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Old 21st January 2013, 12:10   #76
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Amit, good to know that your car is absolutely rocking & there are no major issues till date (touchwood). Yes regular maintenance & good workmanship at the workshops do play a very major role is such troublefree service.

Regarding suspension overhaul, if there are no issues with the suspension, I would suggest don't touch it at all. I did the first suspension work on my Indica after 120K kms & 8.5 years, that too because I was hearing a thud from left hand side front wheel while going over a bump or a pothole. My guess was right & the LHS shocker damping was gone. Replaced it with a new one for INR 2765 (labor INR 150). That is the only thing I have done on my suspension till date.
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Old 21st January 2013, 12:48   #77
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Amit, good to know that your car is absolutely rocking & there are no major issues till date (touchwood). Yes regular maintenance & good workmanship at the workshops do play a very major role is such troublefree service.

Regarding suspension overhaul, if there are no issues with the suspension, I would suggest don't touch it at all. I did the first suspension work on my Indica after 120K kms & 8.5 years, that too because I was hearing a thud from left hand side front wheel while going over a bump or a pothole. My guess was right & the LHS shocker damping was gone. Replaced it with a new one for INR 2765 (labor INR 150). That is the only thing I have done on my suspension till date.
AutoIndian - There are issues with suspension like thud from both front sides and many other squeaking sounds etc. Also I feel excessive body roll when going over bad roads, pot holes etc. Suspension definitely needs work, what all parts are required will be decided by my trusted mechanic. At the minimum I would have him open all suspension parts, check one by one, replace which are needed and put everything back together.

Thanks.
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Old 25th January 2013, 12:48   #78
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Default Re: Manza at 80k km's

80k km service for Manza has been completed. Corcorde has opened up a new Tata only workshop (no Fiat) in Delhi and I wanted to experience that so took the car there, even though it was 18km’s farther that Him motors I visited last. This was a VERY spacious workshop and had latest equipment and a lot more servicing bays compared to what I have seen at other Tata workshops.

Service experience was overall good, not great primarily due to an idiot shop floor guy who took my car for road test with me and was merrily ruining the clutch. He invariably tried to move from stand still in 2nd and 3rd gear and stalled twice. He had my piece of mind on this.

No Fiat workshop also meant I could not get Selenia WR 5W40 oil this time, so had to settle for Castrol Edge 5W40. Following work was done on the car:
  • Engine oil + filter change
  • Air and Fuel filter change
  • Coolant and brake fluid change
  • General checkup, washing cleaning etc
Gear oil level was checked and was found ok. I wanted to get it replaced however SA suggested there is no need as Tata recommends only top up if needed at 80k km's. Service manual confirms this. Does Manza really come with life time lasting gear oil? I might change this at next service as a preventive measure.

Total cost for the above including paid service charge was rs.7,958.

Due to problem mentioned in this post (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3001523 (Indica Xeta - Engine stays at zero heat)), thermostat valve was replaced within extended warranty. I thought of this as a simple mechanical part but this was quite complex mechanical + electrical unit with thermostat valve, by pass valve and temperature sensor etc all built in the elbow housing. Cost was rs.3,000 including rs.200 labor (covered in EW). Temp reading on valve was 88'C.

Car is in good shape except the work on suspension which I will attend to in next few weeks. So now with the car at 80k km's, below is the summary of expenses I incurred on maintaining it.

  • Maintenance upto 50k km's - rs.30,000 (details in post #51)
  • 55k km Oil + Filter change - rs.2,600 (At TASS, Selenia WR 5W40)
  • 60k km paid service, fuel filter + air filter change - rs.3,900 (At TASS)
  • 67.5k km Battery, brake pads, wiper blades, alignment etc - rs.5,500
  • 70k km paid service, Oil + oil and air filter change - rs.3,750 (At TASS, Selenia WR 5W40)
  • 80k km paid service, Oil + oil +fuel + air filter + coolant and brake fluid change - rs.8,000 (At TASS)
  • 80k km tire change Apollo Acelere 185/60/15 - rs.9,200
That's about rs.63k for 80k km's including services and tires.

