Hi - from Delhi

[iraghava]

Welcome to the forum Abhijit! I remember reading an article about your forum a while back in TOI & thought well, this is an interesting forum that I should visit! But as usual once I got off the throne I completely forgot about it!

Anyway, as for my gun credentials my father used to own a Colt .32" revolver long back which was sold off before I could even understand what it was & so have no recollection of seeing it! (He carried it back with him from Canada in the early '80's when it was still allowed I think!) And currently my mother owns a .32" IOF revolver which I use for target practice every now & then to make sure it works fine! Also, my dearest uncle has a IOF revolver & a S&W which he's been wanting to gift to me for a while but I've been resisting it as I don't think I still have the maturity to handle firearms in a hot-headed situation.

Enough of the rant! Looking forward to seeing you around here! And do inform us if you guys have some meets in Delhi, I'm sure lots of us would be interested in attending.

Originally Posted by awini

Really!!?? i thought it would be worth a lakh or so at most!! time to get my dad's PPK transfered to my name... he also has a webley .22 lr revolver with an 8 inch barrel, and a couple of .22 rifles, a BSA bolt action and a Winchester pump action. plus a couple of webley .32s a pistol, similar to RAF issue, and a revolver with a 6inch barrel.

Oh man! Now I have to see these on my next visit man!

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by faithless_1984

Hey welcome aboard Abhijeet.!

Donno why but i have always been crazy about guns ,had a huge collection when i was a child (read teenager lol) but only toy guns. :(
There are some guns in my family which are owned by my grandfather and uncles ,some double barrel and some handguns.
I personally like handguns.


Well have a pleasant stay here.


Cheers

The really great thing about shooting is, that it's never too late to start shooting! Just last year I had the chance to try out sporting clays for the first time (this was in the UK) and an elderly lady on a wheelchair (must be over 70 if a day!) was doing the same round as me... she outshot me by a mile! It was a humbling experience, which reminded me of just how "open" this sport is... age & sex is really irrelevant in shooting, in fact it might pain the macho sorts to learn that in certain disciplines women regularly outshoot men

Anyhow, for the vast majority of people who enjoy guns & shooting - competitions are really not a consideration, neither should they be! A day at the range, some friendly banter and a good time with friends... that's what it is most of the time... the only thing to keep in mind is, unlike other sporting equipment, guns if handled irresponsibly can cause serious harm - so a degree of common sense and maturity is required. That said, almost everyone has both; they just don't know it! I've seen little pre-teens handle firearms in a proper and safe manner! Training and common sense, that's all it takes... Of course in the Indian scenario it helps a lot if you have deep pockets, ammo here costs several times of it's cost overseas and the prices of (legal) guns will make you weep!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by awini

Really!!?? i thought it would be worth a lakh or so at most!! time to get my dad's PPK transfered to my name... he also has a webley .22 lr revolver with an 8 inch barrel, and a couple of .22 rifles, a BSA bolt action and a Winchester pump action. plus a couple of webley .32s a pistol, similar to RAF issue, and a revolver with a 6inch barrel.

Well, some years back your estimate would not have been far off. Dial back even 5 years and the Indian buyers preference was revolvers, with semi-auto pistols getting a step-motherly treatment. But now, the Indian buyer has developed a sudden taste for semi-auto pistols, especially ones with high capacity magazines (blame Hollywood/ Bollywood for this craze)... Just 4 years back my maternal uncle picked up a CZ 83 (in .32 ACP) for 1.5 lacs and now these pistols are being offered at circa 8 lacs! So if you have a .22 PPK or PPK/S with a 10 shot magazine it's worth a pretty penny indeed (though I don't rate the gun very highly myself). BTW - you've mentioned quite a few guns on your dad's name, you may not know but there is a legal limit of 3 arms licenses per person now - so in all probability the rest of them are in your Mom's or someone else's name. There were some RAF issued 1911A1'a chambered for the .455 webley pistol cartridge, in good condition these are quite collectible (though not in India, where they would be worth less than scrap)... the usual GI issue 1911's were chambered for the .45 ACP, which is what made these unusual and collectible... there were of course the regular .455 Webley revolvers but these are not as collectible as they were quite common, though one in exceptional condition could be worth something. The Webley .32 pistol you mention is probably a Webley .32 revolver (a revolving pistol)... not uncommon in the ex-colonial countries and should go for around circa 1.5 lacs if it is in good nick.

Do you know the model of the Winchester pump action? They did make one extremely exceptional pump action model (the model 12)...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Welcome to the forum Abhijit! I remember reading an article about your forum a while back in TOI & thought well, this is an interesting forum that I should visit! But as usual once I got off the throne I completely forgot about it!

