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Old 9th November 2012, 19:30   #46
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Sad to see the damage. Things happen, its important to take lessons and move forward. While the damage appears small, if you want to restore it to original shape the total expense would be around 4-5K.

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Luckily the bumper is strong thus the only the damage caused is chipped paint and broken chrome strip.
It doesn't include cost for clips/sealant to fix new chrome strip. That may cost another 1100. If you get the bumper fully painted, that may cost around 1500-2000K.

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The chrome strip is Rs 1100 + tax for one piece (rear bumper).
If other work arounds suggested by fellow BHPians are good enough you may be able to save on above expenses.
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Old 9th November 2012, 20:49   #47
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Sad to see the damage. Things happen, its important to take lessons and move forward. While the damage appears small, if you want to restore it to original shape the total expense would be around 4-5K.
I am sure a fellow car lover will understand the pain. I used Formula 1 scratch out and Eagle wax on that area today morning. It's smoother to touch now and doesn't appear too bad from a distance. Still I have decided to get it fixed. The cost for getting the entire bumper painted is ~Rs 3500. The body shop guy is confident that painting 1/3rd of the bumper will work as the colour has been maintained well and there is hardly any fading. As per him the difference in shade will be negligible and in fact his painter thinks there won't be any difference at all.

Chrome strip is becoming a pain as it is not available in Noida and Oberoi cars doesn't have it in stock. They will have to order it and it might take 7-10 days for them to procure it. I am planning to try Karol Bagh market tomorrow. I hope I find it there. Moreover, I have an urge to try DIY with Bronzo Scuro aerosol because if it doesn't work, I always have the Body shop as back up. Another surprising point is that the cost of painting between TASS and street market is Nil. In fact, some people are quoting higher cost than TASS. I hope TASS guys are not keeping some cost heads as surprise items.

Due to this scratch, Crusoe is going to miss Sunday's T-BHP meet and Neil will attend its first T-BHP meet.
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Old 9th November 2012, 21:35   #48
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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I am sure a fellow car lover will understand the pain. I used Formula 1 scratch out and Eagle wax on that area today morning. It's smoother to touch now and doesn't appear too bad from a distance. Still I have decided to get it fixed. The cost for getting the entire bumper painted is ~Rs 3500. The body shop guy is confident that painting 1/3rd of the bumper will work as the colour has been maintained well and there is hardly any fading. As per him the difference in shade will be negligible and in fact his painter thinks there won't be any difference at all.

Chrome strip is becoming a pain as it is not available in Noida and Oberoi cars doesn't have it in stock. They will have to order it and it might take 7-10 days for them to procure it. I am planning to try Karol Bagh market tomorrow. I hope I find it there. Moreover, I have an urge to try DIY with Bronzo Scuro aerosol because if it doesn't work, I always have the Body shop as back up. Another surprising point is that the cost of painting between TASS and street market is Nil. In fact, some people are quoting higher cost than TASS. I hope TASS guys are not keeping some cost heads as surprise items.

Due to this scratch, Crusoe is going to miss Sunday's T-BHP meet and Neil will attend its first T-BHP meet.
Please do not use the Aerosol Paint on the metal parts if the scratch is deep and the bare metal is showing. In your case as you say bumper, it should be ok. Any moisture getting through with the spray to the metal can cause rusting.

Just a friendly word of caution.
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Old 10th November 2012, 01:00   #49
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Please do not use the Aerosol Paint on the metal parts if the scratch is deep and the bare metal is showing. In your case as you say bumper, it should be ok. Any moisture getting through with the spray to the metal can cause rusting.

Just a friendly word of caution.
Thanks nkrishnap! I wasn't aware about the potential rusting issue with Aerosol sprays. This time it is the bumper but I was planning to take one for the Punto as well. It has greater risk of scratches as my would be wifey is learning to drive on it. I will now be more careful about using them. Not sure how much things have changed but Fiats have a notorious record when it comes to rusting.
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Old 12th December 2012, 14:33   #50
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Update - Second service done at 14,445 KMs

In a little over 10 months, I have almost reached the 15K milestone (just 150 KMs away from it). Last week (Dec 03, 2012), I got the second service done. One can see a genuine lack of interest in SAs at Oberoi Noida. They are very prompt in cross selling anti-rust coat and teflon however, when it comes to resolving customer's issues they can only appear helpless.

