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Old 10th October 2015, 09:11   #211
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Your cost calculation on petrol and CNG is on the right track, but you may also want to factor in the time and money spent on getting the various CNG related issues sorted out. I am not sure if not switching to CNG would have avoided some of the issues you faced.

This is one reason why I haven't yet dared think of fitting CNG in any of my cars. I might buy a factory CNG instead.
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Old 31st October 2015, 20:26   #212
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So the Odo now reads as below. Had called up my HASS advisor related to the air bags , he said he will let me know when to come. So keeping fingers crossed that it happens soon. Got a couple of things for the car. A Garmin 42 LM Nuvi GPS & a dual USB charger. I wanted a GPS system for a long time. Found a good deal online Snap Deal for 5.7K and ordered the Garmin. There was a brief confusion for me on whether to go for Map My India or Garmin but since the latter had a better build quality decided to go for the Garmin.

ODO as of now.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151031_174041.jpg

A dual USB car charger was a must since i am also using the Dashcam. Incidentally one can also power the GPS device via the USB of the car audio system.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-img_20151015_110308.jpg
The Garmin Nuvi 42 LM. LM starts for Lifetime Maps which are free. Haven't bothered to update yet.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-garminimg_20151023_193235.jpg

The device is specifically for India and some neighboring countries.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-garmin_indiaimg_20151023_193248.jpg

The Device in the box
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-img_20151023_193garmin_device300.jpg

The USB car charger which came along with the box.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-img_20151023_195garmin_charger505.jpg

The dual USB car charger which i ordered from Amazon comes with a extenstion chord and this sticky thing which helps to secure the device from moving around.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-stickey20151015_111130.jpg

Look at the mess in there.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-wires_mess20151026_071109.jpg

I managed to tuck the wires inside the head unit of my car.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-tuck_wires20151026_071048.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-tuck_wires_220151026_071120.jpg

Got this mount from Amazon. The Garmin's own mount is also there but i chose this as it's easy to remove the device from the mount by just opening the jaws. The problem with this mount is that even though i managed to secure the base by using a suction disc which i had from a previous mount, the neck of mount vibrates and moves the GPS device while going over rough patches. But since the device is easy to remove and i wanted it as this exact position on the centre of the dashboard i am living with it for now.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-mount_20151026_071132.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-device_dash20151026_071039.jpg

The tire noise continues. I might be in the market for new tires in a few months and am considering GoodYear Assurance or MRF ZLO’s Again will be sticking to the upgraded size of 205 65 R 15 as this size prevents a lot of underbelly scrapping.
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Old 23rd November 2015, 21:05   #213
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Car is with Linkway Honda for general service and air bags change. My regurlar Hass advisor had taken ill but taking his advice i still went anyways since it was just normal service and my main goal was to get the air bags replaced. Later today in the evening got a call from the new advisor stating that the mechanic has reported a power steering leakage
This is the third time and i am quite dismayed.

I called up my regurlar advisor Ganesh and he said to refuse approval to work on the power steering and to monitor same for some time. As per Ganesh PS leakage should be taken into consideration only when one is needed to top up oil now and then say in 15 days or once a week. As per him if the mechanics see any smearing of oil here and there they report it as a leakage. So keeping fingers crossed and hoping for the best.
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Old 25th November 2015, 14:18   #214
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Got back the car yesterday from HASS. The total bill came to around 2.7 k. Along with that got a report for a rack leak, broken sub-frame mount and a cut in the lower arms bushes. For the issues I called up my advisor Ganesh who is on leave due to ill health and he mentioned that the rack leak can be topped up if needed and can be monitored before arriving to conclusions. As per him a repaired rack can last max 3 years before needing attention again. My car’s steering rack was repaired in 2012 by Solitaire Honda and I guess held up ok. Will see when I need to get this done but mostly will get it done from outside if needed since it’s not suppose to last long anyways. Below is the level of oil in the Power steering reservoir when the engine was hot.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151124_200844.jpg

I checked while the engine was cold and found the oil level at more or less the same mark.

