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Old 19th August 2011, 17:18   #76
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Default Re: The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last

I don't see where we got comparing the Innova & Fortuner! To put it in a line, the Fortuner appeals to the heart while the Innova to the head. They make for my favourite SUV & MUV respectively

Just some minor corrections:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
The all-time 4WD translates into great highway demeanor.
If you ever drive in a style that necessitates the AWD in on regular tarmac, my advice to you is : DON'T! The Fortuner is NOT built for hard handling, cornering or any such situation. Keep it sedate in corners with an SUV.

Quote:
I am no fan of auto transmission and the gear box is just fantastic with added high ratios for some off-roading. The docile plain gear box of the Innova is no match for this beast.
Both feel the same to me...identical long throws & shift quality.

Quote:
This is a more practical approach tha a full fledged captain seat as it just requires a flick to put the arm rest fold away to accommodate the 3rd member in our Indian extended family.
While I agree that the Innova's captain seats cannot accommodate a third passenger, I can assure you that they are SUPREMELY comfortable, especially when compared to the Fortuners. One is the awesome seats, second is the Innova's better ride quality (or the Fortuner's lack of). I stated in my review itself of the irony that the 1/2 price Innova is a more comfortable tourer.

Quote:
The ground clearance is phenomenally higher for the TFort which is understandable. 221mm to 176mm.
The higher stance also results in a stiffer suspension (to control roll-over) and more body roll.

Last edited by GTO : 19th August 2011 at 17:24.
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Old 19th August 2011, 17:28   #77
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Default Re: The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
To put it in a line, the Fortuner appeals to the heart while the Innova to the head.

The Fortuner is NOT built for hard handling, cornering or any such situation.

Thank you GTO ji for correcting some of the misconceptions I had. I am still in a learning phase with this vehicle but mature comments like yours are always welcome.

Your first line sums it all for me. At my age when I have tried all the sedans and MUV's, a little bit of Upgrade was on the cards. The image attached with the Innova (err that of a Taxi, which you wont dispute, I hope) was a big turn off for me. It is a extremely comfortable vehicle, no doubt, but after having seen and tasted the Fortuner in flesh, I am more than happy that I did not let my head rule in this instance (which usually does in all my decisions).

I am not a hard handling man, and I know the limitations of my vehicle and keep my expectations realistic. As I commented on another post on the same subject, a SUV will not and cannot handle like a Sedan. But then, neither can an Innova.

The Sedan choice is still to come in the family to fulfill those needs and the BMW 320D is shortlisted, though it may change...

Life is too short to be thinking by the head all the time (otherwise an ALTO is the most practical vehicle for India). Get out there and Enjoy it... By the time we realise, sometimes life passes us by, and we are left thinking WHAT IF?

Last edited by dkaile : 19th August 2011 at 17:46.
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Old 19th August 2011, 22:06   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Your first line sums it all for me.
In terms of satisfaction & pride, if you have the budget, you will be way happier with the Fortuner. I don't think there is any doubt on that. The way I look at the Innova is utility only; use it till 2.0 lakh kms and then flip. On the other hand, a Fortuner would be a purchase for life. It's a "truck" that you'd always want to keep in your family year after year. Much like people use their Landcruisers abroad.

How the car makes you feel...THAT is the most important criteria.

Quote:
The image attached with the Innova (err that of a Taxi, which you wont dispute, I hope) was a big turn off for me.
Hey looks count . My best friend Nick wouldn't be caught dead in an Innova, no matter how much I praise the MUV to him.

Quote:
I am more than happy that I did not let my head rule in this instance (which usually does in all my decisions).
We're car nuts after all! If I thought with my head, that rusty ol' Jeep of mine would be long gone.

Quote:
The Sedan choice is still to come in the family to fulfill those needs and the BMW 320D is shortlisted, though it may change...
If I may suggest, wait for the Laura vRS (coming up on the 31st of August). It'll blow your mind in terms of driving pleasure.

Quote:
Life is too short to be thinking by the head all the time (otherwise an ALTO is the most practical vehicle for India). Get out there and Enjoy it... By the time we realise, sometimes life passes us by, and we are left thinking WHAT IF?
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Old 20th August 2011, 00:50   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
@Buffetfan - Oops, that's a lot of real estate you have taken up there, but most of the points you are raising have already been discussed or are not convincing any Fortuner Owner. Like I said before, you got to own a Fortuner first, before you can start commenting on the engine etc. Mods- We may shift the Comparo posts (including mine) to another topic if required as I didn't realise it would create a nuisance on my ownership thread. I request members to stick to Fortuner Ownership Thread comments. Thanks for understanding.
The fortuner owner was already convinced and hence he bought the Fortuner. The Innova owner (even if he had the cash) was convinced when he bought the Innova. So the point is not to convince each other on this thread but to discuss.