Anyway, as for my gun credentials my father used to own a Colt .32" revolver long back which was sold off before I could even understand what it was & so have no recollection of seeing it! (He carried it back with him from Canada in the early '80's when it was still allowed I think!) And currently my mother owns a .32" IOF revolver which I use for target practice every now & then to make sure it works fine! Also, my dearest uncle has a IOF revolver & a S&W which he's been wanting to gift to me for a while but I've been resisting it as I don't think I still have the maturity to handle firearms in a hot-headed situation.

Enough of the rant! Looking forward to seeing you around here! And do inform us if you guys have some meets in Delhi, I'm sure lots of us would be interested in attending.

Oh man! Now I have to see these on my next visit man!

Unfortunately it is a common misconception about firearms, that they can "precipitate" a situation. But if you adhere to the 4 rules of firearms safety (as anyone should), there is no way that this could happen. For your benefit I'm posting the four rules below -

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

Good training means that these 4 rules are an instinctive part of you, something like muscle memory... I know enough gun owners to be able to say for a fact that without exception they are responsible and sensible people.

It is strange that we often forget that more people in India die due to road accidents than they do from gunshot injuries (we have the highest rate of accidental deaths per km of highway travelled in the world!), this even though the UN claims that we have 40 million guns in India! In spite of this I have yet to see an Indian getting behind the wheel of his car after a few drinks, worrying about whether or not it is entirely safe for him to be on the road in that state... So who is more responsible? Gun owners or car owners?

If you are worried about whether or not you have the maturity to handle a gun, you are probably almost ready to become a responsible gun owner... the people who worry me are the self-entitled idiots... So pick up your uncle's S&W, if it's in good condition is should be worth at least 3 lacs at current prices... if it's NIB (new in the box) condition (with the box etc. intact) it could go for as high as 4.5 lacs...

We do meet from time to time... though not everyone is always available and/ or attends (as is to be expected). Most meetings are notified in advance on the forum...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Rehaan]

Great information Abhijeet!

FYI - Intro threads automatically lock after a few weeks, so if this is going to turn out to be an ongoing discussion, it would be best to start a new thread.

cya
R

[shuvd]

Hello and welcome to TeamBHP Abhijeet!
I've visited your forum quite a few times. Needless to say, I love guns. As a kid I did have a huge collection of BB guns (still have a few!). Don't own a real one yet, but I intend to! The NP bores don't excite me though. I would prefer a wide body Para Ord/ 10mm Delta Elite/.50 AE Desert Eagle or at least a 9mil semi-auto.

Hope you have a nice time here at TeamBHP.

[ram_hyundai]

abhi,its a good piece of information and you seem to be knowing too much on the subject.can we have a new thread on this as reehan said.welcome aboard abhi.
ram

[Steeroid]

Welcome, Abhijeet. Just went through your rather impressive site & forum - I think you'll feel at home out here.

[awini]

Originally Posted by abhijeet

The Webley .32 pistol you mention is probably a Webley .32 revolver (a revolving pistol)...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

no its a pistol,like this one.

[url=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=516&i=websctzv2.jpg][IMG]

i too dont care much for pistols, i prefer revolvers. in fact i like the .22 long barrel revolver more than the PPK. there was my grandfather's S/W? .32 revolver which is now with my brother, its a really small 5 shot revolver, it doesnt even have the pull back hammer at the back.

[Samurai]

Welcome Abhijeet, I remember reading your website long back.

I haven't fired a bullet since my NCC days, and that was mostly with lee enfield .303 rifle. My family does have a gun, my grandfather's musket gun. I never dared to fire it since nobody was willing to teach me exactly how much powder to use. Knowing the dangers of incorrect usage, I didn't experiment either. Besides, it is getting rusted like nobodies business.

Living in a rural setting, I would like to own a gun, not a handgun though. But the process of handing it over to police during elections or other hot situations, doesn't appeal to me. So I make do with my non-firearm martial arts weapons for now.

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by shuvd

Hello and welcome to TeamBHP Abhijeet!
I've visited your forum quite a few times. Needless to say, I love guns. As a kid I did have a huge collection of BB guns (still have a few!). Don't own a real one yet, but I intend to! The NP bores don't excite me though. I would prefer a wide body Para Ord/ 10mm Delta Elite/.50 AE Desert Eagle or at least a 9mil semi-auto.

Hope you have a nice time here at TeamBHP.

Thank you for the welcome Shuvd Except for the following which are Prohibited Bores (PB) as they can fire "service ammunition":-

1. 9x19 mm aka 9 Parabellum aka 9 Luger
2. the 9mm Largo (by virtue of guns chambered for it being able to fire the 9x19mm ammo)
3. the .455 Webley (rimmed revolver cartridge)
4. the .38/200 and the .38 S&W
5. the .45 ACP

All the other handgun calibres are classified as Non-prohibited bores. This would include amongst others the .32 ACP, .32 S&W Long, .22 LR, .22 short, .25 ACP, .22 WMR, .357 S&W Magnum, .38 S&W Special, .45 Long Colt, .44 S&W Magnum, .38 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm Kurz (short) aka .380, etc. etc. It is a popular myth that all calibres over .38 are classified as PB in India.

