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Old 21st July 2011, 11:34   #16
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Default Re: Manza at 35k km's

Manza clocked 35k km's in 18th month of ownership. Since my last oil change at TASS was at 15k km's, had to change oil at TASS to keep the warranty intact. Got engine oil (Selenia WR 5W40), oil filter and air filter replaced yesterday. Total cost 2.8k.

So the total Maintenance Cost so far at 35k km's:

1. 15k km Oil + Filter change - 4,100 (At TASS)
2. 20k km free service - 2,300 (At TASS)
3. 25k km Oil + Filter change - 1,000 (Outside)
4. 35k km Oil + Filter change - 1,000 (Outside)
5. 30k km paid service - 1,400 (At TASS)
6. 35k km Oil + Filter change + Air filter - 2,800 (At TASS)

Total of about 12.5k for 35k km's. Apart from this, underbody anti rust treatment costed 2.5k and tires upgrade at 25k km's costed 10.6k.

FE is around 15-16 local with AC and highway around 20.

Next service at 40k km's. Will require only Diesel filter change and general check-up, unless something comes-up. Expected to cost 3k.

Can anyone confirm what's tata's rate for paid service of Manza QJD. The TASS I went to for 30k km paid service charged me 1250+tax. Other I went to yesterday told me 850+tax.

Thank you for reading.
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Old 13th August 2011, 03:25   #17
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

i have a tata indica xeta and have had my share of horror stories with sterling, i might be looking at a manza, will seek further information from you then.
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Old 12th September 2011, 20:54   #18
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Default Re: Manza at 40k km's

Last 5k km's have been rather quick in my manza. With multiple trips between Delhi and Punjab it was in 1 month and 20 days to be precise. Yesterday morning I was at a TASS in Noida for 40k paid service. Jobs to do were - diesel filter change, brake check/ cleaning, fixing of small rattling sound from under the steering, AC filter cleaning and general check-up. Had to change coolant and brake fluid as per the manual (I think there was no need as yet). So did clutch bleeding as well. Jobs were done properly and total cost was 3.5k. Car felt much nice and smooth to drive after the service.

So the total Maintenance Cost so far at 40k km's:

1. 15k km Oil + Filter change - 4,100 (At TASS)
2. 20k km free service - 2,300 (At TASS)
3. 25k km Oil + Filter change - 1,000 (Outside, mineral oil)
4. 30k km Oil + Filter change - 1,000 (Outside, mineral oil)
5. 30k km paid service - 1,400 (At TASS)
6. 35k km Oil + Filter change + Air filter - 2,800 (At TASS)
7. 40k km paid service - 3,500 (At TASS)

Total of about 16k for 40k km's. Apart from this, underbody anti rust treatment costed 2.5k and tires upgrade at 25k km's costed 10.6k.

FE is around 15-16 local with AC and highway around 20. Next service at 50k km's.

Thank you for reading.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 20:32   #19
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Manza is now at 42.7k km's. Last service was at 40k km's and for last 3 weeks or so I was feeling that pickup in my car had reduced a lot and there did not seem to be any difference felt in pickup when I would accelerate from 1200 rpm to 3000 rpm. On highway, I felt the car takes much longer to reach 100 and anything above takes ages. Overtaking had become an issue and busses/ altos were quicker than my car even on full throttle in turbo zone.

Obviously I thought of the worst, a busted turbo.

Gave the car to TASS for them to a full check on this. As usual, with their limited capabilities, they could not find anything wrong and gave the car back to me saying everything is all right.

I had to write to Tata for their intervention and with that the dealer called me saying Manza turbo is made by a co called Turbo Energy and since they are the experts, we will get your car's turbo checked from them. I along with a TASS technician went to Turbo Energy workshop in Punjabi Bagh to get it checked. They checked everything and mentioned that turbo is spinning fine but the waste gate is in stuck position, no movement. The reason for waste gate not working was a failed vacuum modulator which needs to create enough vacuum to enable the turbo waste gate movement. This is a seperate part unrelated to turbo, so turbo is fine. I ensured this was explained to the folks at TASS clearly so they know exactly what to do, instead of trial and error. Car was back at TASS same afternoon and the vacuum modulator was replaced. A 10km test drive on Noida expressway made it obvious that issue is being resolved for good. Of course the part replaced was in warranty and costs about 3k. Car was washed and cleaned (complementary).