In my view, one does not own the fortuner to comment. A few hours of drive on a varying terrain is enough. I am unsure if you owned an Innova for a few years before you wrote your comparison piece?

As for the comparison who started it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
In terms of satisfaction & pride, if you have the budget, you will be way happier with the Fortuner.
Dont completely agree as it implies that one would generally buy the Fortuner if one had the budget - after all who does not want to trade money for happiness?

Agree that for many the vehicle adds to the pride, and hence happiness but for some it really does not matter that much, even if you have the budget, so long as it provides all the comforts at the right price point. Innova suits them pretty well.

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Old 20th August 2011, 06:23   #80
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Default Re: The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last

@buffetfan - I really fail to see the need of your previous post when all that has been said and done with in the previous posts. You don't need to agree with us, but then neither do we. You mean to say it's sufficient for you to comment on the Fortuner after driving it for a few hours but not us who actually own it in flesh and blood. And we can't comment on the Innova till we own it?

Bottomline is that you had the need for the Innova and you bought that. You are happy with that and my best wishes for you. I had the need for the Fortuner and I bought that. I also feel that the Fortuner is and always will be in a league of it's own unmatched by the Innova. But hey, that's my point of view and you won't be able to convince me otherwise. And as you are also commenting on trading money for happiness, it's the best 7 lakhs extra I ever spent (and hey, its only 5 lacs, seeing the price differential in Bangalore/Hyderabad - Top end Innova is about 16L on road Bangalore - Source : Autocar). So it's not a matter of heart alone, some head went into where to buy it from and how to save money for the heart.

But in the end Toyota rules either way, and I love Toyota...

Last edited by dkaile : 20th August 2011 at 06:46.
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Old 20th August 2011, 08:41   #81
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Default Re: The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last

Congratulations mate on the Falcon!
I had somehow missed your thread but it's never too late right.
I loved your review, and how you narrowed down to the T-Fort.
You had some tempting vehicles in there. But in the end you made the right choice and i think it suits your needs perfectly.
Also proves that writing directly to the company insures you get the required attention and so the vehicle was delivered to you before time.
So the horn operates when you lock and unlock now? like Noops Fraulein?
Not getting into the T-Fort ~ Innova debate. It's purely a personal choice.
Wishing you many miles of joyful motoring with your Falcon!
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Old 20th August 2011, 13:01   #82
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Default Re: The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last

Forgot to reply to this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post

If we sometimes feel the Fortuner is overpriced then so is the Innova, comparatively.
Yes the Innova is definitely overpriced. Infact leaving the Etios, the only Toyota car which is reasonably priced with lots of features is the Altis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
And as you are also commenting on trading money for happiness, it's the best 7 lakhs extra I ever spent (and hey, its only 5 lacs, seeing the price differential in Bangalore/Hyderabad - Top end Innova is about 16L on road Bangalore - Source : Autocar). So it's not a matter of heart alone, some head went into where to buy it from and how to save money for the heart.
Hey its not fair comparing the OTR of the Innova V in Bangalore (which is the most expensive) to the OTR of the Fortuner in Meerut. If you compare the OTR of the Innova in Meerut the price difference will be more than 5l. That way we could compare the OTR of the Innova V in Bangy vs the OTR of the Fortuner in Thailand, and Id have to eat my words because the Innova would be a couple of lacs more than the Foruner.
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Old 20th August 2011, 14:03   #83
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@dkaile - Let me add that this is my last post on the comparison topic as I dont really want to continue the discussion further and take the focus away from the beautiful pics and the ownership thread you have started. I enjoyed the pics and really appreciate the effort that has gone in making this a nice thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
@buffetfan - I really fail to see the need of your previous post when all that has been said and done with in the previous posts. You don't need to agree with us, but then neither do we. You mean to say it's sufficient for you to comment on the Fortuner after driving it for a few hours but not us who actually own it in flesh and blood. And we can't comment on the Innova till we own it?
I dont believe that one needs to own. BTW, Look at your post below

