Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Motor-Sports > Int'l Motorsport


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th July 2010, 15:20   #106
BHPian
 
Newpunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 640
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

The main problem with this Team Order was that Massa is not that far back from Alonso for the team to start backing just a single driver. Granted, Massa's chances for the WDC were very less already, but he is still mathematically in the running. If Massa hadn't let Alonso pass, Alonso would only be around 26 points ahead of him right now, which is around 10 points in the old system. That difference is not enough to start backing one driver completely, considering that Alonso has made a lot of mistakes this season already.
Also, for people pointing out Kimi and Massa in 2007 and 2008, we need to remember that Massa and Kimi were already out of the running for the WDC mathematically when this happened in 2007 and 2008 respectively. Here, that is not the case yet.
And for people blaming Smedley for making it look so obvious, Dominecalli should realise that you do not ask the engineer to pass on the news to the driver. Like Coulthard said, whenever there was a team order, the head of the team is the one telling the driver to move over. Considering the close relationship that the drivers share with their engineers, it wasn't a good move to tell Smedley to pass on the decision to Massa. But Dominecalli didn't have the guts to do it and made Smedley do it and Smedley was definitely uncomfortable doing it due to his close relation with Massa.
Newpunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2010, 16:55   #107
BHPian
 
RacingForIndia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 474
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Alonso is a driver who throws his toys out of the pram as soon as he starts feeling the heat.
Used to like that guy, but he is turning out to be the next Michael Schumacher. Atleast MS had more charm than him.
RacingForIndia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2010, 17:26   #108
BHPian
 
Cesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philly, Gurgaon
Posts: 629
Thanked: 251 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post

Those two morons, Massa and Smedley decided to make it clear to the world about what should have a team-affair and inside the team. If he didn't like to move over for Alonso, Massa should have continued racing; instead he put his team in bad light with an intentional maneuver which was very obvious to see for everyone.

Ferrari had the dignity to ask Massa to choose his action but Massa decided to do it dirty. I think Ferrari should have simply cut his revs or warned him about less fuel etc instead of playing it clear with Massa.

Probably Massa would have felt better then!
What you are perhaps forgetting is something called self-respect. People who have dedicated their 24*7 to a sport don't roll over. Try putting yourself in the car Massa was driving and think if you would have rolled over in face of a long sought after win. It is easy sitting here and typing words on a computer keypad.

And dignity is the last thing Ferrari had while asking Massa to move over. I am 100% sure Ferrari would not have had the guts to ask Alonso to move over in a similar situation. Don't forget - Fernando undermined McLaren while at McLaren when his wishes were not met - more precisely when his demands for getting number 1 status within McLaren were not met. That is how Fernando views team loyalty.

Smedley and Massa in fact reacted in a far milder manner than any passionate sportsperson would have reacted while being asked to throw a race (because that's exactly what was asked of them). No sir, they are definitely not morons. That word is more befitting for people called Fernando and Stefano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newpunter View Post
The main problem with this Team Order was that Massa is not that far back from Alonso for the team to start backing just a single driver. Granted, Massa's chances for the WDC were very less already, but he is still mathematically in the running. If Massa hadn't let Alonso pass, Alonso would only be around 26 points ahead of him right now, which is around 10 points in the old system. That difference is not enough to start backing one driver completely, considering that Alonso has made a lot of mistakes this season already.
Exactly. With a 26 point gap all it would have taken for the two to be neck to neck is if Massa won a race and Fernando recorded a DNF. What most of the people are forgetting here is that with Massa out front Ferrari would still have got 42 points - the same they got with Fernando out front. Fernando pressured, Stefano obliged.
Cesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2010, 17:51   #109
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 282 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesc View Post
Exactly. With a 26 point gap all it would have taken for the two to be neck to neck is if Massa won a race and Fernando recorded a DNF. What most of the people are forgetting here is that with Massa out front Ferrari would still have got 42 points - the same they got with Fernando out front. Fernando pressured, Stefano obliged.
+1 ...

Maybe Alonso brings in more sponsorship
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2010, 17:59   #110
BHPian
 
Newpunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 640
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

I think Ferrari were more worried about the long faces, whining and moaning that would come from Alonso if he wasn't let through and preferred facing the wrath of the media and the FIA to watching Alonso whine about feeling alone in the team .
Newpunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2010, 19:35   #111
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,454 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
good bad and ugly.

Atleast it brings the F1 season alive and brings much needed gusto in the season.

cheers,
ac
Rightly said

Else, we would harp on calling F1 for being boring this season.

With such controversies, this season is alive and Kicking.
PAVAN KADAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2010, 23:52   #112
BHPian
 
SchumiFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 849
Thanked: 696 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesc View Post
What you are perhaps forgetting is something called self-respect. People who have dedicated their 24*7 to a sport don't roll over. Try putting yourself in the car Massa was driving and think if you would have rolled over in face of a long sought after win. It is easy sitting here and typing words on a computer keypad.

And dignity is the last thing Ferrari had while asking Massa to move over. I am 100% sure Ferrari would not have had the guts to ask Alonso to move over in a similar situation. Don't forget - Fernando undermined McLaren while at McLaren when his wishes were not met - more precisely when his demands for getting number 1 status within McLaren were not met. That is how Fernando views team loyalty.

Smedley and Massa in fact reacted in a far milder manner than any passionate sportsperson would have reacted while being asked to throw a race (because that's exactly what was asked of them). No sir, they are definitely not morons. That word is more befitting for people called Fernando and Stefano.
Mate, if Massa had an ounce of self-respect,then he would have stayed put in his place and raced with Alonso instead of moving over for Alonso. Ferrari could have cut his revs, botched his pit-stop to send Alonso ahead, if they wanted to. But they decided to play fair and informed Massa that Alonso was faster.

