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Old 8th January 2016, 16:59   #316
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

Thank you Amalji, I am overwhelmed by the fact that you actually took up my concern with someone at your dealership.

The workshop - Espirit Toyota, Noida is a scam for sure!

Thanks to your investigation, we know now that I was overcharged for front disc pad replacement. I will not be surprised if the disc pads have not been replaced at all because there is absolutely zero difference in braking even after pad replacement. When I complained about this to the SA, he said replacing pads wont improve braking - pads are replaced just to ensure thickness of pads. If I want braking to improve, I must get brake cylinders replaced was his reply.

When he mentioned mount lubrication for 2550+, I asked him the exact same question - "how much do the mounts cost?" and he said each one of them costs over 8k.

He told me, doors and hinges are not lubricated as part of service and I need to pay separately for it. Toyota is welcome to inspect my car, it was serviced 4 days ago and the hinges, battery terminals etc are bone dry!

Regarding clutch, I made the same point that isn't clutch replacement dependent on how one drives? (Because I have used several other cars without clutch overhaul well beyond 1lakh+ Kms) But the SA insisted that clutch replacement is part of service schedule at 1lakh kms.

I have been complaining about a noise which only appears between speeds of 80-85km/h in 5th gear and then goes away. The SA said the noise is coming from water pump, V belt and tensioner which cost 30k to replace. The car has never met with an accident (apart from a small crack in the bumper caused by hitting a dog 2 years ago).

It is certainly a case of cheating because I asked for wheel balancing and alignment too but it has not been performed. I had written to voc@toyota-kirloskar.co.in three days ago but have not heard back from them. I only received a callback from the same service advisor and it was pointless talking to him because he was adamant that all the information provided by him and billing done by him is correct.

i have attached the bill below, will PM the reg number to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
@ff1609 - I talked to Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery service lead and these are his inputs.
PS: He has read your posts here.
Attached Thumbnails
Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!-img_2966.jpg  

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Old 8th January 2016, 23:08   #317
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
Thank you Amalji, I am overwhelmed by the fact that you actually took up my concern with someone at your dealership.
I consider that as my responsibility as a bhpian. Team-bhp has stood courageous against cheating by dealers. Still remember the Skoda experience, where the scam was brought to the front page of team-bhp when Skoda threatened to sue team-bhp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
When I complained about this to the SA, he said replacing pads wont improve braking - pads are replaced just to ensure thickness of pads.
After all the lies he has said, this is one thing which is factually correct. You won't feel a difference with new brake pads. It will almost feel the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
If I want braking to improve, I must get brake cylinders replaced was his reply.
He is looking for another money generating way here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
When he mentioned mount lubrication for 2550+, I asked him the exact same question - "how much do the mounts cost?" and he said each one of them costs over 8k.
It costs just 3,000 ! Probably he wanted to push that so called synthetic lubricant for engine mounts which Toyota would never even have heard ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
He told me, doors and hinges are not lubricated as part of service and I need to pay separately for it. Toyota is welcome to inspect my car, it was serviced 4 days ago and the hinges, battery terminals etc are bone dry!
I have tried out the following dealerships ( either for my Etios or for my mother's Liva )
  • Nippon Toyota, Kazhakkuttom, Trivandrum
  • Nippon Toyota, Injakkal, Trivandrum
  • Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery, Kochi
  • Nippon Toyota, Nettoor, Kochi
  • Anamalais Toyota, Coimbatore
  • Anamalais Toyota, Salem
  • Nandi Toyota, Bangalore

Not even for a single time has any of these dealership charged me for door hinge lubrication!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
Regarding clutch, I made the same point that isn't clutch replacement dependent on how one drives? (Because I have used several other cars without clutch overhaul well beyond 1lakh+ Kms) But the SA insisted that clutch replacement is part of service schedule at 1lakh kms.
Blunt Lie from the SA here.

I've emailed the sales team in Espirit Toyota about this incident. Let me see, how they handle it. Will take future course of action based on their reaction.

Attaching the email that I had sent them below.

Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!-mail_01.png
Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!-mail_02.png
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Old 10th January 2016, 07:09   #318
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Default re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

Amalji regards for showing great interest in fellow Team_Bhpian's cause. Hats off

I need your opinion / advise / suggestions regarding fuel efficiency.
I got a FE of 15.5 - 15.7 driving locally, mostly 2nd or 3rd gear with full Ac on . I thought this was ok.
But for long distance , mostly 2500 rpm and Ac on partially, I got 16.75 (710Km), 15.49 (515 km) and 18.29(1032km). Which seams less ( I was expecting 20+).
I spoke to SA , Ravindu Toyota, he says FE will increase only after 10K service till then nothing can be done. Do you agree to that.
Any suggestions to improve FE for my new Liva

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Old 18th January 2016, 13:23   #319
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Post re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMARTF View Post
I need your opinion / advise / suggestions regarding fuel efficiency.
I got a FE of 15.5 - 15.7 driving locally, mostly 2nd or 3rd gear with full Ac on . I thought this was ok.
But for long distance , mostly 2500 rpm and Ac on partially, I got 16.75 (710Km), 15.49 (515 km) and 18.29(1032km). Which seams less ( I was expecting 20+).
I spoke to SA , Ravindu Toyota, he says FE will increase only after 10K service till then nothing can be done. Do you agree to that.
Any suggestions to improve FE for my new Liva
It's been long since I did some mileage testing. But, since your post came in, I did a few mileage tests during my recent long trip to Dhanushkodi.

So, here are the results.

Results of tank full to tank full fills

Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!-actual.png

Mileage calculated based on instantaneous Mileage shown on MID at various speeds ( prone to errors )

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Things to Note
  • Attempted cruising speed of 120 kmph doesn't mean that I was on 120 kmph for the whole of the drive. It just means that if the road is safe and I can cruise at any speed, I tried to be on 120 kmph. So, for around 80% of the drive, I would have been in a speed of 100 - 120 kmph.
  • Similarly, in the case of attempted cruising speed of 100 kmph, for 80% of the time, I would have been cruising at a speed of 80-100 kmph.
  • Overtaking were all planned. ie, I didn't accelerate or brake hard near the vehicle in front. Instead, I build up speed from a distance and do a smooth and strong acceleration ( in the peak torque range of 1800-2400 rpms ) so that brake usage is very minimal.
  • For decelerating, instead of using the brakes, I normally take my foot off the pedal at a safe distance.
  • Gear shifting @ 15 kmph, 40 kmph, 60 kmph & 80 kmph on the highway
  • Ambient temperature was between 25 to 33 degree celsius for most part of the drive.
  • MID value was taken by maintaining a steady speed in a level road with a steady throttle position, and then noting down the value of the instantaneous mileage. And this is just to maintain the speed. When you accelerate hard in the peak torque range towards a speed, you will be getting an instantaneous mileage of around 4 kmpl to 6 kmpl. So, the more such situations, you get into, the more you loss on mileage.
  • Switching on the compressor had an effect of 4 kmpl on the MID. But, considering that compressor will be on for only 50% of the time AC is switched on, the effect would be around 2 kmpl when AC is ON.
  • The less speed you travel at, the more the effect of AC on mileage. for eg:-, a 2 kmpl effect on mileage @ a speed of 120 kmph can turn into 3 kmpl or 4 kmpl effect when you travel at a speed of 60 kmph
  • Difference in altitude between the start and stop point for both the long trips were around 800 meters. But, considering the distance covered ( around 500 kms ), this factor can be considered as negligible.
  • When you go down an incline, you will get better mileage when on the right gear without the use of clutch than putting the vehicle on neutral or on clutch.
  • Half clutch is never used by me. I always drive on the right gear. This is very easy to do on a diesel engine even at crawling speeds.
  • I always fill from BP, HP or Reliance. I've got bad experiences of measurement from Indianoil multiple times. With Shell, for some reason, I don't get the same mileage as that of BP/HP. Also, I feel that the fuel filter got spoiled after I started filling from Shell, Bannerghatta Road, Bangalore. The reason why I feel so is because I've many friends in Kochi who has done 1 lakh kms without fuel filter replacement. But, I had to replace mine at 72,000 kms ( the last 20,000 odd kms was run on Shell ). And a friend from Bangalore who uses Shell Bangalore consistently had to replace the fuel filter at 50,000 kms. So, I've reservations about the quality of fuel given by Shell.
  • Even while driving with AC off, I was driving with Windows closed and circulation mode set into fresh air mode, so that natural air comes into the cabin. Driving at high speeds with windows down is equivalent to driving with a parachute attached to your car.
  • When filling fuel, I always stop when the fuel is auto cut. I never fill it till the brim.
  • I've done very short bursts of 140 kmph to get away from bad drivers driving at my similar speed.
  • Tyre pressure was 32 psi on Nitrogen
  • For the first drive, I have assumed that the city mileage is 15 kmpl to calculate the mileage for the rest of the drive ( highway mileage )
  • The load was around 165 kgs (140 kgs in passenger cabin & 25 kgs in the boot)