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
@Buffetfan - ........... Like I said before, you got to own a Fortuner first, before you can start commenting on the engine etc.....
I am not the one saying that one needs to own the vehicle first before one can start commenting. I just asked you if you had owned the Innova before you did the comparo notes as you seemed to believe in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Bottomline is that you had the need for the Innova and you bought that. You are happy with that and my best wishes for you. I had the need for the Fortuner and I bought that. I also feel that the Fortuner is and always will be in a league of it's own unmatched by the Innova. But hey, that's my point of view and you won't be able to convince me otherwise. And as you are also commenting on trading money for happiness, it's the best 7 lakhs extra I ever spent (and hey, its only 5 lacs, seeing the price differential in Bangalore/Hyderabad - Top end Innova is about 16L on road Bangalore - Source : Autocar). So it's not a matter of heart alone, some head went into where to buy it from and how to save money for the heart.

But in the end Toyota rules either way, and I love Toyota...
I agree but are you saying that you bought the Fortuner in Meerut but Innova was available only in Bangalore? Both cities have different duty structure and hence different pricing.

@Akshay - if Altis is a reasonably priced vehicle in India then it is a steal in both Indonesia and Thailand where it is priced nearly 20% LESS than the Innova. I agree that the equipment level is lower in Innova (though acceptable in the VX model with climate control / steering mounted audio control and AMB/Airbags/MID etc. But the Innova requires a lot more metal to manufacture and my personal view is that it costs a bit more to manufacture as well, even with the slightly cheaper plastics that it has compared to the Altis.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 20th August 2011 at 14:08.
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Old 20th August 2011, 14:09   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
In terms of satisfaction & pride, if you have the budget, you will be way happier with the Fortuner. I don't think there is any doubt on that. The way I look at the Innova is utility only; use it till 2.0 lakh kms and then flip. On the other hand, a Fortuner would be a purchase for life. It's a "truck" that you'd always want to keep in your family year after year. Much like people use their Landcruisers abroad.

How the car makes you feel...THAT is the most important criteria.

Now that's how its said!
That GTO, just hits the spot.
I remember during our discussions about my then recently acquired T- Fort, how impressed you were regarding the utilitarian aspect of this car - combined with the T badged Engine which is a work horse.

@dkaile - thanks for enlightening me about the Auto Volume Leveler function in the ICE.
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Old 20th August 2011, 16:01   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
OTR of the Innova in Meerut the price difference will be more than 5l. That way we could compare the OTR of the Innova V in Bangy vs the OTR of the Fortuner in Thailand, and Id have to eat my words because the Innova would be a couple of lacs more than the Foruner.
OTR in Meerut of Innova is also about 15L. That's why I said the the head came into the picture to search a place so as to avail best possible value for the heart. Its an entirely different (and cumbersome) matter to think about importing the car from abroad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
I enjoyed the pics and really appreciate the effort that has gone in making this a nice thread.
Thanks. Keep enjoying on a positive note. I didn't have any intentions to hurt any Innova owner. Those were just personal musings on a personal ownership thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
In terms of satisfaction & pride, if you have the budget, you will be way happier with the Fortuner.
If I may suggest, wait for the Laura vRS (coming up on the 31st of August). It'll blow your mind in terms of driving pleasure.
Thanks for the lead. Will watch out for the vRS.
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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
thanks for enlightening me about the Auto Volume Leveler function in the ICE.
Pleasures all mine mate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Congratulations mate on the Falcon!
Also proves that writing directly to the company insures you get the required attention and so the vehicle was delivered to you before time.
So the horn operates when you lock and unlock now? like Noops Fraulein?
Thank you @mdsaab; Yes, it did pay dividend in my case on contacting the company directly.
The Horn operated on lock/unlock, but I have again put it on silent as I liked the silence indicator response better and also Discreet in and out of the house when the Frau is not looking... lolz

Last edited by dkaile : 20th August 2011 at 16:22.
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Old 20th August 2011, 17:40   #86
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Well, the Falcon had its first out of town outing today. I had been invited to my old MBA institute by it's Director (who is also a close personal friend) to give a guest lecture on 'Entrepreneurship' to the budding MBA 'children'. It was a privilege that the Falcon left town for the first time on such a honored alumni assignment.

But what a 'nightmare' that ride turned out to be. I did not expect the national highway to be totally pot holed ridden and washed away in parts on the meager 50kms stretch I went to. The heavy rains had taken their toll. And what a revelation the Falcon turned out to be. While most cars were struggling and huffing a puffing, the Falcon breezed through all this commotion with umpteen calm. I felt as I was soaring at an altitude higher than what I was normally used to. The high road clearance showed its true usage. I saw an Indica break its suspension in one of the potholes. Also came to the fore the advantage in being in a TFort as I was waved passed twice by the policemen on duty whereas I would have been stuck for at least 30 minutes more in the jams that followed had I been in any other vehicle. The TFort does have it's added perks.

