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Old 21st June 2015, 08:24   #196
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

I blogged too soon. I went downstairs to check if the speedo was on or not and lo behold.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150621_080446.jpg

The speedo is playing hide and seek with me. I held the passenger door ajar and wide and tapped the bottom to drain the water etc if any and after sometime the speedo display light went off again.

Meanwhile the passenger side lower carpet area has got wet again. Checked for leakages at the windshield but could not find any.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150621_080740.jpg


A couple of random pics of the car.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150608_085327.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150621_080931.jpg
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Old 28th June 2015, 08:06   #197
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

I had gone to HASS on friday to let them have a look at the speedo issue. On reaching when the HASS advisor Mr Ganesh started the car it started to judder and shudder. It was already on petrol mode since i had switched off the CNG upon reaching the HASS station. I told them to take look at the sound as well. They came back to me saying that the spark plugs needed changing. As for the speedo, they ran a diagnostic and said that the speedo needs to be changed. But Mr Ganesh advised me not to spend so much on the cluster and to leave it as it is as long as it is working. I said i will get back to him if i decided i needed to get the speedo cluster changed. Total charge was 353 for the scanning.

The car had done more than 17 to 18k on the CNG with existing spark plugs. I should have changed them at max 15k itself. So i booked a appointment with Suraj Auto Gas for saturday and carried with me a set of 4 NGK spark plugs BKR5E-11 (pic below, 380 Rs for 4). They replaced the plugs and did the tuning. However when i had came in the evening to collect the car they said that the car is giving some jerks while driving and i might need to leave the car overnight for a computer check. I told them HASS during my last service had said the same thing and that they had advised to look into the ignition coils. I told Suraj gas i would be asking HASS to replace the coils if necessary during my next service due in August (suddenly 4.5 a piece ignition coil seems reasonable and worthy expenditure rather than spending 13k on that speedo cluster) and after that they can do the computer check. I did notice some shuddering in second gear while driving yesterday however during my highway run to office the car seems quite ok.

The NGK spark plug no

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150627_195131.jpg

Meanwhile, it has not rained on Saturday in Mumbai and it had been a dry day. Guess what happened. The speedo display issue has seem to be gone. Let me point out that i don't think it has resolved permanently but for now the issue has gone. It all started in the week on Friday where it rained like hell. With a dry spell the display issue seems to be have subsided but i am quite sure it will be back once it gets wet. But i have more or less decided i will not be spending 13k on getting a new cluster. I observed that the battery was healthy (touchwood) even with the display on/off overnight. I keep checking the battery every 1-2 days and make sure it's ok. (It's a Amaron where it has the display window where it show's the battery status). Lets see now what happens later.
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Old 14th July 2015, 08:16   #198
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

The car completes 4 years with me today. The ODO reads 65300. It's been eventful, the past year. Suspension overhaul, mount change etc. The car has been driven for close to 30k kms totally by me. The Brigestone tires seems they will last another 10k kms at least though some cracks have appeared here and there. Will be giving the car for a major service at Honda at the completion of 68K kms. Last year this day the odo was at 49.5k kms so that around 16k kms done in a year.

Was reading articles on how cars can last close to 200000 miles with proper care and preventive maintenance. I have plans to keep this car for quite a while till fixing stuff becomes non-economical. Already my driving pattern has changed for longevity rather than few moments of pleasure which only accelerates the wear and tear of the car (though i do have some fast moments but they have become rarer now). I haven't pushed the car past 90kpmh for a long time now. Speeds hover around 65 to 70 mostly as the heavy repair bills make for light footed driving. I have spent 15 to 33k on repairs at times and in no mood to spend such amounts but only time will tell.

Some problems still remain with the car. The thunk noise is very much there even after changing to a redesigned mount. Another possible source of the noise is as one bhpian had pointed out could be the lower ball joints brushing against the brake disc cover. Honda as not able to diagnose the cause and i would have to take it up in the next service. The Auto tensioner rhythm is still there which also stops me from pushing the car beyond 2000 rpm range. I just hope the belt does not give way. Honda guys said that it's not necessary to change this as of now so still living with it though there is constant doubt in the back of my mind.
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Old 14th July 2015, 13:30   #199
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
The car completes 4 years with me today.
Congratulations on owning a beautiful car!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Suspension overhaul, mount change etc. The car has been driven for close to 30k kms totally by me.
The way I see it, the Civic is a car that can last long, really long, if the usage is restricted within the city or out on good, 4-landed highways. Give it some slack and there are high chances for things to go wrong. Beyond all that though, it is one car that makes you grin every time you sit behind the wheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Last year this day the odo was at 49.5k kms so that around 16k kms done in a year.
That's quite some running. Now I know why you got it converted to run on CNG.