Experience at Turbo Energy dealer workshop (Universal Auto Traders) was very good. They knew exactly what to do and in which order to check the turbo, as it was expected of them. Got to know that the turbo for Manza costs abt 32k. MRP is 33.5k and part number etc is available at product catalogue on Turbo Energy website.

My car is back to it's glory, it's quick enough for me to handle local NCR commutes and twice a month Delhi-Punjab trips. Next visit to TASS will be at 50k km's unless something comes up earlier.

Just thought of sharing this experience. Thank you for reading.
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Old 24th October 2011, 00:10   #20
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Very very detailed report, nice work

I too had Santro 2000 model which i sold in 2010. By that time ODO was more than 1,85,000 KMS, no issues at all till around 1,50,000 KMS. No doubt that Santro is a good good quality car.

Congrats for your KID and MANZA , hope you will keep updating the thread.

Ravi
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Old 22nd November 2011, 12:43   #21
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Manza is now at 45.5k km's. No major issues to report as such.

Last oil+filter change was at 34.6k km's at TASS when we filled Selenia WR 5W40. I am planning to get the oil change at my friendly mechanic's place at 47k km's so that the next oil change will again be at TASS at 55k km's.

I am also planning to get the front suspension checked and strut rubber mounts + anti roll bar rubber bushes replaced. Unless my mechanic tells otherwise, I think these parts are due for replacement. Wheel alignment and balancing is also due, so will be done immediately after this.

While at it, will also get brake pads checked (car is on original brake pads), intercooler, cat con & EGR valve cleaned (never did these so far). Will also have him look at gear shifting cables and get them lubricated. Sometimes I feel the shifts are no so smooth as earlier.

All the above I am planning at my trusted mechanic's place in about 10 days time by when the car will be at 47k km's including next weekend 800km trip to punjab. Will update the progress.

You must be wondering why I am not getting these done at TASS at 50k km's service. Actually, in Noida Tata SC's, it's very difficult to get all things done properly, even after spending full day. So the 50k km service at TASS will be bare bone service, only to maintain warranty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Black Santro just crossed 81k km's. No issues to report. Last service was at 77.3k km's in June 11 so the next one will be at about 87k km's or June 12 (whichever is earlier). I think we'll need to get the suspension overhauled at that time. This car is now used only for about ~800km's a month and needs once a year service.

Thank you for reading.
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Old 28th November 2011, 11:10   #22
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Default Re: Manza FE update

I have been calculating cumulative FE of my manza QJD for last 6 tank fulls.

Km's driven - 4,087
Total diesel consumed - 215 ltr
Total cost of diesel - rs.8,600

Average FE for last 4,087 km's = 19kmpl. Average fuel cost per km - rs.2.10

Driving pattern in these ~4k km's have been 60% highway & 40% city. AC usage around 20%. On an average 2 occupants in the car.

Pretty happy with the FE.
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Old 28th November 2011, 19:40   #23
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Amit

You seems to be clocking good miles on the car and thanks for the detailed report which I use as a guide for my Manza. Infer that you are using mobil delvac mx in between regular oil change at TASS. Is my inference right and if yes, do you do a engine flush everytime you change oil at TASS?
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Old 28th November 2011, 22:37   #24
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
Amit

You seems to be clocking good miles on the car and thanks for the detailed report which I use as a guide for my Manza. Infer that you are using mobil delvac mx in between regular oil change at TASS. Is my inference right and if yes, do you do a engine flush everytime you change oil at TASS?
Sridhar,

Yes, I used delvac mx last time from 25 to 35 k km's (two oil changes, one at 25k and then at 30k) and this time I am going to use it from 47k till 55k km's. I have never used engine flush in this car. I believe, it's not needed if you change oil on time/ on km's & engine flush has it's own disadvantages.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 28th November 2011 at 22:39.
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Old 19th December 2011, 11:01   #25
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
Manza is now at 45.5k km's. No major issues to report as such.

Last oil+filter change was at 34.6k km's at TASS when we filled Selenia WR 5W40. I am planning to get the oil change at my friendly mechanic's place at 47k km's so that the next oil change will again be at TASS at 55k km's.

I am also planning to get the front suspension checked and strut rubber mounts + anti roll bar rubber bushes replaced. Unless my mechanic tells otherwise, I think these parts are due for replacement. Wheel alignment and balancing is also due, so will be done immediately after this.

While at it, will also get brake pads checked (car is on original brake pads), intercooler, cat con & EGR valve cleaned (never did these so far). Will also have him look at gear shifting cables and get them lubricated. Sometimes I feel the shifts are no so smooth as earlier.