The key issues with the car are:
  • AirBag failure alarm - It's been there for months now. Battery is the culprit but they are just wasting time in replacing it. First they kept the battery for 3 days for testing and said everything is fine. During the second service the Code-error light came on along with Airbag failure. SA finally acknowledge that battery is faulty but they can't arrange a replacement battery. It's been a week since service and they still haven't been able to procure the battery. The reason I can't take it up directly with Exide is that the car was purchased in Feb 12 but the battery was manufactured in May 11 so, Fiat has to arrange the warranty issue.
  • Hard clutch - I complained about hard clutch during my last visit for battery related issue. These guys did something post which the clutch is as hard as it used to be and it has a new issue. There is a "katt" sound when the play area ends and the clutch starts getting depressed (hope I am able to explain it). It's is like a nut or something resisting the clutch. It's a minor noise but irritating for me as I believe in keeping my car free from all such niggles. This resistance can be felt as well. It is still there post the service and all they do is oil it and say it's fine. I would check with some fellow BHPian that owns a T-jet to confirm whether this is normal or I need to push Fiat. I have a Punto as well and it has a super light clutch.
  • Beige paint of cup holder is wearing off. - This started within a couple of months of purchase and I reported this during the first service too. The reason is unknown as I don't smoke and don't even keep the ashtray there. The cup holders have patches of black plastic visible. It has been over 6 months and Oberoi still doesn't have the beige paint required to rectify it.

There were some other minor niggles too like rattling of the ECU cover (the one on dash where OBD is connected), boot dampeners making noise, etc. These are more or less rectified. After the service, the temperature reading on ACC started blinking. The issue got rectified on its own. Blue&Me has stopped recognising the USB and probably needs a reset, will get it done when I again take the car for battery replacement.

The total service cost was 7K (5K for service and 2K for anti-rust). The entry to the basement parking in my apartment has extremely steep gradient so, the car does scrape once in a while. An additional layer of coat will not hurt and it also comes with 5 years warranty along with touch up every 6 months. Selling Selenia only in 4L can seems like a scam to me. The car needs 3.2 L the remaining .8 is useless. I now have more than 1.5 L with me as I got the oil changed during first service too.

It's really sad that experience of owning such a wonderful car is spoiled by such minor niggles. Battery has nothing to do with the car's quality but due to the faulty battery, it has been giving all sorts of alarms (oh, I forgot to mention Low Fuel warning when I had a tank full of petrol )

Another challenge I see with owning a Fiat is that one can not trust the SAs to do the job properly. Thus for a person like me (no time during weekdays and too many prior commitments during weekends) it is a tough car to get serviced. With my Santro, I used to just list all the issues to SA over phone and he used to get the car picked from my office and deliver it after service. I was extremely satisfied with their service. With Fiat, I have to stand there else the work will not be done properly.

Goodyear NCT 5 seems to be wearing very fast. I have lost 65% thread within 15K kms. I lodged a complaint but Goodyear guys say it's normal. Will drive for some more time and get the tyres changed to probable Bridgestone MY 01.

Now the Kitna Deti Hai factor, fuel efficiency has improved after the second service, I am constantly getting 11.5-12 KMPL within Delhi-NCR. I am happy as long as the figure is in double digits.

Niggles aside, this car drives like a dream. No matter how much I want to take the Punto out for drives (it is a diesel), I always end up taking Crusoe (T-jet) out. The turbo whine is music to my ears and compensates for the horrible speakers.

Here's the scanned copy of the bill. Will be glad to answer any queries that fellow BHPians might have. Just to sum up - It's a great car and I absolutely love it. I just wish I could find SAs that were enthusiastic about maintaining the car. The guys at Oberoi never demonstrate the necessary level enthusiasm or commitment.

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-20121211467_2.jpg

Last edited by Biraj : 12th December 2012 at 14:41.
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Old 13th December 2012, 11:47   #51
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Is Oberoi Motors taking up Fiat dealership? If no, then the attitude service is expected but definitely not acceptable. If they are taking up the dealership, still the attitude shown is not acceptable.
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Old 13th December 2012, 13:19   #52
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Is Oberoi Motors taking up Fiat dealership? If no, then the attitude service is expected but definitely not acceptable. If they are taking up the dealership, still the attitude shown is not acceptable.
Oberoi is a key dealer for Fiat in North. The Fiat Caffe in Delhi is also owned by Oberoi. They are in process of converting their showroom and service center in Sector 63, Noida to Fiat exclusive center. The one planned in Okhla will also be set up by Oberoi. Being a large and key partner for Fiat, they don't care much and a handful of T-jets is least likely to be their concern.