My Suggestions
  • Try cruising at 100 kmph on your next drive with occasional bursts of 120 kmph
  • Use BP/HP pumps.
  • When filling full tank, ask them to stop at auto cut off.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 18th January 2016 at 15:18. Reason: Added as requested.
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Old 21st January 2016, 12:53   #320
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I consider that as my responsibility as a bhpian. Team-bhp has stood courageous against cheating by dealers.

Thank you Amalji, after your follow up, I got a phone call from a service manager at the dealership who basically just called back and defended everything that the service advisor said and charged for. He wanted to meet me but I saw no point in meeting him since he did not acknowledge that there was a problem in the first place.

Whats more surprising is how Toyota Kirloskar (not dealers) treats customers!

I had heard great things about Toyota's after sales support but honestly, it seems that all of that is just a myth not reality. After a whole bunch of lies and cheating from Espirit Toyota, I wrote to voc@toyota-kirloskar.co.in on Jan 5. All I received was an autoreply saying that they will get back to me, but there has been absolutely no contact from Toyota. After my initial email, I sent them a reminder on Jan 14 - that email did not even generate the autoreply, forget about anything else.

I am surprised that companies with such callous attitudes towards customers plan to survive in the future. I have dealt with multiple manufacturers including Mahindra, Maruti, KTM, Hyundai and none of them have been so apathetic towards customer complaints.


Any car lasts 1lakh kms without problems these days (my Dzire is at 1.3lakh kms), I think the whole thing about Toyota being trouble free and cheap doesn't hold any water!

Last edited by ff1609 : 21st January 2016 at 12:54.
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Old 21st January 2016, 13:11   #321
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Post Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
Thank you Amalji, after your follow up, I got a phone call from a service manager at the dealership who basically just called back and defended everything that the service advisor said and charged for. He wanted to meet me but I saw no point in meeting him since he did not acknowledge that there was a problem in the first place.
I got a call as well from the same guy. In the call, he was more interested in finding out who I am and what I do more than accepting the mistakes. Yes, he was trying to be defensive than trying to resolve the problem for the customer. I asked him that if he replies back to me, I'll put that reply in the same thread. He did reply back. But, he did not add several points that he told me when he spoke to me directly. It was a completely defensive email ( probably because he didn't want to expose his department in front of others )

Pasting the email below.

Quote:
Dear Sir,

Greetings for the day.

As per the telephonic discussion with you, we regret the inconvenience caused to you during your visit. We would like to provide you the below explanation for your queries:

Your Etios vehicle reported for routine periodic maintenance service 80,000 kms & Noise coming/occur at a speed of 80-90 KMPH.

Your vehicle reported for servicing at 84429 kms which was 4429kms excess driven. As per schedule engine oil needs to replace on every 10,000kms but excess driven upto 4429kms makes more wear and tear.

The life of clutch depends on its usage & Driving habits. As per Toyota, there is no maintenance schedule for changing the Clutch. Its life varies on its usage. The cost of Changing the clutch Part with Labour Appx 18,000 INR (Inclusive Taxes). In case of flywheel which depends on its condition costing Appx 27,000 INR additional.

The Cost for replacing the parts which includes Water Pump Rs 6187 + tax (Coolant compulsory Rs 800 + tax), Tensioner 7362+tax, Drive belt 2400 + tax and Labour extra.

Brake Cylinder Replacement is a necessary part to replace as its Safety related. Brake cylinder leakage will cause short brake pad life as well as prolong usage may lead to Brake Failure.