The actual classification as PB is based on whether or not they are in "service" with the security forces (military/ police), it is ONLY these "service calibres" which are classified as PB - a practice dating back to 1907 when the British did not entirely trust their native troops not to black market service ammo, that combined with the fact that they did not want captured government arms to be used against them, led them to classify all service calibres as restricted/ prohibited for general civilian use. An entirely stupid and worthless restriction that doesn't achieve it's stated goals!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[abhijeet]

Thank you for the welcome ram, steer and samurai

Originally Posted by Samurai

I haven't fired a bullet since my NCC days, and that was mostly with lee enfield .303 rifle. My family does have a gun, my grandfather's musket gun. I never dared to fire it since nobody was willing to teach me exactly how much powder to use. Knowing the dangers of incorrect usage, I didn't experiment either. Besides, it is getting rusted like nobodies business.

Have the muzzle loader looked at by a competent gunsmith, and repaired if possible. Muzzle loaders do require a bit more knowledge/ training than cartridge firearms, but they can be a load of fun to shoot! So don't sell yourself short, there are books on the subject and many active online forums of people who are completely into black powder guns, read up and PLEASE don't let a fine gun go to pot! At least oil it from time to time...

Originally Posted by Samurai

Living in a rural setting, I would like to own a gun, not a handgun though. But the process of handing it over to police during elections or other hot situations, doesn't appeal to me. So I make do with my non-firearm martial arts weapons for now.

I personally find shotguns to be very versatile and suited for rural life... they make for very effective home defence guns and can also be used for crop protection if need be. Decent Indian made single barrel shotguns start at around INR 5,000/- so they are not much more expensive than airguns... of course for an imported double barrel in good condition you will end up paying a lot lot more, but what I'm trying to say is that the entry barrier is not that high.

Another very versatile gun is the lowly .22 LR rifle. It's very flexible in it's use, the cheapest powder burner to shoot (asides from muzzle loaders), and you can get a new IOF made one for crica INR 30k. It's not particularly well suited for self/ home defence though, due mainly to it's inherent lack of power.

As to the requirement of depositing your guns during elections, members of NRAI are exempted from deposit of arms /ammunitions by election commission's standing instructions vide letter No. 437/GE-99/PLN-III/MCC dated 28-07-1999. In Bihar there was a PIL on this matter after which people are exempted from depositindg arms/ammunitions (Md.Khursid Alam Vs. The chief election commision, The state of Bihar, you can find it in PLJR 1995.vol 1,pg.683). A similar judgement was handed out by the Allahabad High Court, more on that at Indians For Guns - Firearms' deposit: HC clips SHOs' role

Therefore there is simply a need for people to take initiative and challenge the order in court, in stead of just meekly obeying unjustified orders of the administration.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by awini

no its a pistol,like this one.

i too dont care much for pistols, i prefer revolvers. in fact i like the .22 long barrel revolver more than the PPK. there was my grandfather's S/W? .32 revolver which is now with my brother, its a really small 5 shot revolver, it doesnt even have the pull back hammer at the back.

Ah-ok, don't see too many of these around... Webley did make semi-autos between 1905 and 1940, but they are not very highly rated. I prefer pistols myself... revolvers vs. semi-auto pistols is a decades old debate with no clear conclusions, yet!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Samurai]

Thanks for the info Abhijeet, I might put that to use.

Meanwhile, something weird happened. I was googling for some new info on Trax Gurkha and I ran into a thread on Gurkha in your Indians for Guns forum. Even you had posted in that thread. Of course, they had much less info on the current generation of Gurkha, so I was thinking may be I should ask you to point them to Team-BHP for the latest developments. Then I ran into a photograph of Gurkha taken by me, without any credit. I normally don't put water-mark on my photos since they spoil the photo.

Indians For Guns - Tempo Gurkha 4x4

Kindly point them to the original article link below from where the photo was taken. That way they will get the latest info on the Gurkha too. Thank you in advance.

Gurkha Test Drive on Horrible roads and Off-road too

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Thanks for the info Abhijeet, I might put that to use.

Meanwhile, something weird happened. I was googling for some new info on Trax Gurkha and I ran into a thread on Gurkha in your Indians for Guns forum. Even you had posted in that thread. Of course, they had much less info on the current generation of Gurkha, so I was thinking may be I should ask you to point them to Team-BHP for the latest developments. Then I ran into a photograph of Gurkha taken by me, without any credit. I normally don't put water-mark on my photos since they spoil the photo.

Indians For Guns - Tempo Gurkha 4x4

Kindly point them to the original article link below from where the photo was taken. That way they will get the latest info on the Gurkha too. Thank you in advance.

Gurkha Test Drive on Horrible roads and Off-road too

Samurai, I've just taken care of the oversight mentioned above. BTW -good article... going through it right now

Cheers!
Abhijeet