For the sub-frame mount Ganesh said it’s not that critical so I am over looking it for now and the boot cut I have seen that it’s a minor one and will wait till the bushes go complete kaput. Also while returning the front right side valvle developed a leak so replaced that at my regular petrol pump for 150 bucks. Due to these unforeseen expenses (rack etc) I may delay buying new tyres for now and continue with the goodyear.

Edit: Forgot to mention both the air bags were replaced for free.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 25th November 2015 at 14:22.
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Old 25th November 2015, 22:20   #215
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Sumit, I was also asked to replace the steering rack at HASS and i think they quoted about 45000 for my accord. They tested the car by running the car over bad roads and lifted it on the jack to show me the leak. They also warned me that i could have a serious accident as i would loose steering control at a critical time. The oil level was near the low level after the test drive. However i continue to drive and top up the reservoir once in two weeks. I take care while going over the bad roads as that could be a factor aggravating the leak. The service advisor did not tell me anything about rack repair. I believe they would just change the seal, but is the procedure authorized by Honda?
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Old 26th November 2015, 06:44   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biju1971 View Post
Sumit, I was also asked to replace the steering rack at HASS and i think they quoted about 45000 for my accord. They tested .....
Hi, yes the rack is repaiarable and even Honda will do it for you only they will it send it outside i believe and charge you a permium for it. So best is to give outside Honda yourself and get it done at a much lower rate. They will change seals. In 2012 i had got it done from solitaire this time if needed a FNG. Kindly keep monitoring oil levels.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 26th November 2015 at 06:46.
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Old 26th November 2015, 12:30   #217
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
I may delay buying new tyres for now and continue with the goodyear.
I recently changed my Civic tyres, fitted with Continental 205/65/ R15 ContiComfortContact 5 tyres. I'm quite happy with the tyres.
Very less noise, braking is good in dry conditions & wet conditions
Paid 6100Rs - Each tyre
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Old 27th November 2015, 18:56   #218
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A little bit of revelation here and a bit of load off my chest. I don’t want people to think that the Civic is a lousy car to own because of the issues I faced. It’s a really good car, just as nothing is perfect it has it’s own flaws.

Looking back.

No I am not selling the car, not so soon anyways but what I want to point out is that the Civic is not really a bad car. People have driven it for more than a lac kms without hiccups. I guess the Civic’s main problems are related to hydraulics. The hydraulic engine mount and the hydraulic Rack/ Power steering. Most of the other issues with stuff like pads, rotors etc are common issues with other cars as well. Even the above two issues mentioned are fixable. The mount has been redesigned by Honda and is suppose to last long. Time will tell this. As for the rack and power steering leakage that is something I cannot understand how one can do any preventing maintenance to desist it from happening. However it only needs the seals to be changed and if one is lucky this will hold well.

As I go back and see I understand most of the expenses I occurred were because I took it to the wrong garage or the wrong HASS. I need not have taken the car to HASS when the first time the PS leaked. Hell I am quite sure the PS was not the problem then but only the rack was leaking and the power steering hose had failed. Honda (Solitaire) made me pay for the PS overhaul as well wherein I would have saved atleast 10k.

My garage guy Joe put in a defective mount which went kaput in a month or two. So that was 5k waste. The morons at Pai Auto santacruz replaced the clutch when it was not necessary and when the problem was with the clutch slave and master cylinder. That was 13.7 k down the drain for nothing. On top of that those freaks managed to bust the transmission seals causing a leakage which again cost me $$ to fix at Honda. They are also the cause of the flywheel judder on lower gears that i face daily.

I guess the Civic can be a great car to own and maintain provided you know whom to take it to when something goes wrong. Yes some parts are expensive like the a/c cooling coil, but this is not a critical component and can be replaced with a aftermarket option. So if you want to own a Civic I think you can go ahead and own one, just make sure it’s accident free and has been cared for fairly.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 27th November 2015 at 18:59.
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Old 27th November 2015, 19:08   #219
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

That is such an honest and neutral feedback despite the problems you have faced with your car. We thank you for sharing regular updates on your car throughout the ownership and providing us, the fellow Civicians a road map and a list of dos & don'ts.
I just feel that it is most of the time the incompetence of the service centers that cars throw regular issues than the car itself. Hope, it is the end of your woes and your car performs like how this Honda is actually meant to.