Enjoy your stint with the car. Your ownership thread has been extremely useful to me personally and one of the most-diligently updated threads on Civic. A special thanks for that!
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Old 14th July 2015, 14:39   #200
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
The car completes 4 years with me today. .......
Congratulations, Sumeet.

Wish you many more miles.

Your thread is very educative and also reflects your passion for your Civic.

Best wishes.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 08:59   #201
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

@Arvi and @Skdking thank you for your kind words.

I had given the car for a 60k major service last week. The odo has crossed 67k mark. Last oil change was done in Feb at around 58k decided to go ahead with the service a 1k earlier. Touchwood no major problems with car except that it’s jerking a bit mostly in CNG. This has happened more so after last time I got the spark plugs changed at Suraj auto gas. I have to give them the car next week (for 2 days this time) to resolve the jerking problem.

Jerking issue

Initially I was under impression the ignition coils were on their way out and that was the reason for the jerks etc. Bhpian SaurabhKum suggested that I should avoid replacing the coils and get the spark plug gap adjusted properly. Also I noticed the jerking is not much on petrol, infact on a proper warmed up engine the car is smooth on petrol but does jerk and is at the verge at stalling in CNG mode at times. I did notice some shuddering in the morning today on a cold engine but I am hoping it’s just a bit of morning sickness for the car. Suraj had mentioned to me earlier that they would need to do ECU setting to resolve the jerk issue.

Bill details

The total bill came to 10,555 Rs. This included oil change, oil filter change, transmission oil change, brake fluid change etc. I could have done away with the transmission fluid but I found the oil used while changing the clutch in December was not upto the mark and the gear shifts did not felt smooth and were a bit notchy. After the oil was replaced it feels a bit better than before. Along with the above mentioned items the throttle body was also cleaned along with injector cleaning & a HDS (Honda diagnostic) scan. I had also asked them to change the brake fluid which I believed was never changed for the 4+ years the car was with me. Thankfully Honda did not report any need for disc skimming or pad replacing which I thought might be needed. Actually I would feel some shuddering of the steering wheel while driving downwards on a slope and I would hit the brakes above 55Kmph. This happened occasionally so I guess the disc replacement for now is not needed. I also bought in a new air filter for Rs 400 prior to sending the car to Honda. The OE filter which Hass sells costs 1100 Rs so that’s a saving of Rs 700.

Test drive and reported issues

In my last services I had complained to Honda regarding a metallic thunk which could be heard when driving over potholes when the wheel was mostly at an angle. ie while turning. This time too I reported the same issue so my Hass advisor sent me along with a technician for a test drive. We drove over some rough surfaces for a while but the sound was not apparent during those drives. Even I took the wheel and tried but again the sound was not very evident to the technician even though I could make it out. We drove for around 30 mins and the technician stopped the car to inspect the suspension. He arrived at the conclusion since the shocks were new as I had mentioned this to him he does not see any issue with the suspension and possibly some CNG part was loosely fitted and causing the issue. I decided to leave it as such and take it up later when the problem becomes more apparent as it was getting difficult to diagnose same without opening up the entire front end. Honda too did not report anything during service that something was amiss.

The auto tensioner noise was something I had asked to be looked into even during the last service. Again my Hass advisor refuted the same that it’s not loud enough to warrant a change and that we can carry on for now. So I took his word and decided to drop the issue for now. He did however mention that the a/c compressor bearing was making some noise and might need some looking into. When I asked him how much it would cost, he quietly whispered it’s better to get it done from outside :-)

So I have driven the car for 30K+ kms. 10k on petrol and 20k+ on CNG. Let’s do some math.

