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Old 9th December 2010, 16:25   #76
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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I am not a fan of the Scuderia, for me Iceman + Silver Arrows was still the dream team for the 5 years they were together
I agree wholeheartedly. I still have my McLaren-Kimi cap and shirt in storage just in case....
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Old 9th December 2010, 17:59   #77
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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I agree wholeheartedly. I still have my McLaren-Kimi cap and shirt in storage just in case....
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I am not a fan of the Scuderia, for me Iceman + Silver Arrows was still the dream team for the 5 years they were together
.
Yet the first year with Ferrari was the only Championship winning car and best season in finishing position he had! :-)

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I really do not believe this is right because 3 of the wins Alonso had was inherited due to other problems (Bahrain and Korea cause of vettel failure to win due to faulty equipment) or Massa moving over
so if you view 2 wins through the season and most importantly he was unable to overtake a rookie in a inferior car makes it more contentious (petrov in last race). Above all his pretty sad gesture at the end made him look like an idiot.
I was there live watching the race! Trust me - Abu Dhabi is one of the most limited overtaking opportunities track! and the Renault engine is ok in the straight line. Having said that - Petrov drove the race of his life to fight and convince the team bosses for a race seat next season! It was a Ferrari team tactical error to pit both cars to cover Webber - they shouldve seen how Webber and Massa do in traffic before pitting Alonso! But thats water under the bridge. Looking at Alonso's performance v/s Massa in the same car - gives you the perspective that he was actually leading the championship going in to the last race by 11 points (or was it 15)! and this poll was with team bosses who have paid millions to hire Messrs Vettel, Webber, Button, Lewis etc., - that should put things in perspective.
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Plus read my signature
Love the signature, Kimi was obviously a colorful character to have on the grid! Loved him for his personality! I still remember him getting out of Malaysia before the rain stopped race was red flagged and having an icecream on TV!

Last edited by Zensi : 9th December 2010 at 18:04.
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Old 9th December 2010, 18:22   #78
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

Did anyone read in TOI

Renault will pay for Alonso's mistake.

Renault has been handed a heavy fine and are supposed to pay a HUGE COMPENSATION to Piquet Jr. for 2009's crashgate which facilitated Alonso's win.

Once a cry baby, always a cry baby.
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Old 9th December 2010, 18:47   #79
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Yet the first year with Ferrari was the only Championship winning car and best season in finishing position he had! :-)
However it was not the best car on the grid, which was arguably the one in red and silver. In a season when Mclaren had new drivers, who helped develop the car in 2006 ? De la Rosa , Gary Paffett ? Montoya ??

And considering that the red car would have been developed keeping in mind Schumacher and Massa, how did he manage to win the most no. of races in that season ? Clearly here is a driver who does not get his due (he is not out to change that opinion either)


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Love the signature, Kimi was obviously a colorful character to have on the grid! Loved him for his personality! I still remember him getting out of Malaysia before the rain stopped race was red flagged and having an icecream on TV!
Unfortunately these are the bits which get highlighted as a bad work ethic, the decision on the tyres was not his, yet there was almost no ranting of the kind like Hamilton or Alonso.

He never could get out of the win or bust mode of racing, I used to watch in horror at his Mclaren destroying itself only to see Alonso coolly collecting the bonuses in 2005.

I guess all this is way way OT. I hope you guys dont mind
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Old 9th December 2010, 19:01   #80
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Did anyone read in TOI

Renault will pay for Alonso's mistake.

Renault has been handed a heavy fine and are supposed to pay a HUGE COMPENSATION to Piquet Jr. for 2009's crashgate which facilitated Alonso's win.

Once a cry baby, always a cry baby.
How would it be Alonso's mistake if it was contrived by Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds to keep Alonso in Renault ?
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Old 9th December 2010, 20:55   #81
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

Latest development.

Formula 1

Force India gets Nico Hulkenberg

But whom is he teaming with in the team. Is Sutil IN or OUT.......?
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Old 9th December 2010, 22:01   #82
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Latest development.

Formula 1

Force India gets Nico Hulkenberg

But whom is he teaming with in the team. Is Sutil IN or OUT.......?
Hang on, he is just saying that his best shot is to get a seat in FI. It's no way guaranteed. But he will be a good choice anyway. Sutil will either stay in FI or go to Renault (if Renault wants him). Liuzzi will stay if Sutil goes.

Last edited by SilentEngine : 9th December 2010 at 22:14.
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Old 10th December 2010, 01:03   #83
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Latest development.

Formula 1

Force India gets Nico Hulkenberg

But whom is he teaming with in the team. Is Sutil IN or OUT.......?
Incorrect interpretation - Hulkenberg is saying - FI is his best chance not the other way round! However he would be a better choice than Luizzi and most likely replacement if at all.