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The Falcon with my Alma Mater in the background.

He incidentally had just bought a handsome Black (not my favorite color) Diesel Vento. And we had a nice chat discussing the pros and cons. I was surprised to hear it's FE of 20kmpl on diesel on the highway runs which sounds too good to be true. Mine was badly affected by the crawling traffic on the entire route and just gave about 10.5.

Last edited by dkaile : 20th August 2011 at 17:52.
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Old 20th August 2011, 19:46   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
While most cars were struggling and huffing a puffing, the Falcon breezed through all this commotion with umpteen calm. I felt as I was soaring at an altitude higher than what I was normally used to. The high road clearance showed its true usage.
What was the speed at which you were going thru the potholes? And how did the ride in the front feel like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
I was surprised to hear it's FE of 20kmpl on diesel on the highway runs which sounds too good to be true.
It is true ! The car has an ARAI FE of 21 or so. And with that it should be easily getting 20 kmpl on a neat highway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Mine was badly affected by the crawling traffic on the entire route and just gave about 10.5.
It always surprises me that SUVs manage almost the same FE both in City & Highways [difference of 1-2 kmpl] while sedans & hatchbacks manage an easy 7-8 kmpl difference. Why is it so?

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 20th August 2011 at 19:48.
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Old 21st August 2011, 07:28   #88
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What was the speed at which you were going thru the potholes? And how did the ride in the front feel like?

It is true ! The car has an ARAI FE of 21 or so. And with that it should be easily getting 20 kmpl on a neat highway.

It always surprises me that SUVs manage almost the same FE both in City & Highways [difference of 1-2 kmpl] while sedans & hatchbacks manage an easy 7-8 kmpl difference. Why is it so?
1. I was at 20-30kmph over the potholes as the traffic was a killer and barely moving. Seems the heavy rush to leave Delhi for the weekend holiday started early (Janmashtmi on Monday). I could barely cruise on some fair patches at 50-60kmph and only once or twice did I touch 80-90kmph on some good patches due to traffic. I always drive myself and was alone in the vehicle and the ride was better than my Corolla or my Qualis on such stretches. The height being a 'major' advantage on these type of roads.

2. I doubt if the ARAI figures are actually duplicated in day to day riding conditions. I find the Autocar test figures more near to the mark and they state 13 in the city and 17 on the highway for the Vento which come to roughly 15kmph overall which seems a more authentic figure. Our TForts have been giving (as per Generale's report) about 10 in the city and 13 on the highway which comes to about 11.5kmph overall which seems quite good comparatively seeing the size of the engine and vehicle. I just read the overall figure of the new Alto to be 16kmpl in Autocar on 'Petrol' so our TForts work out to be equivalent if not cheaper to run than an Alto.

3. I would not label that with all SUV's but can safely say that in case of Toyota even with their Sedan (the Corolla I own), the difference is usually only 1-2kmpl for me. My Corolla gives 11 in the city and 13 on the highway, same as my TFort which has the additional cost benefit of a diesel. I am not an expert in these matters but I presume this difference has more to do with the technology going into the engine like VVTi which supposedly gives a more stable mileage to such engines and difference is more in engines that don't use the variable valve technology. The diesel burners are immune to such issues and give a more stable efficiency comparatively. Today's Trip to Noida-Delhi-Faridabad for a weekend outing. Lets see how it performs on these rain washed roads.

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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:16   #89
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Default Meerut-Noida-Faridabad Trip - The 'Urban Jungle'

TRAVELOGUE - Meerut-Noida-Faridabad Trip - The 'Urban Jungle'

So, we embarked on the first family outing on the Falcon. The FE had taken a beating in the last few days due to over idling (checking out features) and local city driving in crawling traffic and had fallen to about 10.3. So we embarked of the first family outing, praying not to get in Traffic Jams and potholed road -

What Greeted immediately on leaving Meerut -

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A well paved and 6 laned Meerut Bye-pass was ready with multiple flyovers. It was now a toll road post Meerut, so we didn't need to pay anything.