Cost of CNG fitting – 57K
Kms done – 20K+

Running cost if above 20k was done in purely petrol with an estimated & optimistic average of 13.5 kmpl and average fuel price 68 Rs it would have cost me 20000/13.5 = 1481 litres of fuel X 68 Rs = 100740 Rs
For CNG running cost for 20k at an average of 20Km per Kg and CNG price of Rs 43.45 is 20000/20 = 1000 Kgs of CNG X 43.45 = Rs 43450. So the difference is RS 57250. I can safely say that I have broken even with the CNG. Let me know if you guys think otherwise as maths is not my thing. I would also like to mention that I use up a 1000 Rs of petrol every month. We can safely deduct a 1000 kms from the 20k done and recalculate for purely CNG run and the cost still comes out at around 41k rs. Yes I do that so the car does not get used to being run on CNG only and also has a decent run on petrol as longevity is what I am expecting out of this car. I want to keep it as long as possible and hope I don’t have to spend the earth to maintain it.


Below are some random pics of the car.

Odo reading at time of service.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-odo.jpg

Details of the bill.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-bill.jpg

Random pics.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-pic2_int.jpg
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-pic3_int.jpg
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-pic1.jpg

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 23rd August 2015 at 09:02.
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Old 30th August 2015, 11:35   #202
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

Had given the car on Fri to Suraj auto to resolve the jerk issue. Got back the car on sat evening, it was kept overnight to do the computer setting. The jerking issue has more less reduced and the car is smoother compared to earlier. Fuel prices for petrol are slowly coming down a bit and I am get tired of having to go the fuel pump every 3 days to fill up CNG. I was thinking of running the car 50% on petrol and 50% on CNG since in spite of the savings etc the petrol mode is just more fun to drive and this is a fact. The car is definitely more responsive on petrol than in CNG and acceleration is also quicker.

In my daily commute of 60 kms there is a significant amount of highway driving. I take the SCLR to reach Airoli via the eastern express highway. So what I could is to run the car on CNG till I reach the eastern express highway and the switch to petrol mode once I hit the highway. What this would do is, aid in the preservation of healthy life of the engine which would not be subject to continuous running on CNG and also decrease my trips to the fuel pump to mostly once a week. I know people have run CNG cars for thousands of kms and still have a healthy engine life but I want to be just sure. Even now I use up around 1000 buck of fuel every month for petrol.

After running around 20k+ kms on CNG I believe I have recovered the cost of the CNG kit. I would try this 50% running method for a month and see how much costs I incur. I do have calculated same as a estimation and if I am correct and the car gives me a healthy 13kmpl in petrol mode I believe it would cost me just 1200 to 1500 Rs more to run the car on 50% petrol which is not bad at all. My monthly run is 1400 kms (min) and my CNG average comes to a good 20 km per kg with a running cost of 3000 for CNG, 1000 bucks for petrol and 1165 for the Airoli toll. I fill 2000 bucks of petrol which lasts around 2 months. So if I were to do 700 kms on Petrol at 13kmpl it would cost me around 3700, another 700 kms on CNG would cost me 1800 which comes to 6700 against 5200 if run mostly on CNG. The whole idea behind this is as I mentioned is to preserve the engine health in the long run and reduce the no of trips to the fuel pump so letís see how it goes. It all depends on the highway mileage I get from the car
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Old 6th September 2015, 20:05   #203
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After getting back the car from Suraj I observed the jerking nature had reduced but I found the engine chocked and lethargic to respond. I decided to wait for a while for it to settle down a bit after the CNG ECU setting was done but even after 2 3 days and 100 to 120 kms of driving the car felt the same sluggish and the jerks re-appeared. I called up Mr Jain who suggested that I give the car for another couple of days for a re-check to which I initially agreed. He hinted maybe the coils may need looking into.

Meanwhile Bhpian SaurabhKum advised me not to change coils without first getting the spark plugs gap adjusted. He had an issue with his car which was resolved by putting back the OE spark plugs and getting the gap adjusted to 0.8 mm. I decided to follow suit and instead of going to Suraj I booked an appointment with Honda after confirming that they had a feeler gauge to measure the plug gap. I went to Honda on Fri with the OE spark plugs and got the gap adjusted to 0.8 mm and we went for a test drive. Now the technician observed that there was still jerking in CNG at first. I took a test drive myself and found that the engine had become smooth and I observed no jerks in during my drive. Satisfied I paid the bill and went home. On my drive back home I found out that the car had become much smoother on CNG and ultra-smooth on Petrol.