Thank you for reading.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 25th January 2013 at 12:53.
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Old 28th January 2013, 13:09   #79
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Default Re: Manza at 80k km's

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Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
80k km service for Manza has been completed. Corcorde has opened up a new Tata only workshop (no Fiat) in Delhi and I wanted to experience that so took the car there, even though it was 18kms farther that Him motors I visited last. This was a VERY spacious workshop and had latest equipment and a lot more servicing bays compared to what I have seen at other Tata workshops.
Hi Amit, can you please share the addresses for both Concorde and Him. Also if there is a system they have for prior booking. Any other good workshop suggestions from you are also welcome.

My Manza is close to 28k and will complete 30K in another 15-20 days. Am not in mood to go to Oberoi yet again.
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Old 28th January 2013, 17:40   #80
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Default Re: Manza at 80k km's

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Originally Posted by dhondusaxena View Post
Hi Amit, can you please share the addresses for both Concorde and Him. Also if there is a system they have for prior booking. Any other good workshop suggestions from you are also welcome.

My Manza is close to 28k and will complete 30K in another 15-20 days. Am not in mood to go to Oberoi yet again.

HIM MOTORS
NO. 24, S.I.E, PATPARGANJ INDUSTRIAL AREA,
City : NEW DELHI State : DELHI Pin : 110092
Booking no - 011 - 45334500
Good SA - Lokesh - 9873088069

Concorde
A31, Mohan Cooperative Industrial Estate, Mathura Road.
Booking no - 011 42224777
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Old 10th February 2013, 11:54   #81
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

So got a chance to get suspension looked up yesterday at my trusted FNG with car at 81.1k km’s. Things were not as bad as I thought it to be, not even close to bad actually.

So the issues I had with suspension were squeaking sounds on uneven roads. Thud type sounds from front both sides while driving on broken roads. Excessive body roll both front and back. Due to these and mileage on the car, I was expecting to replace at least dampers and usual wear and tear parts.

After mechanic opened up stuff, he declared that all 4 dampers are in very good condition and there is absolutely no need to change. He did not believe these are OE dampers 81k km’s old. So the squeaking noise was due to worn out anti roll bar bushes (jumping road as mechanics call it). Busted lower arm ball joints and anti roll bar link rods were creating the thud sound. Excessive body roll was due to the above and not so tight rear suspension top mounts.

So we got Talbros made, lower arm ball joints, anti roll bar link rods and anti roll bar bushes etc and put everything together after checking each old part one by one.

And everything just feels perfect again! Suspension is now silent, predictable and feels fairly tight, kind of you feel on a relatively new car. I am pretty happy with the results.

Total damage is not much. Rs.1,400 for parts, 900 for labor, 200 for wheel alignment. Total rs.2.5k. Car is in near perfect condition now. Pretty good for me for now.

EDIT: Just want to add, somehow I feel I am extremely satisfied on the quality of work and prices whenever I visit my trusted FNG. I always miss this feeling whenever I am at TASS (all 5 dealers I have tried so far). So as the last 80k service was done at TASS, my car will enjoy extended warranty benefit till 90k km service is due. At that point I will be left with 6 more months of warranty and I'm seriously thinking of ditching that.

Thank you for reading!

Last edited by amit1234singla : 10th February 2013 at 12:02.
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:20   #82
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
Total damage is not much. Rs.1,400 for parts, 900 for labor, 200 for wheel alignment. Total rs.2.5k. Car is in near perfect condition now. Pretty good for me for now.
Good to know that the suspension is back in shape & very few parts had to be replaced to get it back in that shape. I always feel that Tata cars' suspensions are quite robust & abuse friendly. Though I had replaced the ball joints & balancing rod on earlier occasions (96K), the front LHS strut was replaced only at 120K.

