faster, closer and closer to perfection... But also more and more vulnerable, with less and less safety margin...
I didn't allow myself any more [ever again] to go so far that I reached this state again. I can control it before it gets to this point. It's too risky."
Courtesy: Ayrton Senna Memorial (http://users.exis.net/~jnc/nontech/senna.html)

Does one need to say anything else? To me, Senna is the greatest beyond doubt. BTW, I think (correct me if wrong) he was the only F1 driver to lap all the other cars in the field in a race.

Last edited by quicksilver : 25th August 2006 at 15:49.
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Old 25th August 2006, 19:21   #41
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@ all who have been saying that only Senna and not Schumi had a character, had a cult status, raced with GREATS....

I agree to all that Senna was great.... But anyone who says that schumacher lacks all what senna had.... wait for 10yrs after schumacher retires.... You will see for yourself what he is and what he will be remembered for.... Senna's name has been etched in the history books.... His death on the circuit gave him the cult status.... (NOT denying that he was great) But his death really made him a martyr and even his distractors became his afficiandos.....
Schumi is very well here and dominating, competing and beating 10 other teams.... So he will have his opponents and critics trying their best to undermine his greatness.... 10 yrs down the line, when he is happy retired, these very same people will singing his praises.... (coz they wont be biased against their biggest current rival)
That time Alonso and Kimi will also be remembered for their battles against schumi (just like mansell and prost are for senna)
I agree senna was great, but wait schumi is gonna be greater....

Last edited by ess_a : 25th August 2006 at 19:23.
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Old 25th August 2006, 19:34   #42
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Alain Prost fair racing on track
Ayerton Senna crazy driver on wet track
loved to see these two battle it out. rivalry till death.

Nigel mansell
Niki Lauda
M Schumacher owes most of his wins to Barichello and his 94 or 95 crash with Hill speaks for his character to maintain the chapionship.

Last edited by 2fast4u : 25th August 2006 at 19:38.
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Old 25th August 2006, 19:42   #43
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You guys keep on debating about Senna vs Schumacher but for me if I have to pick one driver I would say Juan Manuel Fangio without a doubt.
Just look at his stats
Grands Prix 51
Championships 5
Wins 24
Podium finishes 31
Pole positions 29
Fastest laps 23
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Old 25th August 2006, 19:53   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33
You guys keep on debating about Senna vs Schumacher but for me if I have to pick one driver I would say Juan Manuel Fangio without a doubt.
Just look at his stats
Grands Prix 51
Championships 5
Wins 24
Podium finishes 31
Pole positions 29
Fastest laps 23
Havent seen that guy race.... so cant comment...
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Old 26th August 2006, 00:32   #45
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Michael Schumacher for me.
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