Next day I went in for a 30 km to and fro drive to Kandivali for some work on the western express highway. I drove the car in both and petrol and CNG mode and observed the jerks were still there more so in CNG. In petrol maybe minute jerks were there but overall I have found the car to be much drivable than before. This is the first time I have driven the car with OE spark plugs and genuine Honda OE synthetic oil. The difference is very noticeable. The accelerator response is sharp and crisp in petrol mode. The car is livelier. The auto tensioner sound somehow has reduced though itís very much there but fainter. The rpms at various speeds have drop down a bit and the car idles better. All this difference is because of the Iridium tip spark plugs. I canít believe that I was driving on those horrible standard NGK spark plugs for 20k + kms. I will be sticking with the OE plugs only. As for the jerks, I drove the car another 30 kms one way to Airoli and noticed the jerkiness is there but is subdued. I guess I will wait for the OE sparkplugs to set in for a week and then report any more issues etc.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150904_144249.jpg
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Old 13th September 2015, 20:32   #204
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The Emporis air pump blew my fuse the other day while topping the carís tires. Normally I do not fill using the pump but was keeping it as a emergency unit only but in the recent months I have had the tires valve leaking air more than once leading to drop in pressure. All the times the leak was due to the valve pin at fault most probably it was being manhandled by the air pump attendant so I decided to fill air once every 2 weeks using the pump. Last time I filled the air the pump worked well and I did not face any issues. This time however I kept the pump running a bit longer than 30 seconds which I believe led to the fuse blow out. I guess the trick to top up is start and stop the pump after say 20-30 seconds max.

More details on the fuse are here.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3800000

I had bought two fuse from the Prakash stores. One is doing service and the other I have kept as spare.

Notice the 15 AMP fuse which was bought as a spare and the fuse puller used to remove the fuse. The drivers door has to be opened wide and one has to do gymnastics to get the fuse out of the fuse box located under the hood.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150912_092106.jpg


I had taken the car to Straight Line for itís periodic alignment and balancing. Again this time they came up saying the ball joints are of improper size and I might need to change them or modify. I had replaced the front suspension components last November and the car has done more than 15k Kms after that. I told them this fact and told them that if the existing setup is not going to eat into the tyres they could adjust however they could as per the existing ball joint. I might have this looked later, though in the distant future. I plan to change the joints once the life of the current tyres is over and then have the joints replaced before buying new tyres. The Bridegstones now have done around 30k kms and are expected to last another 20k kms. Interestingly Straight Line did not notice any issue with the Joints last time i was there for Wheel alignment job.

Pics of the rear shocks taken while doing the balancing job. Thankfully no oil leakages are there. Notice the Autorunners doing their duty. Inspite of these i feel the car is still a but droopy at the rear due to the CNG tank weight.

Rear left.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-rearleft.jpg

Rear right.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-rearright.jpg

Also about the thunk metallic sound which was coming inspite of changing the engine mount, I think the culprit is the hood support bar which has play in it.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-hoodsupport.jpg

I am assuming this thing is the one which is making the noise when I take the car over a pothole at the turn. I am not entirely certain but what I did was I glued a rubber piece between the area where the hood support is affixed to the carís body to dampen the sound. I still do hear the thunk sound but I also believe it has reduced.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-rubberinsert.jpg

I have observed the thunk sound now comes only when I tackle larger potholes at turns. Maybe I could try to dampen or pad the support bar in more ways but am not quite sure how.

The CNG jerks are also subduing but are still there. Again there are no jerks in petrol mode but I have learned to drive in CNG in such a way that the jerks go unnoticeable. The minor shuddering of the car typically happens at 1.5k rpm and around 2k rpm. What I do is drive the longer duration in lower gears while in CNG and shift at 2k rpm. What this does prevents the car from jerking and gives a overall smooth ride
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Old 14th September 2015, 21:48   #205
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 3rd October 2015 at 12:55.
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Old 25th September 2015, 01:14   #206
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I was longing to get double USB charger for the car. The Transcend Drive pro cameraís adaptor would hog the 12 volt charger leaving me with no option to charge the mobile if needed other than the USB stereo. I would always postpone the decision to buy a dual USB charger thinking it might blow the fuse in the car. But with my tryst with the 12 volt fuse before made me confident that even if the dual USB adaptor killed the fuse I was experienced enough to fit it back. Hard wiring is also a option but I just donít want to modify anything else in the car.