Regards,
Saket
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Old 8th December 2015, 13:57   #220
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The oil level in the power steering reservoir touchwood is not dropping. Still a small trip is coming up so bought a bottle of power steering fluid from Prakash stores at Rs 350.Incidently it's made by savita and is to be the OE equivalent.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151208_121717_1449562598345.jpg

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 8th December 2015 at 14:03.
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Old 13th December 2015, 11:45   #221
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Had gone for a one day trip to Lonavla with a friend and his family. There were total 7 people in the car with 5 adults and 2 kids. The rear of the car already burdened with the weight of the CNG looked miserable with 3 adults seated at the back. I do have the autorunners at the rear but i believe they are just 1 inch sized and am thinking about getting 2 inch at the rear to offset the weight of the tank and to prevent the rear from sagging viciously.

I managed to scrape 3 speed breakers yesterday as i was not careful on them and believe me it was a loud and sickening sound when i went over them. I tackled rest all speed breakers by the angle method and was able to drive over them although very slowly but i believe most Indian cars and hatchbacks probably will scrape the bottom with a full load of 5 passengers and luggage in the boot. I was concerned the tyres may rub against the lower edges of the wheel well where they come close to the mud guards under heavy load and vertical movement while travelling but thankfully this did not happen. A moron managed to bump the rear bumper at the traffic snarl leading to the expressway toll misalinging it again but i managed to push it back in place and now there is almost no sign that a car bumped into it. The rear suspension felt was it had reached it's maximum travel and bump stops while driving over sections like bridge expansion joints etc forcing me to lift off the gas pedal whenever i went over such adulation's on the road. Overall speeds did not exceed 75-80 kmph as i played it safe while driving with such full capacity. If anyone has been to Tiger point in Lonavala they will know what kind of steep turns and twists are there on the hills. I was afraid of stalling the car on the bends so i switched off the CNG and tackled the hills on gasoline.

Meanwhile the CNG has started to act up. It stalled 3 times in traffic last night returning all with a/c. I checked for same issue while driving with petrol and found that it was not stalling. Seems i may have to visit the CNG tuner in the coming days.

Some pics from the trip.

View from Tiger Point

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151212_120045.jpg

View from Bhushi dam.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151212_135408.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151212_135414.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20151212_135923.jpg
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Old 2nd January 2016, 19:23   #222
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As mentioned before in my earlier posts Honda had diagnosed a steering rack leakage in the last service. I was monitoring the level of fluid in the Power steering reservoir and though not very obvious but I can see that the level is dropping marginally. I haven’t topped it and checked again but I peeked under the car body and saw that the right side rack area is a bit wet and oily. Below are pics of the underbelly of the car. I also took a video of the under of the car by sliding the mobile under the car in recording mode.

Taken from the front of the car.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-rack_leak_1.jpg

Screen grabs of the video taken.

Notice the wetness.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-rack_leak_grab1.png

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-rack_screen_grab_2.png

So this will be the second time for rack to be needing a overhaul . Well I guess I will be starting the new year with repairs on the car. Honda is quoting 18k for same so will not be going to them. Will be trying out a new garage and will post the experience later. Hopefully I won’t run a bill of more than 10k this time but let’s see what happens. Again, as usual, keeping fingers crossed.
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Old 10th January 2016, 20:43   #223
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Had given the car to Devabhai in Chembur (A good 19-20 kms away from my home) for the rack repair. Thanks to Bhpian Genesis for the reference. Devabhai quoted 6.5k for the rack. I handed over the keys and the car to him after a brief test drive. The car was overnight with him for 2 days. Along with same he diagnosed the broken sub-frame mount & bad brake pads for the front which were on their way out. Both the other two things were diagnosed by Honda as well so it was nothing news to me. I asked him to put in Nissin Brake pads at the front and told him to replace the mount only if it was not more than 3k in cost. He was able to procure the pads and the mount for a reasonable cost and replaced same.

Total cost for all the work done was 13430 Rs.
Rack repair – 6500
Nissin Brake pads – 3150
Sub-frame mount – 2530
Disc skimming -400
Power steering oil- 350
Brake pads Labor- 500

Honda had quoted 18k just for rack repair so for less than the cost of rack repair at Honda I got 3 jobs done.