On a separate note, I wonder what Fiat does with all the feedback it collects through the follow-up surveys. I am a market researcher and have conducted many customer satisfaction studies in the past. Most clients ask their research service provider to raise an alert if the customer has given an extremely negative rating or mentioned a serious concern. With Fiat, I haven't noticed their associates even trying to understand what one says and all they are looking for is a number (for the rating). Those statements "I will pass on your feedback to the concerned team" are just mere statements. I even went to the website to register my dissatisfaction with Oberoi but there hasn't been any follow-up by Fiat.

There can never be better promotion or sales campaign than making your customers, your brand managers. Fiat has been blessed with such customers. Most of their sales happen due to people like us convincing our friends and colleagues. If Fiat fails to keep even the most ardent of Fiat fans satisfied then, launching great products will also mean nothing.
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Old 13th December 2012, 15:59   #53
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

That is quite a bit of mileage you have clocked. My car has run just 8700km. What is interesting to note is that your car is delivering better city efficiency numbers than my car. I would attribute this to much better roads you have in your parts. In Bangalore, I have to deal with no roads and a speed breaker every 500 meters.

Isn't there any other service center you can approach even if it is out of the way? It will be better to approach a more capable service center than have Oberoi destroy the car.

One thing is very clear. The electronics is this car are very sensitive. Any voltage fluctuations seem to wreak havoc with the cars electrical system. It is time you blasted Oberoi and get the battery changed. Worse case scenario, just get a new battery installed from a reliable vendor. I know it will be from your pocket but this should bring an end to all the weird electrical behavior.

I have faced a lot of weird behavior from the electrical system and it did indicate a weak battery. More of this documented in my ownership thread. I had brought this to the notice of the SA when the car went in for scheduled inspection. I had told him to check the battery. The battery was alright but I did notice some electrical relay which was replaced when I received the bill and I had not asked for anything to be replaced. I did not get a chance to check what this relay was and why it was replaced. I am assuming it helped in some way as I never faced a repeat of all the weird electrical behavior I was facing like the headlamps suddenly going out and coming back on.

As for the clutch noise you are hearing, it does not exist and is not normal. There is not katt sound reported by the few T Jet owners on this forum. A hard clutch might require complete replacement of clutch fluid to start with and if the problem continues, a replacement of the clutch unit itself.

The diesel Grande Punto's have a lighter clutch than the T Jet.

As for the ACC temperature blinking, this happens every time on my car when I turn off the AC alone, not the entire ACC. In this scenario, the blinking is not a malfunction. It blinks for sometime and stops. The blinking is an indication to tell you that the system can no longer maintain the set temperature. This is explained in the car manual too. If there is blinking in other scenarios, then you have a problem.

Try reformatting your pen drive and check if it helps.

Minor niggles are one of the reasons why Fiat cars don't sell well. You can't have these niggles any more, not in a modern car.

About the low fuel warning alert showing when the tank is full, I have faced a slightly different issue though it is no serious concern. I don't plan on having it even looked at as it has occurred only twice. You must have observed how the temperature and fuel readings work. On a warm engine, when you turn on the ignition, the needles go to their positions quickly. I had stalled the car one day and upon restarting, the temperature level indicated cold. It did not go to the middle quickly which is where it was. It crawled up slowly and it took a couple of kms before it reached the level where it originally was. I have faced this only twice.

The 65% wear on the tires are not a good sign unless you are driving on really bad roads which I doubt you are. Surprising for a tire that is a hard compound.