All the above I am planning at my trusted mechanic's place in about 10 days time by when the car will be at 47k km's including next weekend 800km trip to punjab. Will update the progress.
I had the above plans for my car and took appointment with my mechanic for 4th Dec. However, something else was planned by destiny.

On 3rd Dec, my car met with an accident in Delhi. Car and occupants are fine but the incident is very unfortunate. I was with my wife, coming back from Gurgaon to Noida. On Ring road, just after Bika Ji Gama place, we were getting onto Sarojini Nagar Flyover. There was good amount of traffic and we were slowly reducing speed from about 40 to 20 while stating to climb on the flyover. Unfortunately, there was a sikh gentleman behind us on a scooter who I think was not looking ahead or had a brake failure on his scooter. Even though the vehicle speeds were in 20's, he came and hit us on the rear left corner and fell down on the road and got run over by a DTC bus's rear tire which was on left side of our car. I saw the fellow gentleman hit us in the rear mirror and then fell down. We stopped to pick him up just to realize that he has come under the bus tire. Took us 5 mins to realize what happend and that he died on the spot.

I called police and ambulance immediately and he was taken to Safdarjang hospital where he was declared dead. A police case was registered against my car and DTC bus. There was no mistake on my part or on bus driver's part. We were both driving carefully and within very slow speeds due to traffic. It's unfortunate that the incident happened, a gentleman lost his life and we went through the police and court hassles. I still feel sorry for the family of poor soul. I pray that he Rests In Peace.

I got the car back from Police Station on 13th of Dec. As of now, just changed the engine oil and filter to Mobil Delvac MX at 47.1k km's. Manza is now at 47.5k km's, not major issues to report as such. The above accident left a small scratch on rear bumper on left side but that's pretty much that happended to my car. Time permitting, I'll persue the following in 2-3 weeks time.

1. Get the front suspension checked, replace strut rubber mounts + anti roll bar rubber bushes
2. Get brake pads checked (car is on original brake pads)
3. Intercooler, cat con & EGR valve cleaned (never did these so far)
4. Lubricate gear shifting cables
5. Get minor dashboard rattles fixed

Thank you for reading.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 19th December 2011 at 11:03.
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Old 19th December 2011, 12:20   #26
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Amit, that's such a unfortunate incident. Hope you guys are over with it.
Still, I can't fathom why DTC bus driver's cant put their feet to brake pedal when required. In the slow traffic, it's difficult to imagine that the gentleman came under the bus and lost his life.
Hope there's no case filed upon and you and everything is settled.

BTW, your manza has been going good. I see from your report, that there's no major issue that has been reported.
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Old 19th December 2011, 12:34   #27
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
Amit, that's such a unfortunate incident. Hope you guys are over with it.
Still, I can't fathom why DTC bus driver's cant put their feet to brake pedal when required. In the slow traffic, it's difficult to imagine that the gentleman came under the bus and lost his life.
Hope there's no case filed upon and you and everything is settled.

BTW, your manza has been going good. I see from your report, that there's no major issue that has been reported.
Well, I do not think it was bus driver's fault. Even at 25kmph speed, I don't think one can stop the bus if someone falls between front and rear tires. As I said it's unfortunate that the guy hit us from back and fell between tires of bus.

A case has been registered against myself u/s 279 of IPC (negligent driving) and u/s 279 + 304A against the bus driver (negligent driving causing death). I feel the case was inevitable due to the death. My lawyer tells me 279 is not a big deal and I won't have issues in future. However, the case might drag for 1-2 years and during this time, I can not sell the car (if I want to in future).

Yes, car is going good so far. It's at 47.5k km's in less than 2 years and I have spent about rs.17k so far in maintenance (excluding tire upgrade). Pretty economical I'd say, as expected from a Tata car.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 19th December 2011 at 12:35.
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Old 20th December 2011, 18:13   #28
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Hi Amit,

Sridhar (Thanks Sridhar) who is one of the responses earlier to this pointed me out to you. I too have a Manza and have been facing occasional problems with the turbo.

I say occasional because the problem seems to occur only when on higher speeds and therefore 5th gear. In specific, when I have to break whilst at higher speeds (problem perceived only in 5th gear) and shift gear dramatically to say 2nd, with subsequent acceleration I find that it takes ages to reach approx. 2800 rpm at which point the turbo decides to kick in. So long as I am not below 2800 rpm, everything is fine, but the minute it drops...which is often for gear changing....the power loss happens again. Found two solutions to this, first is to side the car, switch off the engine, take the key out, re-insert and presto everything is normal. The second solution is to control the decrease in speed and that it does not drop dramatically. I have become fairly adept at this now, however it does slip through sometimes.