So I ordered a Capdase charger from Amazon. It has a built in real time voltage display which shows the strength of the battery. The display changes from 13.5 to 14.5 while driving depending on conditions like idling, a/c on off etc. I think this is a good way to keep tabs on the alternator charging and the battery health. Fact is I got this charger more for this feature rather than the double USB one. At engine off the charge with a healthy battery is around 12.7. Total cost for this was 1200 bucks and I think itís worth it.



Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-capdase1.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-capdase2.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-capdase3.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-capdbase4.jpg



The display with the the engine off.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-capdase_eng_off.jpg



The display while idling.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-capdase_running.jpg
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Old 25th September 2015, 01:33   #207
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Here are some pics I took while installing the secondary cable for the dual USB. Since the camera has needs a mini USB I had to buy a new mini USB cable around 3 meters in length. Also the cable that you can see in pics failed to work with camera and I had to get another one. The installation steps remain the same.

Make sure the cable is at least 3 meters in length.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_143813.jpg

Tuck it inside the upper portion of the roof gently.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_143849.jpg
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_143854.jpg

Poke it inside all the way till the A pillar. Always keep the location of the cable at the passenger side only as you don't want it to fall down and distract the driver if kept on the driver side.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144042.jpg

Gently open the cover of the A pillar and tuck the cable inside.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144127.jpg

Route it to the rubber beading at the side of the door.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144206.jpg

You can use a object like a old expired credit card to open the gaps of the rubber beading.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144330.jpg

Route it at the bottom.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144452.jpg

Tuck it inside the plastic casing below the passenger side dashboard. Use a adhesive tape if needed to secure the cable from falling down.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144601.jpg

Bring the cable out near the center console and it's ready for use.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144609.jpg

Gently put back any rubber beading that may have unwrapped while installing the cable.
Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150921_144819.jpg

Meanwhile..

The washer had gone for a weekís vacation and the car became really dirty since I too did not find time to give it a wash.


Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20150923_080745.jpg

The car now seems to have a wheel bearing problem and i think i would be going in for a change of same. There is a distinct whup whup like sound while driving post 40 kmph and gets a bit louder as i go faster. Had inquired with Honda for the bearings cost. Front one is 7k a piece and the rear is 9k. Called up Prakash stores and they quoted NTN make at 1350 bucks. I guess i will be going the after market way as Honda prices are simply unbearable.

I will be going to Hass and get it confirmed as to which bearing has gone along with a ignition coil check. The jerk issue is still there on CNG and i have noticed rare jerks even on petrol mode. So i will ask Hass to check the coils and i can take a call as to what to do. So heading in for another major expenses bearings, coils. I wonder when all this will stop.
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Old 25th September 2015, 08:28   #208
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

I had replaced the rear bearing for my accord at a FNG. However he had changed the entire assembly as the bearing alone could not be sourced.I have the old rotor assembly and did lot of search but could not get the bearing. I can see the bearing number and googled for it but did not make much headway. If you get the bearing alone the old one can be removed and the new one fitted in a press shop. I think my entire rotor assembly costed around 4000 rupees.
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Old 28th September 2015, 17:50   #209
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A update on the bearing issue, had taken the car to Hass for a checkup they diagnoised same as tire noise. They verfied by removing the tires. Relieved no bearing replacement.
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Old 10th October 2015, 08:00   #210
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Default re: Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd & Completed 80k on the odo

On my drives on the eastern express highway the tire noise is very noticeable. The sound appears and disappears on different road surfaces so I am assuming (and as confirmed by Honda) that it is related to the tires only. I went to straight line yesterday and had the front left tire from where the sound comes from moved to the rear left and brought the rear left to the front. Now the sound has gone down a bit but itís still there. The tires probably need changing and have done around 33k kms. Post 40k I might replace them. They have developed minor cracks which are not deep but probably will warrant a change in the next 6-7k kms. I guess I wonít be going in for an alignment/ balancing job soon as I donít see a point in tire rotation alignment etc since the tires are on their way out unless of course there is some pulling or wobbling while driving.

Some random pics of the car.

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20151003_143439.jpg

Honda Civic Independence : CNG'd. EDIT: 90,000 km up!-20151003_143509.jpg
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