Quote:
EDIT: Just want to add, somehow I feel I am extremely satisfied on the quality of work and prices whenever I visit my trusted FNG. I always miss this feeling whenever I am at TASS (all 5 dealers I have tried so far). So as the last 80k service was done at TASS, my car will enjoy extended warranty benefit till 90k km service is due. At that point I will be left with 6 more months of warranty and I'm seriously thinking of ditching that. Thank you for reading!
I will say stick to the TASC, if it is just the matter of 6 months, because you will have to show all service records & god forbid if something happens in those 6 months, then the EW will come in handy. After my extended warranty got over, I have hardly ever visited the TASC, always trusted the FNG. The FNG gives you easy accessibility, you can stand there in front of your car when it is being serviced, that gives us much more confidence compared to when we leave the car at someone else's mercy.
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Old 10th February 2013, 17:29   #83
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Hello Amit - I have been following this thread for a while as I happen to own and drive a Manza QJD like yours - but more so as I also suffer from TATA Service Centre Quality issues . I think the thread is quite informative and useful for Manza QJD owners!

MY 20k Service is due already - I will take the car out to Service Centre next week and wanted to check couple of things with you -

1) Do you specifically ask them to change engine oil and oil filter at 20K service ? I think i did that on 10K service (actually 13K!)

2) Can I ask for a specific brand of Engine Oil or buy it from outside for them to use?

3) My car makes a thud sound - seems to be coming from underbelly after I hit a big pothole on one of my road trips almost a year back - when the steering is moved toward left on back gear - the sound is most prominent. It comes only when I am turning the car into reverse gear and not in any other position. I have requested ABS Motors Gurgaon (My TASS) to fix it in multiple occasions and they have failed each time. I am going to request them again this time - but I am not sure they understand it. Any idea how to get this fixed?

Thanks!
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Old 11th February 2013, 11:01   #84
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Good to know that the suspension is back in shape & very few parts had to be replaced to get it back in that shape. I always feel that Tata cars' suspensions are quite robust & abuse friendly. Though I had replaced the ball joints & balancing rod on earlier occasions (96K), the front LHS strut was replaced only at 120K.
I think it's generally more to do with how car is driven (mainly on bad roads), how much air pressure one maintains (excessive is bad for suspension), regular balancing/ alignment and tire size (% deviation from stock). If one takes care of the above, suspension will usually last long. Specific to Manza (and like any other car in these segments), none of the suspension parts are made by OEM's. And the suspension design is also similar in 90% of the cars in similar segments. So not sure if it's anything to do with it being a TATA. My experience has been similar for the two santros we have/ had, Manza and my Dad's Figo (which is at 52k km's in 19 months).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
I will say stick to the TASC, if it is just the matter of 6 months, because you will have to show all service records & god forbid if something happens in those 6 months, then the EW will come in handy. After my extended warranty got over, I have hardly ever visited the TASC, always trusted the FNG. The FNG gives you easy accessibility, you can stand there in front of your car when it is being serviced, that gives us much more confidence compared to when we leave the car at someone else's mercy.
I intend to take this call at the time of 90k km service. If there is nothing wrong at that time to be covered in EW, I will not go to TASS and start servicing my car every 13-14k km's at my FNG, with fully synthetic oil of course which my car already gets. I think I have two strong reasons for the same:

1. Originally manza had oil change interval 20k km's. Then they reduced it to 10k km's and as per Tata my car falls into this category. New manza's now sold by Tata have a 15k km's service interval. All these with same engine and same engine oil recommendation. Just for warranty, I have to get expensive oil changed at 10k km's whereas, their new cars do just fine even at 15k km's interval. I don't like this discrimination.