The estimate(approx) given to you by service advisor was verbal which was provided after inspection of your vehicle by our technical team.

Hope we have clarified your queries and Thanks for your understanding on the same. We assure you best of services always and for any further assistance or clarification feel free to be in touch with us.

We are dedicated to provide all our customers with our best services and do take this opportunity to review and place our systems in position so as to avoid recurrence of such incidents in the future.

Warm Regards,

Nabeel Ahmed
Sr.Service Manager
Espirit Toyota, Noida.
Spirited Auto Cars(I) Limited,
He didn't touch on the following points in the email ( very conveniently ).
  • The so called lubrication for engine mounts
  • The labour charge for brake pad replacements
  • The labour charge for door lubrication
  • The fact that door lubrication was not done

and many others. He was just trying to save his department in front of his manager rather than genuinely try and solve the customer's concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
Whats more surprising is how Toyota Kirloskar (not dealers) treats customers!

I had heard great things about Toyota's after sales support but honestly, it seems that all of that is just a myth not reality. After a whole bunch of lies and cheating from Espirit Toyota, I wrote to voc@toyota-kirloskar.co.in on Jan 5. All I received was an autoreply saying that they will get back to me, but there has been absolutely no contact from Toyota. After my initial email, I sent them a reminder on Jan 14 - that email did not even generate the autoreply, forget about anything else.

I am surprised that companies with such callous attitudes towards customers plan to survive in the future. I have dealt with multiple manufacturers including Mahindra, Maruti, KTM, Hyundai and none of them have been so apathetic towards customer complaints.
Sadly in your case, the response time has been plain pathetic from Toyota. I had tried escalation once before regarding a SMILES pack and the problem got resolved within minutes. Everyone from Nippon called me up and took extra effort to resolve it. But, their, the complaint was requested through Toyota toll free number, not email.

In your case, I sent an email to Toyota on January 9th 2016.
And I got a response to the email on January 20th 2016 ( 11 days response time ! )

Quote:
Dear Mr. Amal,

We acknowledge with thanks for the receipt of your mail.

You will receive a call shortly from us to appraise you on the status of your concern.

You can also contact us on below mentioned numbers any time.

Regards,
Mujaheed
*************************************************
Customer Relations Division
TOYOTA KIRLOSKAR MOTOR PVT. LTD
Tel.No.: - +91 80 - 6629 3001
Toll Free No.: 1800 425 0001
Fax No.: - +91 80 - 6637 1401
email:- voc@toyota-kirloskar.co.in
website:- www.toyotabharat.com
************************************************** *
Quote:
Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
Any car lasts 1lakh kms without problems these days (my Dzire is at 1.3lakh kms), I think the whole thing about Toyota being trouble free and cheap doesn't hold any water!
Toyota is normally a 3-4 lakhs car. For people who run just 1 lakh kms, it doesn't add much value other than probably the resale and maintenance cost during ownership.

Last edited by amalji : 21st January 2016 at 13:19.
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Old 21st January 2016, 15:15   #322
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
In your case, I sent an email to Toyota on January 9th 2016.
And I got a response to the email on January 20th 2016 ( 11 days response
Thanks for writing to toyota on my behalf, but honestly the response you got after 11 days also says nothing

I think I should try and contact Toyota India through their social media pages or write to some of their higher ups. Espirit must mend their ways or shut shop - from the tone of Nabeel's response anyone can see that they simply want to defend and justify what they do without listening to the customer.
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Old 21st January 2016, 15:24   #323
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Default Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post


He didn't touch on the following points in the email ( very conveniently ).
  • The so called lubrication for engine mounts
  • The labour charge for brake pad replacements
  • The labour charge for door lubrication
  • The fact that door lubrication was not done
Can you please share his email address with me?
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Old 21st January 2016, 15:34   #324
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Post Re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : At 4 years and 92,000 kms

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Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
Can you please share his email address with me?
Added cc to your email address on the original email thread. You can get the email address from there.
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Old 27th January 2016, 10:11   #325
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Post re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

Reference email from @ff1609 sent to my personal id.

Quote:
Thank you for all the emails.