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How would it be Alonso's mistake if it was contrived by Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds to keep Alonso in Renault ?
Agree completely - Alonso knew NOTHING about it and was proven in court and hence you see Flavio and Symonds - 2 F1 veterans not involved with the sport anymore.
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Old 10th December 2010, 01:12   #84
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
However it was not the best car on the grid, which was arguably the one in red and silver. In a season when Mclaren had new drivers, who helped develop the car in 2006 ? De la Rosa , Gary Paffett ? Montoya ??

And considering that the red car would have been developed keeping in mind Schumacher and Massa, how did he manage to win the most no. of races in that season ? Clearly here is a driver who does not get his due (he is not out to change that opinion either)
Do not agree - Schumi was retiring in 2006 - the decision was taken very early in the season - announced publicly after he won in Monza but was only concentrating on winning 2006 championship which he lost by a whisker unfortunately due to the Suzuka Ferrari engine blowout while leading the race :(
So the car couldnt have been built around him for sure, Kimi won in 2007 because Ron Dennis couldnt handle Lewis and Alonso together in the same team! Lewis was leading Kimi by 17 points with 3 races to go! It was more of a case of McLaren loosing the championship, the Stepneygate which rocked them and set McLaren back by 100M$ (Fines) and stripped of all points - thats the reason Lewis had car number 22 in 2008 despite finishing 2nd or was it 3rd overall.

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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
Unfortunately these are the bits which get highlighted as a bad work ethic, the decision on the tyres was not his, yet there was almost no ranting of the kind like Hamilton or Alonso.

He never could get out of the win or bust mode of racing, I used to watch in horror at his Mclaren destroying itself only to see Alonso coolly collecting the bonuses in 2005.

I guess all this is way way OT. I hope you guys dont mind
there is no doubt he was a fast driver but he was a car breaker - he could nurse the car to victory the way schumi could or even Alonso can. He was also notoriously disconnected to engineers and known for not contributing to developing the car - due to lack of technical understanding. Doesnt take away from the fact he was an awesome and fast driver but F1 needs more than that, like an Alonso today or Schumi earlier to work on track, off track and in the factory together with the engineers! Kimi was busy partying away from the track :-) But i liked him for being a real person!
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Old 10th December 2010, 10:57   #85
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Originally Posted by Zensi View Post
there is no doubt he was a fast driver but he was a car breaker - he could nurse the car to victory the way schumi could or even Alonso can. He was also notoriously disconnected to engineers and known for not contributing to developing the car - due to lack of technical understanding. Doesnt take away from the fact he was an awesome and fast driver but F1 needs more than that, like an Alonso today or Schumi earlier to work on track, off track and in the factory together with the engineers! Kimi was busy partying away from the track :-) But i liked him for being a real person!
That is far from the truth. In fact, those who have worked with him give a completely different picture.
The fact is that, he came straight into Ferrari and won a championship in first year, while fighting a teammate who had equal opportunity. Alonso on the other hand hasn't been able to do that, even with the help of a designated no.2 driver. Whether McLaren threw away their chances or not, is not Kimi's problem. He had to be there to take those vital wins in the end. He won more races in 2007, scored more points than the rest.
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Old 10th December 2010, 10:59   #86
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Do not agree - Schumi was retiring in 2006 - the decision was taken very early in the season - announced publicly after he won in Monza but was only concentrating on winning 2006 championship which he lost by a whisker unfortunately due to the Suzuka Ferrari engine blowout while leading the race :(

So the car couldnt have been built around him for sure
Schumi was retiring after 2006, yet there was no way that Kimi could have done anything about the 2007 car until Dec or Jan ( I dont remember his first test) since his Mclaren contract was sewn up like that. Similarly for Alonso.

Plus, here was a driver literally brought up on a car moulded around Michelin for the majority of this F1 career adapt to a car moulded around the Bridgestones.

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Kimi won in 2007 because Ron Dennis couldnt handle Lewis and Alonso together in the same team!
I wasn't talking about how Kimi won the championship, I was referring to how he managed to win the most races, may be Shanghai was a bit of a gift from Hamilton , this was for the point about the strongest car on the grid in terms of reliability and speed.

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there is no doubt he was a fast driver but he was a car breaker - he could nurse the car to victory the way schumi could or even Alonso can.
Agree, where Alonso could be called a banker, Kimi was a racer/gambler. The worst/best example was the stupid action with Villeneuve at Nurburgring in 2005 and then the DNF.

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He was also notoriously disconnected to engineers and known for not contributing to developing the car - due to lack of technical understanding.
Admittedly this is the most popular view, however there are several official quotes from both Mclaren and Ferrari engineers that even though not technical like Alonso or Schumacher, he was very quick in grasping the changes and his feedback though brief was very accurate.