On my insistence the turbo was changed, but the problem continued to occur. Unfortunately, since my longish drives happen once in about 5 to 6 months, I really do not get the chance to test it out and out. I completed my 30K service yesterday and will be taking it back after the holiday season for further rectification.

My request to you. With whom did you correspond at TATA, greatly appreciate if you can PM me those details, can be useful.
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Old 21st December 2011, 11:02   #29
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Originally Posted by pariwar View Post
Hi Amit,

Sridhar (Thanks Sridhar) who is one of the responses earlier to this pointed me out to you. I too have a Manza and have been facing occasional problems with the turbo.

I say occasional because the problem seems to occur only when on higher speeds and therefore 5th gear. In specific, when I have to break whilst at higher speeds (problem perceived only in 5th gear) and shift gear dramatically to say 2nd, with subsequent acceleration I find that it takes ages to reach approx. 2800 rpm at which point the turbo decides to kick in. So long as I am not below 2800 rpm, everything is fine, but the minute it drops...which is often for gear changing....the power loss happens again. Found two solutions to this, first is to side the car, switch off the engine, take the key out, re-insert and presto everything is normal. The second solution is to control the decrease in speed and that it does not drop dramatically. I have become fairly adept at this now, however it does slip through sometimes.

On my insistence the turbo was changed, but the problem continued to occur. Unfortunately, since my longish drives happen once in about 5 to 6 months, I really do not get the chance to test it out and out. I completed my 30K service yesterday and will be taking it back after the holiday season for further rectification.

My request to you. With whom did you correspond at TATA, greatly appreciate if you can PM me those details, can be useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
Hey Amit was going through your thread so you also had power delivery issue with your car? This was fixed after diagnosis from the Turbo company. Could you elaborate a little on the exact issue that you had faced?

I dont have power delivery issues but major jerk issues at around the time when the Turbo opens completely at around 2800rpm. Prerana TASS has attributed to the way the accelerator is used and said that its not an issue. But i plan to change the TASS to Concorde and see for the 3rd Service.
Pariwar & Motomaverick,

As I explained in post # 19 above, the issue I faced was of no turbo effect in car pickup, even when I was above 2k RPM. It was due to a failure of vacuum modulator which needs to create enough vacuum to enable the turbo waste gate movement. However, I did not face any jerks etc and the problem was not intermittent. It was a permanant problem which I faced for about 3 weeks before the faulty part was replaced. After changing the part, everything was back to normal.

Pariwar - I think in your case the turbo is fine, as it been just replaced. Did they check all turbo hoses, including blocked intercooler (if there is any oil in it). That's where I would start. I am assuming that air filter is clean or new as you just got the car serviced.

Do you notice any turbo whistle or any type of additional sound when crossing 1700 to 2000 rpm while accelerating in a linear manner from say 1200 rpm to 3000 rpm in 3rd or 4th gear? While accelerating in a linear manner from low rpm (say 1200), you should be able to notice mild turbo spinning sound/ feel between 1700-2000 rpm and good increase in pick-up after 2000 rpm. Trying to keep the car above 2800 rpm must be quite a task, I upshift at 2200-2500 rpm and rarely touch 3000 in my car.

If everything mentioned above is fine, then I'd have the EGR valve cleaned / checked. Blocked intercooler & EGR valve are most common pick-up issues in turbo diesels assuming turbo is fine.

BTW, did they actually change the turbo in your car, I mean did you see them change? I was being told that since turbo is expensive (rs.33k), dealer can only change if it's OEM (Turbo Energy) certifies it to be faulty. I just posted a complaint on tata customer care website and it got alloted to the dealer who did 40k km service. They called me after the complaint, I did not talk to anyone in Tata though.

Motomaverick - I have no clues to the issue you are facing. Just checking, is the jerk abrupt or a bit of linear one where you feel pushed back to the car seat due to immense torque and pick-up after 2,800 rpm?

BTW, manza turbo opens up completely at around 2,300 rpm. There should not be anything different at 2,800 I think.
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Old 21st December 2011, 12:28   #30
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

@Parivar: Your problem is interesting especially after your explanation of the exact scenario when the problem occurs. It raises a few questions which can be better discussed in the List of Manza problems thread on the technical section. Would suggest we shift this discussion to that thread to get a larger audience to respond.
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