Someone called Nabeel Ahmad called me from Espirit Toyota, he did not even seem to have read my email. He said, "Sir it seems that you have taken a quote for break pad replacement from Nippon toyota and they have quoted Rs. 204 while we have charged about 800. Let me explain, we charged you over 800 because brake pad replacement includes a lot of work and also involves brake fluid change."

I told him, brake fluid has not been replaced and please stop scamming people by telling them that you need to replace the fluid for changing brake pads, I can do it myself and I know how little effort it takes.

There was no conversation on any of the other items, he was adamant that he wanted to meet me - I have not met him yet!
@Faizal - I read through your old email again and found additional discrepancies with regards to the way your vehicle was serviced.

My 80,000 kms service for reference - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3805120
  1. Brake fluid is supposed to be changed every 40,000 kms. Refer my 80,000 kms service update in the link mentioned above. This was not changed as per your service bill.
  2. There is no additional labour cost for brake fluid change. This is included in the standard service labour cost.
  3. When Nabeel talked to me over phone, he agreed that brake pad replacement is a 30 minutes job and that it is normally charged 200 INR as labour. He mentioned that there were other work and that's why the high labour. I asked him to put these details in email. But, strangely the email didn't have any of these details.

And there is no reply from either Toyota or the dealer after my last email sent to them on 21st January 2016.

Last edited by amalji : 27th January 2016 at 10:34.
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Old 27th January 2016, 17:37   #326
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Default re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Reference email from @ff1609 sent to my personal id.

He mentioned that there were other work and that's why the high labour. I asked him to put these details in email. But, strangely the email didn't have any of these details.
And there is no reply from either Toyota or the dealer after my last email sent to them on 21st January 2016.
Isn't it true that Toyota workshops are covered by CCTV.
Lets have them show us a video of everything including what 'extra' work was done on the brakes. I would not be surprised if the brake pads were not replaced at all!

I am also sure that the solution of replacing water pump, tensioner and belt is also a silver bullet and they did no diagnosis at all (they kept the car overnight citing that they needed time to diagnose the reason behind this noise at 80-85km/h in 5th and 60-65km/h in 4th) I had asked them to check if the noise was related to the intercooler but anyway they decided its the waterpump etc.

So yeah, I am going to ask for the video.
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Old 27th January 2016, 23:38   #327
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Default re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

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Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
...I would not be surprised if the brake pads were not replaced at all!...
This can be tested by measuring the "new" brake pads on your car with another brand new piece. In such a short time / distance after your car's service, the difference can't be all that much.

But you should be with the car when they try this out, if you want to know the fact.
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Old 29th January 2016, 11:27   #328
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Default re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

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Originally Posted by ff1609 View Post
So yeah, I am going to ask for the video.
Forget these, try emailing naomi_ishii@toyota-kirloskar.co.in and see the magic!
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Old 1st March 2016, 07:29   #329
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Default re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
For the first drive, I have assumed that the city mileage is 15 kmpl to calculate the mileage for the rest of the drive ( highway mileage )
Hi Amalji, I get around 18 kmpl in my etios (TP 34 - bad roads around my home, and a driving style like yours), and about 21/22 kmpl on the highways (TP 32, and smooth style of driving). The next time you plan a trip, would you please try a tank-to-tank method to calculate?

It'd be great to get stats from you because as I read, I realize your driving style is inclined to get better economy than mine. Oh and I am somewhere about 41K kms on the odo.
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Old 18th April 2016, 13:25   #330
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Default re: Toyota Etios Diesel VD Ownership Report. EDIT : 100,000 km up!

Hi guys,

My Liva VD just crossed 14k kms and just completed a short trip of 400 kms yesterday. The mileage came out to approx 15-16 kpl with 70% highway & 30% city driving. Car was fully loaded with 4 pax & luggage. Highway speeds were usual 80-90 with usual blasts of 100 kph. I really a unable to fathom why isn't the mileage improving? The third service just got done too.

I really want to experiment with a better oil & find out. Keen on the Fully Synthetic Toyota offers & the Mobil Delvac. Grades are identical, the Delvac offers more range actually(5W40 compared to Toyotas 5W30). What do you reckon?

Inputs will be appreciated, as always.
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