2. I looked at my 80k km service bill which was rs.8k. Not too much I know but if I were to get the same work with same quality fluids/ parts done at my FNG, it would have costed rs.5k only. So I saved rs.3k by getting thermostat valve changed in EW but paid rs.3k extra regular for service . Worst part then is dual trips to TASS/ Mechanic. If I would have got the 80k km service done at FNG, suspension would have been looked at the same day, saving me a day.

So I am thinking if at 90k km's everything seems fine, I'll not go to TASS (which means let go of remaining EW), but service the car at FNG at about 93/94k kms. I welcome your views on this though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechNomad View Post
Hello Amit - I have been following this thread for a while as I happen to own and drive a Manza QJD like yours - but more so as I also suffer from TATA Service Centre Quality issues . I think the thread is quite informative and useful for Manza QJD owners!

MY 20k Service is due already - I will take the car out to Service Centre next week and wanted to check couple of things with you -

1) Do you specifically ask them to change engine oil and oil filter at 20K service ? I think i did that on 10K service (actually 13K!)

2) Can I ask for a specific brand of Engine Oil or buy it from outside for them to use?

3) My car makes a thud sound - seems to be coming from underbelly after I hit a big pothole on one of my road trips almost a year back - when the steering is moved toward left on back gear - the sound is most prominent. It comes only when I am turning the car into reverse gear and not in any other position. I have requested ABS Motors Gurgaon (My TASS) to fix it in multiple occasions and they have failed each time. I am going to request them again this time - but I am not sure they understand it. Any idea how to get this fixed?

Thanks!
Technomad
Thank you.

1) I assume your car is from prior to Club class launch so required oil/ filter change at 10k km interval to maintain warranty. If so, not much option with you. BTW - since you got the last service done at 13k km's, you may have already lost the warranty.

2) Since you have to change the oil/ filter every 10k km's, I recommend Selenia WR 5W40. Cost wise, works pretty well (~600/L). Most TASS which also service Fiats have this oil. They initially refuse to fill, but if you show them the manual wherein this oil is recommended, they usually agree (or agreed for me). If you go this route, please ensure the oil used is Selenia WR 5W40 and not Selenia K 5W40. Selenia K is for fiat petrols.

3) There could be multiple reasons for this. Recommend you replicate the sound to show the mechanic (not SA but a senior mechanic) and go from there.
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Old 15th February 2013, 12:19   #85
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
I welcome your views on this though.
Hi AutoIndian - I hope you did not find anything offensive in the above post of mine. Just that I feel I was direct in posting my views. Also I would like to have your thoughts on this, if you were in my position, seriously.

~~~~~~~~~

As I do a lot of odd hours highway driving, picked up a set of jump start cables from the spares shop (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...new-delhi.html (Metro Spares & Ghai Motors (Savitri Nagar, New Delhi))) where I picked up suspension stuff last weekend. Costed rs.600. I already have a portable electric air compressor for emergencies lying in the boot. Will also pick up a simple tow strap for those rare extreme cases.

~~~~~~~~~

I wanted to share a few observations on manza engine. It's at 81.5k km's now.

- People say the first indicator of engine health the FE it delivers. I get about 23kmpl when purely driven on highways. City driving is about 18-19. For the winter season, i.e. no AC, with 2/3rd of highway driving my overall mileage has been around 21kmpl. I don't baby the engine too much. Generally upshifts are at rpm of ~2.2k in city, and ~2.5k on highways while touching 3k as well sometimes. Average speeds on highways are mostly between 80-100 kmph

- I don't do this often, but manza pulls cleanly from low rpm's. E.g. in 3rd gear, at speeds of 20kmph, RPM is ~800 and car can pull cleanly from this w/o any vibrations or jerks. So is in 4th gear, from speed of 35, RPM ~1k. Sure there is turbo lag, but no other issues

- There is absolutely no black smoke I can see coming from car's exhaust. During hard acceleration on highways, I can't see it in my rear view mirror meaning either there is none or minimal to be seen. This could be due to regular highway driving so exhaust system is generally clear

- There is no drop observed in levels of engine oil, coolant or any other fluid

Interpreting the above, I am thinking the engine is in perfect condition. Am I right in thinking so? Any thoughts...

