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Old 21st December 2011, 13:35   #31
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
Pariwar & Motomaverick,
Pariwar - I think in your case the turbo is fine, as it been just replaced. Did they check all turbo hoses, including blocked intercooler (if there is any oil in it). That's where I would start. I am assuming that air filter is clean or new as you just got the car serviced.

Thanks Amit, they have checked for all types of leakages, tightened the screws etc. Will be doing a long trip in a few days which is when the problem usually surfaces. Will be reverting to them after that.

BTW, did they actually change the turbo in your car, I mean did you see them change? I was being told that since turbo is expensive (rs.33k), dealer can only change if it's OEM (Turbo Energy) certifies it to be faulty.

As per my understanding, it was changed. They had to order for it, came in about a week or so and then the car was taken to the service centre and refitted.

I just posted a complaint on tata customer care website and it got alloted to the dealer who did 40k km service. They called me after the complaint, I did not talk to anyone in Tata though.

Thanks for this info, will bear in mind for when the need arises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
@Parivar: Your problem is interesting especially after your explanation of the exact scenario when the problem occurs. It raises a few questions which can be better discussed in the List of Manza problems thread on the technical section. Would suggest we shift this discussion to that thread to get a larger audience to respond.
Thanks Sridhar, will do the needful. After a couple of failed attempts to find the right thread to post my issues, unfortunately hijacked other's threads (sorry amit). Did not look in the technical section, that is my failing!
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Old 26th December 2011, 11:40   #32
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Default Re: Manza - EGR Valve cleaning done

I got some work done on my Manza on Saturday. Mainly it was EGR valve, air intake manifold (behind the engine block), intercooler and turbo hoses cleaning. Also got anti roll bar bushes greased. It took almost a day to get it all done. Cost was only rs.800 and work quality was top notch. EGR valve and air intake manifold was full of oily carbon. I am happy to get these cleaned as it has improved the acceleration and engine feels even better now when revved. Must have a positive impact on FE as well but too early to say that. My car's FE was good even before this work.

More details are in posts below:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...ml#post2620035 (Friendly Neighborhood Garage (FNG) - Imtiaz & Ayub (New Delhi))

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...ml#post2621769 (Friendly Neighborhood Garage (FNG) - Imtiaz & Ayub (New Delhi))

So now with the car at 48k km's, below is the summary of expenses I incurred on maintaining it.
  • 15k km Oil + Filter change - rs.4,100 (At TASS, Mobil1 0W40)
  • 20k km free service, Fuel + air filter - rs.2,300 (At TASS)
  • 25k km tire upgrade to Apollo aceleres 195/60R15 - rs.10,600
  • 25k km Oil + Filter change - rs.1,000 (Outside, Mobil Delvac MX)
  • 30k km Oil + Filter change - rs.1,000 (Outside, Mobil Delvac MX)
  • 30k km paid service - rs.1,400 (At TASS)
  • 35k km Oil + Filter change + Air filter - rs.2,800 (At TASS, Selenia WR 5W40)
  • 40k km paid service, fuel filter + brake fluid + coolant change - rs.3,500 (At TASS)
  • 47k km Oil + Filter change - rs.1,000 (Outside, Mobil Delvac MX)
  • 48k km EGR valve, air intake manifold, intercooler and turbo hoses cleaning - rs.800 (Outside mechanic)
That's about rs.28.5k for 48k km's including rs.10.6k on tire upgrade which are still good for another 40k km's. FE remains ~19kmpl for a 50/50 mix of local and highway drives.

Next service will be at TASS at 50k km's. My car is in top notch condition so that will be a bare bone general check-up and washing service just to maintain warranty. I don't think there are any fluids/ filters to be replaced at 50k km service.

Thank you for reading.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 26th December 2011 at 11:52.
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Old 26th December 2011, 12:50   #33
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Hi Amit, A very nice writeup for the Manza. Your ownership experience actually puts a lot of people in confidence of the car. Indeed an enjoyable experience.

I too bought the new Vista and am preety thrilled to see no major expenses on your car. So kinda expecting the same from mine too.

I went through your thread on the Engine oil change and you mentioning not to use the Mobil. Just to clarify, you are actually saying to use Delvac. Is that right? Does the TASS agree to it when you say so?

Thanks for your help.
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Old 26th December 2011, 13:24   #34
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by pariwar View Post
..unfortunately hijacked other's threads (sorry amit)...
Please do not say this . I did not put up this thread to have only my posts. Please feel free to discuss any manza related issues and I'll be happy to share any information I have on that. Of course, manza issues thread in Technial section will get more responses (including mine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravdgr8 View Post
Hi Amit, A very nice writeup for the Manza. Your ownership experience actually puts a lot of people in confidence of the car. Indeed an enjoyable experience.