Some quotes indicate that where Michael used to rerun the telemetry data over and over,Kimi just required very little time to look at the data and could make the changes to improve the lap times.

Last edited by indivic : 10th December 2010 at 11:00.
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Old 10th December 2010, 13:34   #87
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

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Yet the first year with Ferrari was the only Championship winning car and best season in finishing position he had! :-)
Anyone who watched his driving in 2003 and 2005 will whole-heartedly agree that he was just as deserving of the championship on those occasions. It was always the McLaren car that let him down and eventually, frustrated with that he switched to Ferrari

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Originally Posted by Zensi View Post
Kimi won in 2007 because Ron Dennis couldnt handle Lewis and Alonso together in the same team! Lewis was leading Kimi by 17 points with 3 races to go! It was more of a case of McLaren loosing the championship, the Stepneygate which rocked them and set McLaren back by 100M$ (Fines) and stripped of all points - thats the reason Lewis had car number 22 in 2008 despite finishing 2nd or was it 3rd overall.



there is no doubt he was a fast driver but he was a car breaker - he could nurse the car to victory the way schumi could or even Alonso can. He was also notoriously disconnected to engineers and known for not contributing to developing the car - due to lack of technical understanding. Doesnt take away from the fact he was an awesome and fast driver but F1 needs more than that, like an Alonso today or Schumi earlier to work on track, off track and in the factory together with the engineers! Kimi was busy partying away from the track :-) But i liked him for being a real person!
Lewis and McLaren came under immense pressure from Raikkonen and threw away their championship. In China, they had to gamble with the tyres cos Kimi was catching Lewis fast and that resulted in the spin. Same in Brazil, Hamilton buckled under pressure and botched his race. That was due to a fantastic end to the season from Kimi and Ferrari

Also, there have been numerous instances where engineers have said that despite his aloof and dont-care attitude, the driver Kimi is quite different and his feedback and car development is exceptional.

It just doesnt show outside like Schumacher's or Hamilton's relationships but McLaren was every bit Kimi's team.

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That is far from the truth. In fact, those who have worked with him give a completely different picture.
The fact is that, he came straight into Ferrari and won a championship in first year, while fighting a teammate who had equal opportunity. Alonso on the other hand hasn't been able to do that, even with the help of a designated no.2 driver. Whether McLaren threw away their chances or not, is not Kimi's problem. He had to be there to take those vital wins in the end. He won more races in 2007, scored more points than the rest.
Well said!

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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
Schumi was retiring after 2006, yet there was no way that Kimi could have done anything about the 2007 car until Dec or Jan ( I dont remember his first test) since his Mclaren contract was sewn up like that. Similarly for Alonso.

Plus, here was a driver literally brought up on a car moulded around Michelin for the majority of this F1 career adapt to a car moulded around the Bridgestones.



I wasn't talking about how Kimi won the championship, I was referring to how he managed to win the most races, may be Shanghai was a bit of a gift from Hamilton , this was for the point about the strongest car on the grid in terms of reliability and speed.



Agree, where Alonso could be called a banker, Kimi was a racer/gambler. The worst/best example was the stupid action with Villeneuve at Nurburgring in 2005 and then the DNF.



Admittedly this is the most popular view, however there are several official quotes from both Mclaren and Ferrari engineers that even though not technical like Alonso or Schumacher, he was very quick in grasping the changes and his feedback though brief was very accurate.

Some quotes indicate that where Michael used to rerun the telemetry data over and over,Kimi just required very little time to look at the data and could make the changes to improve the lap times.
Yes i read this too. His analysis was apparently terrific
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Old 10th December 2010, 13:48   #88
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

@ Folks, I would love to discuss Kimi but not this thread! Lets leave this for F1 2011
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Old 10th December 2010, 16:31   #89
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

^ ^ Agree.
HRT is on SALE.

Another one bites the dust. The FIA are being too greedy, allowing financially unsound parties into F1. Very bad for the sport.
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Old 10th December 2010, 16:53   #90
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Default Re: Formula1 - PreSeason Discussion Thread 2011

The FIA is set to approve the new rules for 2011 and 2013 today.
For 2011, the FIA is set to approve the Moveable front wings and the return of KERS.

From 2013 onwards, F1 will move to newer engines which would be 1.6 litre turbo engines with energy recovery systems and fuel restrictions, with aim or increasing the efficiency by upto 50%. However, the power output will be the same as the current engines which is around 750BHp. Ferrari and Mercedes were the only engine manufacturers who were against these rule changes ( as new kind of engines increase development costs ) till recently but they have been convinced now and the FIA is set to approve those rules today.
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