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The Godwin 5 Star Hotel (first in Meerut) coming up on the bye-pass

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Subharti Medical College - Now churning out MBBS doctors locally

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Falcon's second home locally - The Grand Toyota dealership on the bye-pass, now ready for Sales and Service

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We could momentarily touch 90-100kmph speeds easily on the short bye-pass on the press of the accelerator but the pleasure was short lived. What we encountered next for a long 20-30km stretch was -

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Bad Bad road, pot-holed rain washed. Speeds dropped, traffic crawled, FE went for a hit...

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Then, a pleasant sight, good roads returned as we were nearing Delhi. And then we saw the 1st Metro station in UP - Vaishali (near Ghaziabad) - this is 'planned' to be stretched to Meerut. What a day that will be!

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Next, the Noida Highway. Pleasant as always.

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But the next site reminded me of Behenji Mayawati colossal 'wastage'

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Another view of the wastage. Note the Audi Q7 in the rear view. What a beast filled with technological advances! But I felt it's road presence was less than the Falcon's.

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Meanwhile the children on the back seat were merrily clicking away - Bagwati (from ZNMD)- lolz...

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We reached our final destination for the day - Great India Place, Noida - One of the biggest Malls in the NCR

What greeted me inside!!
The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last-bmw-x1-3.jpg
My beloved brand - BMW X1

The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last-bmw-x1-4.jpg

The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last-bmw-x1-interior.jpg
I was early at the mall and that helped me take an extensive look at the interiors and a demo of the SDrive. The car looks better in the photographs then in the flesh. The rear seat is really cramped. Boot space is just ok; the ground clearance is just about that of a Corolla; but to drive a BMW is just 'another thing all together'.

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On the way back the next day, we paid our en-route homage to Akshardham Temple. Notice the badly hit FE of just 10.2. We could hardly hit the 5th gear for not more than 10% of the entire trip. Due to the tall gearing, the Falcon hits the 4th gear at about 50kmph and the 5th at 65kmph. The FE finally dropped to 10.1 and the actual tank-to-tank mileage came to 9.25, which was disappointing to say the least.

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A better view of Akshardham Temple

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After re-fueling the efficiency hits a new high for a while of 16.4. However with better understanding of the Falcon, I could maintain a FE of over 13kmpl on my route back.

Some accessories were procured for the Falcon at GIP -
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A better FM transmitter was sourced to play my ipod. We got a fantastic deal on the Belkin (MRP Rs. 3787/-) of just Rs. 750/-. Sound quality is now quite there (though not the one from a cd) and a better overall experience.

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Close-up of the Belkin with batteries inserted (it also takes power from the 12V power point). A much better and professional quality display.

Finally
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Some cosmetics for the Falcon - The microfiber cloth really cleans the interiors and exteriors spotless and without dust retention. A nice tyre sidewall scrubber was procured. Formula 1 Carnauba Wax, a mini (read easily storable) Colin, some yellow dusters and the newly launched Kara Face wipes.

Afterthought -
The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last-toyota-fortuner-muffler-cutter.jpg
We also visited the our first choice dealership i.e. 36 Toyota, Faridabad, and had a nice chat with SA who had handled me there. He advised me to also attach this Muffler Cutter for a gleaming exterior for the Falcon (Rs. 1010/-). As his Service deptt. was closed due to janmashtmi, I shall be getting the same attached shortly on Falcon's 1st service at Grand Toyota, Meerut.

Aloha...

(PS - We all love our cars. And I respect all the others running on the roads. But when things turn ugly sometimes (as it did on General's topic recently) we feel sad, as most of the things are said light heartedly, with no intentions to malign any vehicle. Please forgive me in advance if any of my statements hurt anyone. I am here just to share and enjoy.)
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Old 23rd August 2011, 13:02   #90
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Default Re: The Millennium Falcon - Toyota Fortuner - The Raptor that is built to last

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
TRAVELOGUE - Meerut-Noida-Faridabad Trip - The 'Urban Jungle'
Hi dkaile,
That was a nice outing indeed. Mostly caught my eye for the goodies that you picked up for Falcon.
Must go to a accessories joint to get over the envy !

Now coming to some observations:
1. The 'huge' (?) difference between MID and tank to tank reading (10.1 Vs 9.25 KMPL) - even on the Admiral initially the difference was large but then as it settled down I think the difference has also narrowed. Do check periodically and let us know whether the readings settle down.

2. That muffler cutter - Any reason you picked it up now ? Only looks or some inherent benefits too ?

3. About the last paragraph - well, in open forums you always have a diverse range of opinions. As long as one realises that it is fine. No harm done !
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