Fiat are continuing their trend of not being bothered about the Indian market. An exact repeat of their previous stint in India. Your experience at the service center and interacting with folk from Fiat India for customer surveys, you have seen the kind of people who work in the company and how they behave. Should be no surprise why their sales are so bad. I too have met a couple of folk from Fiat India when they had a presentation for the updated 2012 cars. Though they spoke well and gave a ton a reassurance, I don't see any of that in the real world. One of the chaps who came up on the stage could barely pronounce anything. With chaps like these on the top, I see no hope. However, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things (The Shawshank Redemption) and I hope there is a sea change at how Fiat India operate, sell cars and take care of their customers.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 13th December 2012 at 16:17.
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Old 13th December 2012, 20:19   #54
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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That is quite a bit of mileage you have clocked. My car has run just 8700km. What is interesting to note is that your car is delivering better city efficiency numbers than my car.
Thanks Sandeep, this car is addictive. It's difficult not to drive it. The Punto keeps complaining as it has done only 1500 KMs in 3 months despite being a diesel. I have never had any complaints with the fuel efficiency. You are right about the Delhi/Noida roads but I cross a section (NH 24) that probably has the worst traffic in NCR. The saving grace is that I work from 12PM-11PM so, don't face much traffic (in relative terms).

Quote:
Isn't there any other service center you can approach even if it is out of the way? It will be better to approach a more capable service center than have Oberoi destroy the car.
I wish there was one. I am even willing to drive 50 KMs if it promises to offer a better service experience. People have mentioned good stuff about Mr. O P Sharma at Him Motors. I went there but (my personal opinion) he seemed like a man on verge of retirement who has seen it all and there's nothing more to prove or anyone to impress. Bottom-line - He will work when he wants to and as much as he wants to.

Quote:
As for the clutch noise you are hearing, it does not exist and is not normal. There is not katt sound reported by the few T Jet owners on this forum. A hard clutch might require complete replacement of clutch fluid to start with and if the problem continues, a replacement of the clutch unit itself.
I try not to get too assertive with the SAs and let them do the correct thing however, these guys are taking my patience for granted. I guess being pushy with them will work better. Considering the attitude with which these guys work, their intention seems to push things till warranty gets over and then suggest replacements.

Quote:
If there is blinking in other scenarios, then you have a problem.
This took place while AC was on. The SA recommended removing the negative terminal from battery for 15 minutes and the issue will be resolved. Weirdly enough the AC stopped blinking as soon as the Airbag failure alarm returned. I guess the AC relay has some role to play in all this and I will ask them to check it.

Quote:
You must have observed how the temperature and fuel readings work. On a warm engine, when you turn on the ignition, the needles go to their positions quickly. I had stalled the car one day and upon restarting, the temperature level indicated cold. It did not go to the middle quickly which is where it was. It crawled up slowly and it took a couple of kms before it reached the level where it originally was. I have faced this only twice.
To be honest, this has been a normal occurrence in my car probably due to the low night temperatures in Delhi. I usually idle it for 1 minute but it takes about 2 KMs before the temperature reaches normal levels. I try not to accelerate during that period and keep the RPM below 1500.

Quote:
The 65% wear on the tires are not a good sign unless you are driving on really bad roads which I doubt you are. Surprising for a tire that is a hard compound.
Even the Goodyear guy quoted the average life of tyres to be 22-25K KMs thus, they find it ok. I will give the replacement another shot (Post update from Karthikk )

Quote:
However, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things (The Shawshank Redemption) and I hope there is a sea change at how Fiat India operate, sell cars and take care of their customers.
Very well put! It pains to see cars much inferior to ours being sold at premium and that too in high numbers. If only Fiat would get out of their slumber and pay attention to improving their customer satisfaction (here I mean satisfaction with product and service, not passion about brand). Though I appreciate their sticking to India and not abandoning it like many other brands did, I still believe they are capable of much better stuff than this. Let's keep the hope alive and enjoy these amazing machines.
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Old 13th December 2012, 22:34   #55
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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I try not to get too assertive with the SAs and let them do the correct thing however, these guys are taking my patience for granted.
This would be the right approach. We all do this. Shouting does not really fix things in most cases. However; you can't let them take you for granted. Next time around, it is better to be a little firm and tell them on their faces that they are trying to push for the warranty to expire so that you have to pay for parts and that is not going to work.

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Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
This took place while AC was on.
This is a problem.

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Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
To be honest, this has been a normal occurrence in my car probably due to the low night temperatures in Delhi.
It should not.