I too bought the new Vista and am pretty thrilled to see no major expenses on your car. So kinda expecting the same from mine too.

I went through your thread on the Engine oil change and you mentioning not to use the Mobil. Just to clarify, you are actually saying to use Delvac. Is that right? Does the TASS agree to it when you say so?

Thanks for your help.
I am not a fan of Mobil1 0W40 oil for a diesel engine. If you absolutely want to use synthetic use Mobil Delvac 1 5W40. Now problem comes when the car is in warranty and TASS wants to fill the oil they have.

Since your Vista will also be in warranty, and if you do not have an option of using oil provided by you, I'd recommend you to use recommended mineral oil and change at specified interval. Please do not fall for synthetic oils at TASS since they are 1.5 times expensive beyond market rates and I think do not offer synthetic like protection in a diesel car. Do not fall for engine flush as well since that's not needed as long as oil changes are on time. Wish you good luck with your car.

In my case, manza recommended oil is fully synthetic with oil change interval as 20k km's. I am not comfortable with oil change interval of 20k km's. So I do change oil at TASS every 20k km's (synthetic) but also change once in between outside. So last I did 12k km's on synthetic and 8k km's on Mobil Delvac MX (which is a high quality diesel engine mineral oil).

These are my views based on experience. Happy to know if I am wrong.

Please read through this thread if you want to know more about diesel engine oils.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...gine-oils.html (All about Diesel engine oils)
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Old 13th February 2012, 12:49   #35
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Default Re: Manza - 50k km's completed

So my manza completed 50k km's in about 2 years time. I think it is an appropriate time to do a quick summary of my views about the car:

What I like:
  • An extremely practical "Family" sedan. Enough space for people, luggage and other small nick nacks. IIRC, there has not been a time when I could not carry all I wanted to due to shortage of space in Manza. This is with a year old baby and at time his nanny (and their stuff) travelling with us
  • Inexpensive to maintain (details below)
  • Fuel efficient diesel (details below)
  • Reasonably quick and comfortable to drive/ ride in, does not tire me or family much. We very often do non stop ~5 hours drives between Delhi - Punjab.
  • Reliable so far. No breakdowns etc. Infact I'd say my car is relatively niggle free.
  • No ownership surprises. Everything is going on as expected (both good and not so good bits)
What I don't like:
  • An extremely practical "Family" sedan. Driver in me keeps wanting more
  • Not as comfortable to drive in city as on highway. I think that's due to not so slick gearbox and diesel turbolag.
  • Service experience. Folks at ASC's are helpful but at times technically challenged.
So I got the 50k km's paid service done last Friday. Service cost rs.1,286/-. Yes, I did not miss a zero here, I actually paid only this much for the 50k km service. Charges were for paid service and air filter change.

So now with the car at 50.6k km's, below is the summary of expenses I incurred on maintaining it.
  • 15k km Oil + Filter change - rs.4,100 (At TASS, Mobil1 0W40)
  • 20k km free service, Fuel + air filter - rs.2,300 (At TASS)
  • 25k km tire upgrade to Apollo aceleres 195/60R15 - rs.10,600
  • 25k km Oil + Filter change - rs.1,000 (Outside, Mobil Delvac MX)
  • 30k km Oil + Filter change - rs.1,000 (Outside, Mobil Delvac MX)
  • 30k km paid service - rs.1,400 (At TASS)
  • 35k km Oil + Filter change + Air filter - rs.2,800 (At TASS, Selenia WR 5W40)
  • 40k km paid service, fuel filter + brake fluid + coolant change - rs.3,500 (At TASS)
  • 47k km Oil + Filter change - rs.1,000 (Outside, Mobil Delvac MX)
  • 48k km EGR valve, air intake manifold, intercooler and turbo hoses cleaning - rs.800 (Outside mechanic)
  • 50k km paid service, Air filter change - rs.1,300 (At TASS)
  • Other misc expenses like wheel alignmet, balancing, punctures etc - rs.800
That's about rs.30.5k for 50k km's including rs.10.6k on tire upgrade which are still good for another 40k km's. FE remains ~19kmpl for a 50/50 mix of local and highway drives.

Next visit to TASS will be at 55k km's to get oil changed. Last oil change at TASS was at 35k km's. Thinking of doing engine flush and/ or engine decarb at 60/70k km's. I don't do these frequently but thinking once in 60/70k km's. Any opinions?