Why did he lift off the throttle after the corner, if he had that much dignity and self respect?
Let us not talk about the reverse situation since it hasn't happened yet. But we did see Alonso staying behind Massa in Australia, China (until he made the pit-lane move) even though he was faster than Massa.

Ferrari have already shown they have no problems supporting either of the drivers if they realistically have a chance with the WDC, when they put Kimi as their lead driver in 2007 and Massa as the lead driver in 2008.

Last edited by SchumiFan : 28th July 2010 at 23:54.
SchumiFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2010, 02:12   #113
Senior - BHPian
 
nitrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UAE/Lon/Madras
Posts: 6,965
Thanked: 267 Times
Default

I think everyone's making a BIG deal out of this.
I see these tactics in almost every other round in one of the pinnacles of motorsports that IS administrated by the FIA.

And nobody minds. Why?
Because it doesn't bring that much money to a few people that the image of the sport matters.

Enjoy the following videos that will show you what happened this year in Jordan.



Virtual spectator mode:
nitrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2010, 07:51   #114
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 121
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

maybe a bit OT, but is Formula1 relayed in HD on any networks in India?
ramkris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2010, 09:31   #115
BHPian
 
dmaheshkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 134
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Michael the great

I am big fan of Michael Schumacher.This year after many criticisms he was very confident in his mind set.

I dont know why Mercedez - a Famous and giant car company cannot build their engines and aero dynamics upto the mark.

After 10 races also the vehicle is behaving not very fast means what they are all up to.But Surely Michael will be in winning mode.....
dmaheshkumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2010, 11:00   #116
BHPian
 
Newpunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 640
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramkris View Post
maybe a bit OT, but is Formula1 relayed in HD on any networks in India?
Star Sports HD shows F1 in HD, but it is only upscaled from SD. Formula 1 doesn't yet broadcast in native HD and Bernie says it won't happen till 2013 atleast. So till then, watching an upscaled version is the best we can do.
Newpunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2010, 11:20   #117
BHPian
 
Cesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philly, Gurgaon
Posts: 629
Thanked: 251 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Ferrari could have cut his revs, botched his pit-stop to send Alonso ahead, if they wanted to.
There is a thing called F1 rule-book. Try looking through that to see if what you are suggesting Ferrari could have done is legal or illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
But they decided to play fair and informed Massa that Alonso was faster.
If team-orders fit into your definition of 'playing fair' then I have absolutely nothing further to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newpunter View Post
I think Ferrari were more worried about the long faces, whining and moaning that would come from Alonso if he wasn't let through and preferred facing the wrath of the media and the FIA to watching Alonso whine about feeling alone in the team

Last edited by Cesc : 29th July 2010 at 11:23.
Cesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2010, 23:25   #118
BHPian
 
SchumiFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 849
Thanked: 696 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesc View Post
There is a thing called F1 rule-book. Try looking through that to see if what you are suggesting Ferrari could have done is legal or illegal. If team-orders fit into your definition of 'playing fair' then I have absolutely nothing further to say.
Mate, the logic of picking up a single sentence from my post and questioning me is a little weird.

Ferrari have given equal importance to both the cars up-to that point of the race in Hockenheim.

Massa was HALF a second slower than Alonso on his preferred soft tires in Qualifying and also in the race couldn't pull away from Alonso even-though he was in fresh air. I believe that if it was the first race of the season, Ferrari would have let them to have the positions and not informed Massa of the Alonso situation.

But it is the second half of the season and there are 4 other drivers fighting for the WDC. The current points structure rewards the winner much more than the old points system and it is very tight in the race to the WDC.

A Ferrari 1-2 either way would maximize their WCC points. But Ferrari would have felt that Alonso was still with a fighting chance to claim the WDC and hence decided to maximize his chance by giving him the place.

Also remember Massa was informed that Alonso was faster. Ferrari made no attempt to control Massa's pace through methods I mentioned in the previous post. It was Massa's own decision to let Alonso through.

So Ferrari did nothing wrong here and don't be quick to slate them.

To top it all, Webber ( the one who has been a victim of team-orders recently) has said Alonso deserved to win:

Please check this link: autosport.com - F1 News: Webber: Alonso deserved German win

Massa had a chance to show he was faster but he couldn't pull over a considerable gap to Alonso and Alonso closed the gap with ease. Ferrari did what they felt was the best for their team and their lead driver in the championship.
And for an analysis of the race, please browse this link:German Grand Prix The key decisions : James Allen on F1 The official website


I end this argument here, if people still think Ferrari did something wrong last Sunday, so be it!

Looking forward to the Hungarian Grand-Prix
SchumiFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2010, 00:00   #119
Senior - BHPian
 
McLaren Rulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mysore
Posts: 2,367
Thanked: 458 Times
Default

To end things off on a lighter note, you just gotta love this headline.
Attached Thumbnails
2010 F1 Germany - Hockenheimring-pf1-headliner.jpg  


Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 30th July 2010 at 00:03.
McLaren Rulez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2010, 08:48   #120
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,454 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
To end things off on a lighter note, you just gotta love this headline.
Most of the newspapers read

" The day i feel i am the No.2 Driver, i am gonna Quit Racing"
PAVAN KADAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2014 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring - Race Thread deetjohn Int'l Motorsport 28 26th July 2014 19:15
2010 Blind Man Car Rally Mumbai. 7th Feb 2010 EDIT: Report & Pics added page 4 Dippy Indian Motorsport 57 3rd June 2010 16:38
2010 Annual Vintage Car Fiesta - EDIT:11th April 2010, confirmed President Vintage Cars & Classics in India 49 14th April 2010 13:36
2010 Mazda 3 or 2010 Civic EX? sids911 Sedans 12 2nd January 2010 00:35


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:16.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks