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Old 1st September 2010, 17:36   #46
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I think the Redbull has problems while following a car too close. Remember Webber's accident with Kovaleinen at Valencia looked almost similar to Vettel's one with Button. I know it's the in thing to criticize Vettel these days but I feel that he shouldn't have been penalized for what was essentially a racing incident. If we start penalizing racing incidents, there would be many drivers who will have to be penalized during every race. A certain Montoya would probably have served drive throughs in almost every race of his career.

On another note, seems like the harsh penalties that Schumi has got this season have taken a toll on his driving. He seemed to have let Sutil and Nico past without putting up any fight. I think a pre Hungary Schumi would have made those drivers work hard for those extra points. Remember 1995 when Schumi on slicks held off Damon Hill on inters for a number of laps on a wet track ? That was some of the best defensive driving i have ever seen. I think the stewards with their harsh penalties have made him too cautious.
Although the stewarding has been much better this season than the past, it is still not very consistent as Hamilton has got off with only simple warnings for clearly breaking rules while other drivers have got much stricter penalties for rules which were not even clear to start off with.
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Old 1st September 2010, 19:05   #47
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Vettel mentioned that he ran over a bump and lost control of the car and hence couldn't stop it from hitting Button.

Even if we agree that Vettel made a mistake and deserves a more severe penalty why isn't there any shout about Ruben Barrichello slamming into Alonso.

Driving at his 300th race and being the most experienced of the lot, I am at loss to explain how he couldn't get the braking spot correct.

Also why wasn't he penalised? Just because Alonso was able to continue?
If Vettel's was a racing incident then Barri's was one too. So he should have been given a 10 place penalty for the next race.
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Old 1st September 2010, 19:22   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newpunter View Post
On another note, seems like the harsh penalties that Schumi has got this season have taken a toll on his driving. He seemed to have let Sutil and Nico past without putting up any fight.
Not necessarily with Sutil.After his pitstop,Sutil rejoined behind Nico and Schumi.While MS and Nico were doing 1.52.xxx on their worn out hard tyres,Sutil was doing 1.50.xxx on his fresh tyres and even set the then fastest lap of the race.

So the Mercedez duo simply had no chance against the Force India car.He went past both MS and Nico easily.

Nico got lucky after the restart.The field was a mix of front runners and lapped cars.MS had to lift off as one of the backmarkers was real slow at a corner and Nico who was running a bit behind him didnt have to do that.So while coming out of the corner,he had the momentum and went past Michael.
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Old 1st September 2010, 19:49   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newpunter View Post
I think the Redbull has problems while following a car too close. Remember Webber's accident with Kovaleinen at Valencia looked almost similar to Vettel's one with Button.
Webber's crash was due to the difference in braking points of the two cars. Heikki braked a lot earlier than what Webber expected.

Quote:
I know it's the in thing to criticize Vettel these days but I feel that he shouldn't have been penalized for what was essentially a racing incident. If we start penalizing racing incidents, there would be many drivers who will have to be penalized during every race. A certain Montoya would probably have served drive throughs in almost every race of his career.
Vettel was penalized because the stewards thought it was an avoidable incident. I think majority would agree with the decision. When you see his history with accidents while chasing others, the penalty is completely justified.
IIRC, Montoya was given a drive through in Indy 2003, for collision with Rubens. Rubens just had a spin, no damage to his car. But it effectively ruined Montoya's WDC chances. I think these days, steward decisions are more or less consistent, much better than earlier.

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Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Vettel mentioned that he ran over a bump and lost control of the car and hence couldn't stop it from hitting Button.

Even if we agree that Vettel made a mistake and deserves a more severe penalty why isn't there any shout about Ruben Barrichello slamming into Alonso.

Driving at his 300th race and being the most experienced of the lot, I am at loss to explain how he couldn't get the braking spot correct.

Also why wasn't he penalised? Just because Alonso was able to continue?
If Vettel's was a racing incident then Barri's was one too. So he should have been given a 10 place penalty for the next race.
There is a difference, Rubens-Alonso crash was on first lap. Generally they don't give drive through penalties for first lap incidents, unless it's an exception. Also if you remember, it was not just Rubens, majority of the field missed the braking point at bus stop in lap 1. It was Alonso's bad luck that Rubens hit him. Rubens wasn't even trying to overtake Alonso in the first place.

Vettel's is a different case, he was in complete control of the car and he wanted to overtake Button. He could have planned and executed the overtake better, which he didn't, so the penalty.

Last edited by SilentEngine : 1st September 2010 at 19:51.
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Old 1st September 2010, 20:33   #50
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Consistent penalites? I think not.

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Old 1st September 2010, 20:51   #51
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Feels strange that Charles Whiting could spot Alonso's jump start immediately without TV replays but didn't notice Massa standing well clear of the line for more than 30 seconds.
I think he is told to target only the other Ferrari, since they don't consider Massa an immediate rival to some of the English Teams on the grid

One more reason to validate Ferrari's instructions in Germany
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Old 1st September 2010, 20:57   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Vettel mentioned that he ran over a bump and lost control of the car and hence couldn't stop it from hitting Button.
A bump that nobody ever hit all weekeend? (if there was ever one)

BTW, part of learning the track is to know where the bumps are.

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Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Also why wasn't he penalised? Just because Alonso was able to continue?
Yes. Barrichello paid the price with his retirement where as Alonso was able to continue unscathed.

..and I think that is absolutely fair and that's how the FIA works.

For example, if Button came out of the incident unscathed and Vettel had to retire, then there would have not been any penalty for him.
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Old 1st September 2010, 21:06   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
A bump that nobody ever hit all weekeend? (if there was ever one)

BTW, part of learning the track is to know where the bumps are.

Yes. Barrichello paid the price with his retirement where as Alonso was able to continue unscathed.

..and I think that is absolutely fair and that's how the FIA works.

For example, if Button came out of the incident unscathed and Vettel had to retire, then there would have not been any penalty for him.

I am waiting for the final race of the season to see how many imitate Barri's stunt. Going by your explanation there shouldn't be any penalty to the offender.

Coming to Vettel's incident, there seems to be more regarding the flexi wings. James Allen has reported that it could be a reason for Vettel's stunt.

I wonder if the RBR is a car or a DaVinci code which is cracked race by race.

Mods: Apologies for not following the twenty minute rule and creating a new post;

Last edited by SchumiFan : 1st September 2010 at 21:08.
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Old 1st September 2010, 21:57   #54
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Looks like Whiting needs a turn on thing for Sunday to punish the drivers!

RB's crash with Alonso, one of the lamest way RB could mess up his 300'th GP.

All the drivers were struggling for grip on the racing line and sliding through the run off area to make it for the next lap. Alonso was late braking into that corner while RB wanted to overtake Alonso on the inside moving away from the racing line where the grip level would be close to NIL when you are on slicks. Not such an immature move on his 300th GP.

I am sure he must have felt embarassed when he crashed out with a stupid move like this.
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Old 4th September 2010, 11:55   #55
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Looks like Massa's wrong start is under investigation.

And hopefully he might go down the order for the last race results, else, expect a negligible penalty for him (Since he's not Schumi)
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Old 4th September 2010, 12:10   #56
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No, the FIA has stated that his 4th place will remain. So maybe he gets fined or gets a "10"place drop for the next race!
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