Thank you for reading.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:41   #36
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

^^^Amit, Thanks for the regular updates and keep them coming. Your views on the ownership pretty much mirrors mine. For the oil change, unfortunately in Chennai, none of the TASs have Selenia and hence have to shelve out the additional bucks for Mobil1 0W40.
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Old 13th February 2012, 18:24   #37
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
...unfortunately in Chennai, none of the TASs have Selenia and hence have to shelve out the additional bucks for Mobil1 0W40.
I am a little suprised with this as Selenia is the only recommended oil for Fiat cars. I wonder what do they fill in Punto and Linea if they do not have it in stock. When I asked for this for the first time, even I was told no. Then I showed them the manual where this oil is recommended and asked what do they fill in Fiats. After that I got this in my car. I guess their margins are lesser on this oil.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, just wanted to share two things I noticed wrt to the manza.

I had never driven my car earlier on the hills. This weekend I travelled to Jaipur and a very small part (about 20km) was on the hills to see Nahargarh, Jaigarh forts and Amer palace. I was very happy with manza's pickup and driveability on inclines. I was able to climb up in second and third gear comfortably. May be it's normal but since it was first time for me, I am impressed.

Recently, I rented a swift diesel taxi for about 40km's for an official trip in NCR. The swift felt kind of nice on bad roads and with the amount of rattles/ other sounds inside felt like a ~2 year/ 40k km old car. When I asked the driver about her age, he told me it's a 6 month, 15k km old car. I understand it was a taxi and hence might be abused, but considering that it was almost new, made me appreciate my manza a little more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
A quick update on the black santro. Current ODO at 84k km's. Suspension overhaul is badly required. I think I'll have to change all 4 dampers and top rubber mounts. Will also have the lower arms, tie rods, ball joints, engine/ GB mounts checked. Planning to get this done on 20th Feb at my friendly mechanic's place. Expecting a bill of ~rs.6k.

Other than this car is in perfect condition. Mileage has been consitant at ~17.5kmpl in local drives in NCR winters for last 3-4 tankfuls.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 13th February 2012 at 18:47.
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Old 16th February 2012, 17:19   #38
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Default Re: Manza - 50k km's completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
So my manza completed 50k km's in about 2 years time. I think it is an appropriate time to do a quick summary of my views about the car:

That's about rs.30.5k for 50k km's including rs.10.6k on tire upgrade which are still good for another 40k km's. FE remains ~19kmpl for a 50/50 mix of local and highway drives.
Wonderful summary Amit & congratulations on completing 50K kms on your Manza. It is no doubt a very good family sedan. If we exclude the tyre upgrade costs, then your maintenance comes out to Rs 20 K for 50K kms, ie just Rs 0.40/km, which is fantastic. (Even my Indica's maintenance was slightly higher @ Rs 0.48 /km when it reached 50K kms, in 2009). I am of the firm opinion that Tata cars are more suited for highway drives, they suck in city traffic but are altogether a different species on the highways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
Next visit to TASS will be at 55k km's to get oil changed. Last oil change at TASS was at 35k km's. Thinking of doing engine flush and/ or engine decarb at 60/70k km's. I don't do these frequently but thinking once in 60/70k km's. Any opinions?

Thank you for reading.
Engine decarb not required, just do the engine flushing. I got it done on my car @ 70K kms. I had a lot of doubts & questions regarding Engine Flush. Have read more negative things than positive on the net, however after lot of deliberations & some sound advice from senior people decided to go for it come what may. Procedure followed for Engine Flush:
1. When the engine was warm, added the Engine Flush & cleaner 250ml (MOTOR - Innen-Reiniger) by Wuerth India Ltd, throu the Engine Oil filler hole.
2. Ran the engine on idle for 20 mins. Before starting the engine the catalytic convertor was removed
3. Removed the Oil drain plug & drained the oil mixed with cleaner. The mixture was pitch dark but very thin (flowed like water). Refitted the drain plug.
4. Then poured lose engine oil (Servo make) @ 2 litres, without removing the old oil filter.
5. Ran the engine on idle for 10 mins. The engine became quite hot, even the radiator fan kicked in once.
6. Removed the Oil drain plug & drained the 2 litre loose oil.
7. Also removed the oil sump. It had few hardened particles & blackened layer of oil.
8. Washed the sump with diesel, then with water & dried with compressed air.
9. Fitted it back with a new sump gasket, put the drain plug in place. Also
fitted the new oil filter (Purolator make).
10. Poured in 4 litres of fresh oil (20W40 Diesel Engine Oil - Castrol CRB -
With synthetic technology, API CH-4/ CF-4 specification.)
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Old 16th February 2012, 17:33   #39
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Default Re: Manza - 50k km's completed