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Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
I usually idle it for 1 minute
There is no need. Driving away immediately after starting up the car is a faster way to bring the engine up to optimum temperature. The faster the engine reaches its optimum temperature, the more efficient it will be. Idling it for a minute is just going to sip more gas as the engine will take longer to reach operating temperature.

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but it takes about 2 KMs before the temperature reaches normal levels. I try not to accelerate during that period and keep the RPM below 1500.
A little longer distance for me on a cold morning. This practice is good.

As I had mentioned earlier, the root cause for all electrical problems could be the fluctuating voltages from the weak battery. Sort out the battery first and then lets see if the issues repeat.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 13th December 2012 at 22:36.
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Old 17th December 2012, 23:46   #56
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
As I had mentioned earlier, the root cause for all electrical problems could be the fluctuating voltages from the weak battery. Sort out the battery first and then lets see if the issues repeat.
Finally the battery has been changed under warranty and with it, all the weird alarms seem to have gone for good. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that they don't return soon.

The clutch issue has also been rectified. The noise was due to a loose nut/joint in the clutch pedal. It's working fine now. Even the USB is back in action.

I checked the temp gauge and these guys didn't find anything abnormal. As per them the time taken to heat up is normal and they have noticed it in all other cars too. I verified this with another guy who had to come to get his T-jet serviced. Will still keep an eye on this.

Took Crusoe out for a spin on Greater Noida expressway along with fellow BHPian @Jasondavidbyrne on Sunday and clicked some pics. Will upload the pics once I receive them from Jason. Till then, let me post one of my personal favourites taken from my cam (Sony HX 100V).

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-crusoe.jpg
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Old 18th December 2012, 00:21   #57
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

So all good with the Crusoe finally , glad that all the issues were sorted out and you both are having fun once again. The airbag failure messages are an indication of battery going weak, in my Linea i even used to get low fuel beeps with more than half a tank.

I dont know if its the angle of the pic but is the left side running board damaged? I hope not.
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Old 18th December 2012, 00:52   #58
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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So all good with the Crusoe finally , glad that all the issues were sorted out and you both are having fun once again. The airbag failure messages are an indication of battery going weak, in my Linea i even used to get low fuel beeps with more than half a tank.

I dont know if its the angle of the pic but is the left side running board damaged? I hope not.
Thanks coolboy007, at this point I am just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping I don't see those dreaded messages again. I will watch out for these signs and if they don't return in 15 days, will start celebrating.
You almost gave me a heart-attack - No, it's not damaged. It's reflection of the road and boundary of the flyover. There is a ding on left front door (near the latch), it was put by someone who wanted to park too close to Crusoe but not mind her/his doors. There is a deep scratch on the bonnet (just above left headlamp), no clue how and why that was put.
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Old 18th December 2012, 01:04   #59
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Thanks coolboy007, at this point I am just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping I don't see those dreaded messages again. I will watch out for these signs and if they don't return in 15 days
Dont worry, they wont come back now, Linea's system goes topsy turvy if it doesnt get sufficient juice from the battery, once its changed, everything turns normal.

Quote:
You almost gave me a heart-attack - No, it's not damaged. It's reflection of the road and boundary of the flyover. There is a ding on left front door (near the latch), it was put by someone who wanted to park too close to
Am sorry , glad that its not, mine was damaged recently thanks to some drunkards on bike so maybe am imagining things.
Regarding small dings here n there, i guess we need to learn to live with it in NCR. People here dont care about other's car, be it slamming doors or scraping bumpers.
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Old 17th January 2013, 00:00   #60
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Today, on 16th January Cursoe has completed 16,000 KMs.

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Things are fine after the second service. It's a welcome relief to not see those "Airbag failure" alarms. The tyres are beginning to cause irritation with the excessive noise and might get changed soon (Vitamin M permitted).

The spot that I repaired on rear bumper, got hit again. This time inside a car parking and that too at one of the busier markets in Delhi (Def col). Two hits at exactly the same spot. Will get it rectified within the next few weeks.

Rest, it still moves like a dream. Everything is forgotten once the turbo kicks in and the only whine that remains is the turbo whine.

Here are some pics of Crusoe courtesy friend and fellow BHPian - Jasondavidbyrne.


All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07430.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07434.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07437.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07438.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07444.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07445.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07447.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07456.jpg

All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-dsc07465.jpg
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