The front discs were skimmed and alignment was also done (450), cost of which was included in the rack repair amount. I had also asked for the misaligned rear bumper to be fitted back properly and he did a very good job with same. The steering wheel had to be opened, believe me I had never seen the Civic’s steering wheel being opened before at any alignment jobs. Seems the steering was not keeping straight while the wheels were. So they disconnected the battery, disconnected the air bag and adjusted the steering.

All in all decent work was done though there were some goof ups. The tie end rods were put on the wrong side by Deva’s assistant since they were marked wrong. The tie rod which should have been put on right was marked as “L” and the one on the left was marked as “R”. This became apparent when they were trying to get the car to the alignment shop and the steering just wouldn’t turn. Deva asked his assistants to swap the left and right tie rods and the steering just turned fine. I later on verified with images from the web for the Civic’s tie rods and they matched the position in which they are fitted now.

Another mistake made by his assistants were that they filled the power steering reservoir to almost at the top and when I reached home and opened the bonnet I found the oil had spilled and was also smeared on the belt below and at the top of the bonnet as well. I removed the excess oil next day so that it’s just as the top “Max” level. Another thing I was not that happy about that the lower of the rack was not cleaned and still looks oily as If it’s leaking but I guess nobody is perfect and even though I found the cleanliness part was shabby i found the jobs undertaken were well done

Some observations after the repair.

The steering now feels firm and a bit on the hard side but feels good to hold.

When the car was started first time during the day there will be a distinct shudder which now is gone, I believe this is due to the replaced mount.

There is no more power steering whine now during cold starts. This was present at before too.

The clutch judder while in reverse has significantly reduced, I believe this is due to the mount as well maybe because the engine and tranny are more aligned with each other due to the new mount. I am simply guesstimating this and it might not be a fact.

The metallic thunk sound, was heard once while going over my usual road where I take a right turn and the right wheel goes over a pothole but I believe the intensity has reduced to a much lower degree. Again I believe the new mount is the reason behind this but I will still verify this over the next few days.

The car now feels much tight and newer and I have found myself trying to push it harder and faster now that the rack is repaired and has 6 months warranty :-)


Some pics .

The old busted Sub-Frame mount.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-civic_sub_frame_mount.jpg

The skimmed discs.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-discs_skimmed.jpg

The tie rod being replaced.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-tie_rod1.jpg

The tie rod. This is the right side. Notice the “L” marked on the rod.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-tie_rod_l.jpg

The bumper refitted and now looks factory fitted.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-bumper.jpg

The steering opened for the alignment job.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-steering_adjustement.jpg

The oil level now in the reservoir.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-20160109_084915.jpg

Also picked up a water spray for 50 bucks to clean the insides of the bonnet etc for 50 bucks. Bought this from the guys who sell stuff at signal’s etc.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-water1.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 1,00,000 km up!-water2.jpg

So in the end i again spent a sizable packet at the beginning of the year and i am just tired of thinking what the rest of the year might bring. But whatever work done except maybe the rack which is dubious the other stuff like pads, mount would last 2 years min so i have those fewer things to worry about.
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Old 11th January 2016, 20:48   #224
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Great, Sumeet.

You have taken care of the big expenses in the beginning. Wishing you many trouble-free miles in 2016.
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Old 11th January 2016, 23:10   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
The metallic thunk sound, was heard once while going over my usual road where I take a right turn and the right wheel goes over a pothole but I believe the intensity has reduced to a much lower degree. Again I believe the new mount is the reason behind this but I will still verify this over the next few days.
Just to update, the thunk noise is very much still there and it presented itself in all it's glory when i took a U-turn and the right wheel went over a pothole. So it's not the sub-frame mount which is the culprit and i getting surer that it's the ball joint hitting the brake disc which might not be much cause for concern. Anyways i don't have the necessary resources (also known as money) to change the ball joints while they are still in good condition so i am not going to bother with it for now or even in the near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skdking View Post
Great, Sumeet.

You have taken care of the big expenses in the beginning. Wishing you many trouble-free miles in 2016.
Yes King, i decided to fix the stuff while i could afford to do so now rather than wait for the rack leakage problem to grow more serious :-)
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