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
I am of the firm opinion that Tata cars are more suited for highway drives, they suck in city traffic but are altogether a different species on the highways.
You are so very right. I just fall in love with my Manza all over again everytime I am on highway. She can cruise in a very relaxed manner at 100kmph all day. Lucky for me, 60% of my running so far has been on good highways in north.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Engine decarb not required, just do the engine flushing. Procedure followed for Engine Flush
Thanks for the steps. I am not sure if TASS folks here will have so much time to do engine flush like this. They are usually after easy money. I know for sure they don't remove cat con as I asked them once. But if and when I do it, will keep this procedure in mind.
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Old 16th February 2012, 17:39   #40
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Default Re: Manza - 50k km's completed

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Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
You are so very right. I just fall in love with my Manza all over again everytime I am on highway. She can cruise in a very relaxed manner at 100kmph all day. Lucky for me, 60% of my running so far has been on good highways in north.
Same here. Fortunately even for me my daily office commute of 64kms has more than 50% of highway driving.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
Thanks for the steps. I am not sure if TASS folks here will have so much time to do engine flush like this. They are usually after easy money. I know for sure they don't remove cat con as I asked them once. But if and when I do it, will keep this procedure in mind.
I got this done from a small TASC, standing right next to my car just to make sure that there was no goof up.
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Old 17th February 2012, 13:01   #41
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Default Re: Manza - 50k km's completed

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
I got this done from a small TASC, standing right next to my car just to make sure that there was no goof up.
One question on engine flush, if you remember.

Was there a difference felt in engine smoothness, sound and pick-up after you did the engine flush at 70k km's? If so, was it significant and did it stay that way for next 15-20k km's? Thanks
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Old 17th February 2012, 13:14   #42
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Default Re: Manza - 50k km's completed

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Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
One question on engine flush, if you remember.

Was there a difference felt in engine smoothness, sound and pick-up after you did the engine flush at 70k km's? If so, was it significant and did it stay that way for next 15-20k km's? Thanks
Yes, there was a remarkable difference after the engine flush. Engine became smoother, pick-up also improved. Most importantly engine oil retained its original brownish yellow colour even after running 4000 kms. If you have a reliable TASC & they allow you to accompany your car while it is being serviced then I would advice get it done.
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Old 20th February 2012, 22:17   #43
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
A quick update on the black santro. Current ODO at 84k km's. Suspension overhaul is badly required. I think I'll have to change all 4 dampers and top rubber mounts. Will also have the lower arms, tie rods, ball joints, engine/ GB mounts checked. Planning to get this done on 20th Feb at my friendly mechanic's place. Expecting a bill of ~rs.6k.
Got the santro's suspension done today. Following are the parts used and cost:

Front shock absorbers, Gabriel make 2x1,440 = 2,880
Lower arm ball joint, 2x320 = 640
Santro rubber bushes kit = 660
Buffer for rear springs = 120
Mechanic Labor = 900
Wheel alignment = 100
Total = 5,300

Rear shockers were not replaced as advised by the mechanic. Car feels more stable and balanced now. Next service for this car will be at 87k km's which will be only engine oil and filter change.
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Old 21st February 2012, 09:30   #44
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Mr. Singla, Where do you get the alignment+balancing of your car done and what is your feedback of the workshop? Am looking for good quality workmanship in our neighbourhood.
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Old 21st February 2012, 10:19   #45
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Mr. Singla, Where do you get the alignment+balancing of your car done and what is your feedback of the workshop? Am looking for good quality workmanship in our neighbourhood.
Deeps, I get it done from a tyre shop in indirapuram. He has a wheel alignment, balancing and tyre changing machine. His WA machine is not 3D but a normal one which checks alignment with instrument connected to all 4 wheels.

I go to him for his friendly nature and reasonable charges. He charges rs.100 for WA, rs.50 per camber (if adjustment is needed), rs.25 per wheel for balancing + charges for new weights (as per usage). If you ask him to use old weights, then he does balancing at rs.30 per wheel (including old weights). He offers WA alignment gurantee for 1 month/3k km (whichever is earlier). Within this time, you can get it done again for free, if you feel there is an issue.

I am so far pretty happy with his work. And he is near to where I stay so works for me. Not sure this location will suit you, but call me if you need the directions.

EDIT - there are many shops in Noida sec 16 but I found most to be expensive. You can't get WA+WB for less than rs.600 there. But they have relatively latest equipments with them I guess.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 21st February 2012 at 10:23.
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