Last edited by amit1234singla : 15th February 2013 at 12:48.
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Old 8th March 2013, 12:32   #86
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

I have given my Manza for the 30K service today. As suggested by Amit Singla, spoke to Lokesh in advance and fixed an appointment. On first looks, the Workshop is not as "hep" as Oberoi Cars and is quite laid back with no rush. Will get the car around 5PM and will be posting my review of the service and works done.
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Old 12th March 2013, 13:00   #87
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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...Will get the car around 5PM and will be posting my review of the service and works done.
Could you please share how this service experience was.
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Old 8th April 2013, 21:25   #88
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Back after a while. Have been keeping very busy and hence couldn't post the outcome.

Well the service experience was okay. The workshop is not that crowded as Oberoi Cars. People are courteous and one can actually stand along with our vehicle while servicing is being done. Service was done well but they failed to rectify the issues.

Last week I once again had to escalate to Mayuresh and also tweeted my displeasure. They intervened and I left my car on Friday afternoon again for running repairs. They have again done some repairs in the left rear shocker which was squeaking under load. This problems seems to have gone as of now but the noise from rear parcel tray and from rear right brakes when breaking.

I am now getting to a point where we are done with Tatas.
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Old 9th April 2013, 12:08   #89
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhondusaxena View Post
Back after a while. Have been keeping very busy and hence couldn't post the outcome.

Well the service experience was okay. The workshop is not that crowded as Oberoi Cars. People are courteous and one can actually stand along with our vehicle while servicing is being done. Service was done well but they failed to rectify the issues.

Last week I once again had to escalate to Mayuresh and also tweeted my displeasure. They intervened and I left my car on Friday afternoon again for running repairs. They have again done some repairs in the left rear shocker which was squeaking under load. This problems seems to have gone as of now but the noise from rear parcel tray and from rear right brakes when breaking.

I am now getting to a point where we are done with Tatas.
I agree, getting fixed anything other than regular servicing is usually a problem at TASS. That's the reason I have tried 5 ASC's in past 3 years of my car ownership and finally decided to pay a visit to my trusted FNG once a year or so for getting these minor issues sorted out (in addition to general services at TASS for warranty). Soon my car's warranty will be over and general servicing will also be taken care of at FNG. Though I found Him Motors to be better than others for normal servicing and customer friendliness.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Update on Manza at 85k km's. All okay except AC. AC has failed last weekend and does not cool now. I think there is a leak in the system and Gas is gone as I can hear the expansion valve in open position all the time.

Since the car is under EW and I am expecting a leaking evaporator (cooling coil) at least. Going to Him Motors tomorrow to drop the car for repairs. Let's see what all is gone and how much is covered in EW.

My manza has Behr AC system and sometime later Tata has moved on to Subros for both Vista and Manza which I understand is a better design and higher capacity compressor. Chances are bleak but I will check if they can change to Subros in my car in EW.

BTW this is for the first time AC in any of our cars has failed or is even serviced. White santro was 6.5 years and 132k km's (when sold) on original unopened AC. Black santro is at about 7 years and 91k km's mark and AC is working absolutely fine. Not sure why it failed in Manza.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 9th April 2013 at 12:12.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:15   #90
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Default re: A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+

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Update on Manza at 85k km's. All okay except AC. AC has failed last weekend and does not cool now. I think there is a leak in the system and Gas is gone as I can hear the expansion valve in open position all the time.
Update on the above: I had dropped the car at Him motors on 15 Apr for AC repairs and got it back on 18th afternoon. AC cooling coil had developed a leak and has been replaced under extended warranty. Cooling oil is rather cheap for Manza (Behr make), rs.3k. Labor of rs.2k was also covered in EW. I had to pay for gas and compressor oil, rs.1,145. AC cools fine now.
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