Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Motor-Sports > Int'l Motorsport


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th November 2010, 19:09   #91
mgh
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 395
Thanked: 33 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post




Ferrari should have just ignored that and concentrated on their own race, after seeing that Webber had come out behind Rosberg and Petrov who had already made their stops. So i still don't understand why they made such a blunder.
If something similar had happened in cricket, people would have started yelling that the match was fixed.

All said and done, Vettel deserved the championship. Ferrari panicked, costing Alonso a chance at the championship.
mgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2010, 19:38   #92
CPH
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 577
Thanked: 33 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Not really. If he had managed to stay behind Button throughout the race, he would have become the champion. P4 was good enough for him. He lost because of the dumbest pit strategy ever executed.


I think next year you will see a much improved Vettel.

I was actually rooting for Webber. But he just crumbled. He had given up even before the qualifying. Statements like "if i don't win, it's not the end of the world" were clear signals that he isn't the one.



Webber pitted because of his potential tyre failure. His right rear tyre had kissed one of the walls. Unfortunately Ferrari team read too much in it and decided to pit both their drivers immediately. Ferrari should have just ignored that and concentrated on their own race, after seeing that Webber had come out behind Rosberg and Petrov who had already made their stops. So i still don't understand why they made such a blunder.
I am by no means a Ferrari fan. To the contrary, I hate the guts of Ferrari. However, the decisions to be made are not as easy as it looks from the arm chair. Hamilton did not understand why Vettel was in front of him after Vettel pitted.

Strategies change during a race. The cars are very close together in performance and often back markers are good for all sort of surprises. Constantly changing conditions need constantlly revisions of the strategy.

The circumstances was an unfavorable constellation of different things and it seemed at the time a decision. As the event went on other situations came up, which did not help.

If Vettel's engine would have gone up in smake, nobody would have questioned Ferrari's strategy.
CPH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2010, 19:44   #93
BHPian
 
KRf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NCR / BLR
Posts: 339
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Well what a twist of fate for Seb Sonic Vettel !

Congratulations to Vettel and RedBull to win the title.

Alonso and Ferrari saw Webber as the only threat and in the process of keeping him behind let the title slip from their hands . That and Alonso's inability to provide any overtaking was the final nail . Though a large part of that can be attributed to the boring circuit which provides almost no overtaking oppertunities . But still , I was expecting the double world champion to hustle the rookie into submission . But lap after lap the move never came . What came was frustration after the race was over .

I also think Alonso was a little negative / defensive towards the race . He should have been wanting to win the race and finish it off and instead he was providing statements like "It would be great to see Massa win the race" and similarly for Hamilton winning the race.

Webber also never stood up and claimed his championship . He should have been up there in pole position or at least P2 but this was a weekend he would want to soon forget . Inadvertently helping Vettel in becoming champion would irritate him more I guess.

Vettel meanwhile was Masterclass . Perfect race pole to victory .Banging in the fastest laps and hoping for the best . The win would be sweeter for Red Bull as they did not have to get into any dirty business to win the title . Im sure they would have been dreading a position in which they would have to use team orders after berating Ferrari for doing so for quite a while .

All in all a Happy Ending! Just like 2007 .
KRf1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2010, 23:06   #94
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chennai
Posts: 698
Thanked: 45 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRf1 View Post
Though a large part of that can be attributed to the boring circuit which provides almost no overtaking oppertunities . But still , I was expecting the double world champion to hustle the rookie into submission
True Fonso could have tried more but still Petrov had nothing big at stake so absolutely no pressure on him. And moreover he is gutsy as seen earlier in this year when he had a duel with Hamilton tucking behind him and giving a fight.

2 Renaults absolutely made sure Alonso and Webber stayed behind them while a Renault powered RBR won the championship. Good advertisement for them!
LandCruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 01:11   #95
BHPian
 
SilentEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mangalore-Bangalore
Posts: 916
Thanked: 108 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
I am by no means a Ferrari fan. To the contrary, I hate the guts of Ferrari. However, the decisions to be made are not as easy as it looks from the arm chair. Hamilton did not understand why Vettel was in front of him after Vettel pitted.

Strategies change during a race. The cars are very close together in performance and often back markers are good for all sort of surprises. Constantly changing conditions need constantlly revisions of the strategy.

The circumstances was an unfavorable constellation of different things and it seemed at the time a decision. As the event went on other situations came up, which did not help.

If Vettel's engine would have gone up in smake, nobody would have questioned Ferrari's strategy.
You are making it sound like the teams are just relying on information what is shown on TV. They have access to much more information than us and the drivers themselves, and they have people on pit wall whose sole purpose is to come up with optimum strategy.
If Hamilton was surprised when Vettel was ahead of him, it was because he didn't know that Vettel did an amazing in lap, a good pit stop and exit. But his team did and that's what they told him on the radio.
All i am saying is that Ferrari pit wall panicked and messed up Alonso's and Massa's race. They saw Webber setting a fast lap after overtaking Jamie Algeursuari and panicked. So they first pitted Massa to see if he can jump Webber. That failed and he got stuck behind the Torro Rosso for rest of the race. Then they pitted Alonso as well to seal his fate. What they missed was the fact that Webber was already behind Rosberg and Petrov on track. Even if one assumes Webber overtakes both of them and jumps Alonso, even then Alonso would still be the winner, because there was no way Webber could have finished ahead of the McLarens.
Anyway i am off this discussion, as i am happy with the race result
SilentEngine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 02:49   #96
CPH
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 577
Thanked: 33 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
You are making it sound like the teams are just relying on information what is shown on TV. They have access to much more information than us and the drivers themselves, and they have people on pit wall whose sole purpose is to come up with optimum strategy.
If Hamilton was surprised when Vettel was ahead of him, it was because he didn't know that Vettel did an amazing in lap, a good pit stop and exit. But his team did and that's what they told him on the radio.
All i am saying is that Ferrari pit wall panicked and messed up Alonso's and Massa's race. They saw Webber setting a fast lap after overtaking Jamie Algeursuari and panicked. So they first pitted Massa to see if he can jump Webber. That failed and he got stuck behind the Torro Rosso for rest of the race. Then they pitted Alonso as well to seal his fate. What they missed was the fact that Webber was already behind Rosberg and Petrov on track. Even if one assumes Webber overtakes both of them and jumps Alonso, even then Alonso would still be the winner, because there was no way Webber could have finished ahead of the McLarens.
Anyway i am off this discussion, as i am happy with the race result
I do not speak from theory. And neither am I a spotty 16 year old. I have done race support as well as being in charge for a team on a much lower level.

When you have to deal with 150+ data inputs from each of your own cars, changing circumstances that might affect your set up, safety car incidents, the other 20 cars and their position and unpredictable other situations like the tyre wear prob;em that then seemed to have solved itself unexpectedly - then you are dealing with an amount of data that need time to be eveluated, which in most cases is not available. This is where humans come into the equation having to make decisions.

In my books the best strategist over the past 20 years is Ross Brawn and he made some decisions that did not lead to the results hoped for. The question we never will be able to answer is: What if...

Other factors would have come in and it might have worked better or even worse.

As mentione before I am by no means in love with Ferrari, but I respect the skills of engineers and other specialists.
CPH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 05:45   #97
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,428
Thanked: 1,676 Times
Default

I think what is even more significant is that Vettel has not only been fighting the best of McLaren and Ferrari but he has been also fighting with the other Redbull which is also the best car out there.

Amazing that he took WDC despite an open battle with teammate until the last race. Kudos to him.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 11:16   #98
BHPian
 
Newpunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 640
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

I'm happy Vettel won the WDC in the end. I think he was the best driver throughout the season except for a few costly mistakes. And if not for the reliability issues, he could have wrapped the title some time back. Congrats Vettel for a deserving WDC and hope he cuts down on the mistakes now.
Newpunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 11:50   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
Hatari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 1,568
Thanked: 364 Times
Default

Ferrari have already admitted they erred in focusing on the goings on behind them rather than in front.

that was the key..
although in their defence.. no one could know webber being so far off vettel's pace..
that was shocking!
Hatari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 12:42   #100
BHPian
 
hiren.mistry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bombay, London
Posts: 884
Thanked: 168 Times
Default

Super result for Seb Vettel and RBR. Finally justice has been served.
hiren.mistry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 19:09   #101
BHPian
 
manubhai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 101
Thanked: 31 Times
Default

Amazing result, least likely one...amazing race. Vettel sure looks to be a very long term champion, loved his exuberance & emotion.
manubhai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2010, 19:17   #102
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,991
Thanked: 1,419 Times
Default

I understand that Ferrari's unsuccessful pit strategy with Alonso in this race has now become political with an Italian minister and Montezemolo exchanging public barbs !
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2010, 01:07   #103
BHPian
 
SchumiFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 847
Thanked: 695 Times
Default

Alonso getting quite a bit of stick and deservingly so but one must understand he is also a human and he accepted that he was frustrated. Here is a man who has just seen his WDC hope slip through his hands in the space of 40 laps. Doesn't justify his actions but nothing to be examined under the microscope.

I hope he comes back strong next year with a better car from the beginning of the year and win his first WDC with Ferrari.
SchumiFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2010, 09:44   #104
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,603
Thanked: 138 Times
Default

Heads to roll at Ferrari, Chief Track Engineer who was responsible for the horrendous pitstop strategy likely to be sacked!

More here: Ferrari under fire as the dust settles | Ferrari | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1
finneyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2010, 09:57   #105
BHPian
 
sameerpb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mumbai / Pune
Posts: 144
Thanked: 114 Times
Default

Congrats Vettel and RBR. It was a well deserved victory!

Overall the Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes could not find a pace throughout the season and were at times struggling with the performance issues, on the other hand RBR has reliability issues but they really managed well and they deserved the victory

Race was full of excitement but end of it no great results

Thanks GTO it was good catch
sameerpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 Formula 1 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina Circuit jfxavier Int'l Motorsport 11 30th November 2015 17:34
2014 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina Circuit - Season Finale deetjohn Int'l Motorsport 38 26th November 2014 11:32
2013 - Abu Dhabi F1 @ Yas Marina Circuit PAVAN KADAM Int'l Motorsport 22 4th November 2013 19:43
2012 F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand prix - Yas Marina Circuit PAVAN KADAM Int'l Motorsport 143 14th November 2012 09:01
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2011...championship decided, boon or bane? MaserQ Int'l Motorsport 10 14th November 2011 15:37


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:49.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks